Sailing around Cape Horn / Beagle Channel - is it rough?

[Steerpike58]

We're considering a cruise around the tip of South America (from Buenos Aries to Santiago) and I was just wondering, is that area likely to be really rough?  How do modern cruise ships handle rough seas?  

 

Related - where are the 'hot spots' in the cruise world when it comes to rough seas?  

 

[Flatbush Flyer]

2 hours ago, Steerpike58 said:

We're considering a cruise around the tip of South America (from Buenos Aries to Santiago) and I was just wondering, is that area likely to be really rough?  How do modern cruise ships handle rough seas?  

 

Related - where are the 'hot spots' in the cruise world when it comes to rough seas?  

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLzBDhilDL0

 

[crystalspin]

3 hours ago, Steerpike58 said:

We're considering a cruise around the tip of South America (from Buenos Aries to Santiago) and I was just wondering, is that area likely to be really rough?

The Drake Passage is known for storms and rough waters, called the Drake Shake, but can be as calm as can be -- when it is called the Drake Lake. Our reverse cruise from Valparaiso to Buenos Aires encountered Drake Lake. It was beautiful! But it is the luck of the draw.

[navybankerteacher]

8 hours ago, Steerpike58 said:

We're considering a cruise around the tip of South America (from Buenos Aries to Santiago) and I was just wondering, is that area likely to be really rough?  How do modern cruise ships handle rough seas?  

 

Related - where are the 'hot spots' in the cruise world when it comes to rough seas?  

 

There is probably a greater likelihood of rough seas there than at most other passages.  However it is possible for very calm conditions to exist.   Other "hot spots" would include the Bay of Biscay, that gulf in the Med just south of the Rhone Valley, and rounding Cape Hatteras, NC.

 

Modern cruise ships generally handle "rough seas" well. Of course, given modern meteorology and communications, modern cruise ships generally "handle" really rough seas in any particular area by simply being elsewhere.

[rkacruiser]

Just prior to my passage through this area, a severe storm had developed.  The Captain delayed our transit to Antarctica by a half day+ by sailing the Zaandam in the lee of the land mass at the end of Cape Horn.  When the storm had passed, we began across and, it was sufficiently rough, that maintaining one's balance in the Crow's Nest without hanging on to something was wise to do.  Looking out my cabin's window at the very dark cloud masses of the storm that had passed us, trying to have made that crossing might have been the worse sea conditions that I have experienced.

 

Crossing the Northern Pacific in late September from Vancouver to Russia, the Volendam experienced two strong storms with waves washing over the Crow's Nest when the bow slammed down into a trough.  There were some other "not so calm" parts of days, but, nothing like those storms!  

[donaldsc]

18 hours ago, Steerpike58 said:

We're considering a cruise around the tip of South America (from Buenos Aries to Santiago) and I was just wondering, is that area likely to be really rough?  How do modern cruise ships handle rough seas?  

 

Related - where are the 'hot spots' in the cruise world when it comes to rough seas?  

 

 

 

[capriccio]

Our experience in 2016:  We had a lovely sail in to Ushuaia and were to take a small boat excursion. Within an hour the winds picked up and that was canceled (replaced by a tour in the National Park that was great).  Upon return to the ship we noticed that no effort was being made to prepare for departure.  The winds were so high the ship couldn't not leave the dock!  The captain explained that if the smaller ship docked opposite us when we arrived was still there it would have shielded us enough from the wind to push away.  Our 6 pm departure ended up being a midnight to 1 am departure and the beginning of a rocking and rolling night.

 

Still rocking and rolling when we got up in the morning.  After my DH took a shower he told me to come look at the tub.  The water was barely draining because the bow of the ship was higher than the stern (we were far aft).  My BIL - in the next cabin - mentioned the same thing.  We finally got close to Cape Horn and the Captain came on the PA system and said "There it is.  Take a close look because we aren't going to attempt to sail around it.  Setting the new course the seas should be much better and we will get to the Falkland Islands without a problem."  I didn't hear a single person standing on deck complained and I doubt if the others self confined to their cabins did either! 

 

[Heidi13]

20 hours ago, Steerpike58 said:

We're considering a cruise around the tip of South America (from Buenos Aries to Santiago) and I was just wondering, is that area likely to be really rough?  How do modern cruise ships handle rough seas?  

 

Related - where are the 'hot spots' in the cruise world when it comes to rough seas?  

 

 

Unfortunately, with respect to weather and seas, what other experienced has little bearing on what you will experience. However, Cape Horn is renowned as having the potential for being some of the roughest seas in the World.

 

Masters manage the passage using a number of tools - first and foremost is reviewing weather routing information and the synopsis/forecasts from a recognised National Meteorological Office. In open waters the Master will endeavour to steam toward the edge of the storm, reducing speed and steering a course in accordance with the seas to ease the passage. In coastal areas the master may seek shelter to evade rough seas.

 

Lots of areas are known for rough seas, with the primary factors being the fetch (distance the wind blows), depth of water and local weather issues. Some of the worst areas i have experienced are:

 - North Atlantic

 - North & South Pacific

 - Indian Ocean

 - Tasman Sea

 - Bay of Biscay

 - Meddy

 - Gulf of Tehuantepec (south of Acapulco)

 - Hecate Strait (BC Coast)

 - Approaches to san Francisco & Columbia River

 - Roaring 40's (uninterupted waters at 40S)

 - Bass Strait

[thinfool]

The day we rounded the Horn it looked like a farm pond.  Almost disappointing.

Point is...tlhere is no telling sea conditions at any given time.  South America is a great trip!

[Steerpike58]

On 11/10/2022 at 2:36 PM, capriccio said:

....  We finally got close to Cape Horn and the Captain came on the PA system and said "There it is.  Take a close look because we aren't going to attempt to sail around it.  Setting the new course the seas should be much better and we will get to the Falkland Islands without a problem."  I didn't hear a single person standing on deck complained and I doubