Seabourn should step up with Quest

[kjbacon]

When I boarded Quest as a first time SB cruiser in July, I was disappointed in some of the service aspects. The ship was about two thirds full. When the second leg of our trip started in August with a full ship, the little disappointments became huge disappointments.

 

You don’t have to be a mathematical genius to figure out that the short staffing with inexperienced personnel becomes more pronounced when there are more passengers.

 

The subsequent live from posts on the Quest are similar to mine with describing both the good and the bad experiences but clearly, the short staffing only continues. Like me, the current posters are sometimes chided that they have a bad attitude or did not handle the problems on the Quest the right way.

 

It is my opinion that the attitude that needs to be questioned is Seabourn’s. Further, the responsibility of how to handle the ongoing problems on Quest belongs to Seabourn.

 

That ship is a service mess. And Seabourn knows it. They are, however, continuing to try to sell the remainder of the cabins on the next 2 sailings when they are not staffed enough to be able to service the number of passengers that they have now. And that says it all about Seabourn’s attitude and how they are handling the problems on Quest.

[AngloSaxonCelt]

Luckily, we are not experiencing a staffing issue on “Venture”. Nonetheless, due to the ship being very new, the staff is also new and subsequently not quite in sync with the routines. I must say they are trying very hard to make our experience the best they can. Being on a such wonderful ship certainly helps as well. I’m having a great time…👍

[adolfo2]

2 hours ago, kjbacon said:

They are, however, continuing to try to sell the remainder of the cabins on the next 2 sailings when they are not staffed enough to be able to service the number of passengers that they have now. 

I agree w/you BUT it's typical of all the cruise lines these days. They complain of insufficient staffing levels yet insist on filling the ships (often at huge, last-minute discounts) with service & staff suffering the ramifications!

 

Higher fares & an inferior experience is not a recipe for success. 

[SLSD]

Isn't it possible that the short staffing may be partially due to a certain amount of financial distress on the part of Carnival, the parent company of Seabourn?  On one of these threads I read that one passenger was told that ships had received a directive to reduce stockpiles of provisions.  Perhaps the cost cutting is of necessity as is the need to fill the ships even at discounted prices if necessary.  I have no doubt that hiring employees is difficult worldwide, but perhaps that is not the whole picture.  

 

Edited to add:  And then. you have the fact that staff continue to be sidelined by Covid.  from time to time.  

Edited October 7, 2022 by SLSD

[kjbacon]

All of these posts offer helpful insights and thoughts. I’m not sure how much financial trouble SB is in right now but they are only setting themselves up for worse. 
 

They had no problem charging us for our 38 night cruise in the Wintergarden suite and also had no problem letting us deal with absurd waits every day to order breakfast that was more often than not incorrect and or unpresentable. That is but one example of way too many.

 

There were so many mess ups on our cruise that we had to work to find the positives and yes, I am well aware that these are first world problems. But I’m also well aware that we are comparing SB to luxury cruise lines as opposed to a Motel 6. The fact is that I went easy on SB in my live from thread.

 

I am finding myself more put out by this as time goes by and they continue to provide substandard service for the same price to the guests. At the time, we figured that these things can happen and ok, we pulled the short SB straw. Now, it is clear that SB is making a daily decision to shortchange their guests. 

[cruisr]

The cruise fares should be cut commiserate with the product delivered.  To be charging the per diems they charge the product is not being delivered.  Seabourn corporate does not seem to care.  If they did these problems would not be consistently reported.

[SLSD]

1 hour ago, kjbacon said:

 

 

I am finding myself more put out by this as time goes by and they continue to provide substandard service for the same price to the guests. At the time, we figured that these things can happen and ok, we pulled the short SB straw. Now, it is clear that SB is making a daily decision to shortchange their guests. 

I don't blame you at all for being disappointed and chagrined.  We have never opted for a Wintergarten Suite, but if we had, and had substandard service, we would be quite disappointed as well.  I am not making any excuses for SB in spite of all the financial distress and Covid issues.  It's a difficult time for cruising which is one reason we are sitting out.  

 

Instead of coming to the conclusion that Seabourn does not care, I am more likely to say that the company is in distress and a few score of disgruntled passengers seems like the least of their troubles. And yes, I realize it could be a downward spiral.  At the same time we hear that Encore, Ovation, and Venture are doing ok.  

 

All of this makes me think that the issue is resources:  staff, provisions---both of which require financial backing to provide.   Perhaps Quest should not have been put back into service.  

Edited October 7, 2022 by SLSD

[Viking1966]

5 hours ago, kjbacon said:

All of these posts offer helpful insights and thoughts. I’m not sure how much financial trouble SB is in right now but they are only setting themselves up for worse. 
 

They had no problem charging us for our 38 night cruise in the Wintergarden suite and also had no problem letting us deal with absurd waits every day to order breakfast that was more often than not incorrect and or unpresentable. That is but one example of way too many.

 

There were so many mess ups on our cruise that we had to work to find the positives and yes, I am well aware that these are first world problems. But I’m also well aware that we are comparing SB to luxury cruise lines as opposed to a Motel 6. The fact is that I went easy on SB in my live from thread.

 

I am finding myself more put out by this as time goes by and they continue to provide substandard service for the same price to the guests. At the time, we figured that these things can happen and ok, we pulled the short SB straw. Now, it is clear that SB is making a daily decision to shortchange their guests. 

You can vote with your wallet, you have other options. 

[travel4b]

5 hours ago, kjbacon said:

All of these posts offer helpful insights and thoughts. I’m not sure how much financial trouble SB is in right now but they are only setting themselves up for worse. 
 

They had no problem charging us for our 38 night cruise in the Wintergarden suite and also had no problem letting us deal with absurd waits every day to order breakfast that was more often than not incorrect and or unpresentable. That is but one example of way too many.

 

There were so many mess ups on our cruise that we had to work to find the positives and yes, I am well aware that these are first world problems. But I’m also well aware that we are comparing SB to luxury cruise lines as opposed to a Motel 6. The fact is that I went easy on SB in my live from thread.

 

I am finding myself more put out by this as time goes by and they continue to provide substandard service for the same price to the guests. At the time, we figured that these things can happen and ok, we pulled the short SB straw. Now, it is clear that SB is making a daily decision to shortchange their guests. 

Yes, it’s disappointing - to say the least - to continue to read about the shortcomings aboard Quest in the almost six weeks since we disembarked in Montreal.  What a mess!

[Sailingagain123]

I am concerned.  We have signed up for a three month trip on the Quest starting in early January. I spoke with our travel agent today. She is going to try and find out if any changes are in the works. Otherwise, we may cancel. It’s a lot of money to spend to be unhappy.

 

[Captainlyle]

Let me say everyone has made legitimate complaints.Bottom line Seabourn (Carnival) is in dire financial straits,and to be honest with you in my opinion they have less then a 40% chance of surviving.They are leveraged to tune of $120,000,000 every month.True there are several products they offer but still that’s a lot of money.I believe they know what’s going on with Quest however they don’t have means to resolve it.I am a Diamond Elite member with over 900 nights  and I am heartbroken to think they may not make it.I too where on a 72 night cruise in a Wintergarden suite and the bottom line it just wasn’t worth It have canceled all my future cruises until that time I see some positive signs of  they returning to SEABOURN we love.

 

PS .It was on the Quest Venice to New York.

 

[Covepointcruiser]

Correct me if I am wrong but your level of suite on Seabourn does not give you a better experience.   Every passenger is supposed to be treated the same.    We have been in higher level suites on Seabourn and did not see the value.   There was no difference in the service we received.   The extra bathroom was the best aspect and the extra room was not needed.    We had one stewardess, the same room service menu, the same dining room experience so if you expect more from your Wintergarten Suite you will be always disappointed.   We have had three cruises on Seabourn since the restart and have had excellent service.    Did not use room service so I can’t comment on this.

[SLSD]

27 minutes ago, Covepointcruiser said:

Correct me if I am wrong but your level of suite on Seabourn does not give you a better experience.   Every passenger is supposed to be treated the same.    We have been in higher level suites on Seabourn and did not see the value.   There was no difference in the service we received.   The extra bathroom was the best aspect and the extra room was not needed.    We had one stewardess, the same room service menu, the same dining room experience so if you expect more from your Wintergarten Suite you will be always disappointed.   We have had three cruises on Seabourn since the restart and have had excellent service.    Did not use room service so I can’t comment on this.

We have been so satisfied with a regular veranda suite for as long as 3 weeks that we would never opt to pay more for larger quarters.  I recognize that others see this differently---but I had always assumed that service was the same wherever you were on the ship.  

[kjbacon]

13 hours ago, Covepointcruiser said:

Correct me if I am wrong but your level of suite on Seabourn does not give you a better experience.   Every passenger is supposed to be treated the same.    We have been in higher level suites on Seabourn and did not see the value.   There was no difference in the service we received.   The extra bathroom was the best aspect and the extra room was not needed.    We had one stewardess, the same room service menu, the same dining room experience so if you expect more from your Wintergarten Suite you will be always disappointed.   We have had three cruises on Seabourn since the restart and have had excellent service.    Did not use room service so I can’t comment on this.

You are not wrong. There are basically no perks on SB for a named suite which is different than any other line.

[SLSD]

20 minutes ago, kjbacon said:

You are not wrong. There are basically no perks on SB for a named suite which is different than any other line.

And this. very thing is something I have always appreciated about Seabourn.  It is different from other lines and is ONE of the things that has drawn us to Seabourn.  Everyone is (supposed) to be equal on Seabourn no matter if you. have chosen a basic Veranda suite or the Wintergarten suite.  At the same time, everyone does expect expertly delivered service.

[Mr Luxury]

All the same on a Seabourn ship.

Glass half full or glass half empty. 

[saminina]

17 hours ago, Captainlyle said:

Let me say everyone has made legitimate complaints.Bottom line Seabourn (Carnival) is in dire financial straits,and to be honest with you in my opinion they have less then a 40% chance of surviving.

 

Any potential buyer knows this and that is why the value of SB deceases as the days pass.  The sooner CCL files Chapter XI, the better for the industry.   I just wish they could unload SB before that happens.

[SLSD]

10 minutes ago, saminina said:

Any potential buyer knows this and that is why the value of SB deceases as the days pass.  The sooner CCL files Chapter XI, the better for the industry.   I just wish they could unload SB before that happens.

I agree with you.  

 

Mr. SLSD is a business bankruptcy attorney.  I asked him what might happen to Carnival as one of the posters here said that he/she thought Carnival only had a 40% of survival.  Here is what Mr. SLSD said:

 

People say Carnival is "broke" and has only a less than 50% chance of survival. This is incorrect if we understand that Carnival is a holding company that owns Seabourn and a number of operating branded subsidiaries. What will happen is Carnival will file a Chapter 11 case in Manhattan or in Wilmington, Delaware. The cruise-line subsidiaries of Carnival will also file, in order to obtain the protection of the "automatic stay" of the U.S. Bankruptcy Code, but will as debtors in possession continue to operate their businesses. A commercial bank group, or a group of investment funds, will step up to provide a debtor-in-possession loan to the parent Carnival and the subsidiaries secured by a priming lien on all assets, so the lines will have ample liquidity to pay their going-forward bills and operating expenses. The senior creditors may demand a paydown, so Carnival may need to or wish to sell a major asset, such as Seabourn, for cash. Then the real fun will begin as the groups of creditors--U.S. bankruptcy law treats creditors according to their nonbankruptcy-law priorities--will begin to jockey. Each group, and that includes the Committee of Unsecured Creditors, will hire financial advisors and of course also experienced bankruptcy lawyers. The valuations will make it pretty clear (although this issue can be highly litigated too) which tranche of the "capital stack" is the "fulcrum security," i.e., the tranche of debt, whether secured or unsecured and taking into account the intercreditor agreements as to priorities, below which there is no value of assets. All debts below that tranche are entitled to zero. The parties will bargain about a Chapter 11 plan of reorganization under which the stock of the reorganized Carnival or its successor will be allocated to the classes of debt at and above the fulcrum; all other debts will be cancelled, although it is traditional to "leave a tip on the table" (allocate a small amount) to general unsecured creditors, and the debts entitled to participate under the plan will be exchanged for stock in the reorganized company, thus fixing the balance sheet and restructuring (e.g., the debtors can reject unprofitable or burdensome contracts) the enterprise to go forth and hopefully be profitable. (One alternative is if some deep pocketed entity steps forth and offers to buy other pieces or the whole business for cash or cash and securities.) So it is unlikely that Carnival will totally cease to be.  

Edited October 8, 2022 by SLSD

[Vineyard View]

Well, that is a whole lot of information!  Should this happen, what occurs with those who have prepaid for their cruise?  Are they last in line to be reimbursed? 
Aside from that singular level concern, if that were to happen, I have to think that severe cost cutting measures could likely be implemented…..trickle down theory to those sailing. 

[saminina]

I would think no worries for prepaid bookings.   There would be noticeable changes, but not sure how noticeable to customers.  Milestone awards could be wiped out, which is why I'll be booking a 14 day award this week.   Problem is, I see nothing too attractive right now.

[skybluewaters]

Maybe Manfredi Lefebvre and Geoffrey Kent could swoop in and purchase Seabourn.  By combining Seabourn's ships with the two Crystal ships they recently purchased, this could be the beginning of a beautiful friendship.  Among other things, it would take the pressure off of the new Crystal to build new ships right away.

[SLSD]

5 hours ago, Vineyard View said:

Well, that is a whole lot of information!  Should this happen, what occurs with those who have prepaid for their cruise?  Are they last in line to be reimbursed? 
Aside from that singular level concern, if that were to happen, I have to think that severe cost cutting measures could likely be implemented…..trickle down theory to those sailing. 

Mr. SLSD is unwilling to pontificate about various scenarios for unsecured creditors.  There would be a lot of variables at play--reorganization of Seabourn as an entity,  liquidation, Seabourn's assets being purchased by another entity and reorganized under a different brand.  Anyone who is concerned about these risks should consult their own attorney prior to any bankruptcy being filed. 

 

Edited October 9, 2022 by SLSD

[2SailingNomads]

Ignoring hypothetical Chapter 11 filings, IMO the root cause of poor service comes down to 3 things: many long time crew left under the prior management to Windstar and other lines, under current management many others left to new start ups like Scenic (great Ex-Seabourn crew but ship has some design issues), and more arrribution due

to the pandemic. Several long time crew we know took land-based jobs when the cruise industry shutdown.  Last cruise on the Ovation had a very lot of good from many we knew from the past but also multiple failures from inexperienced crew members. As someone who hires and mentors people it comes down to 2 things: did you make a good hire or a mistake? and can they meet the objectives given the training if allowed enough time to properly train.  My guess is the allotted training time has been cut short since the pandemic and they are taking 2nd round picks (to use a NFL analogy) when in the past Seabourn only had 1st round picks.  JMO

[texanaust]

7 hours ago, saminina said:

I would think no worries for prepaid bookings.   There would be noticeable changes, but not sure how noticeable to customers.  Milestone awards could be wiped out, which is why I'll be booking a 14 day award this week.   Problem is, I see nothing too attractive right now.

We booked and used our week this past summer.  Use it or lose it!  

[rkacruiser]

On 10/8/2022 at 12:48 PM, saminina said:

The sooner CCL files Chapter XI, the better for the industry.

 

As a CCL shareholder, I would prefer this does not happen.  Why do you feel if it happened it would be better for the industry?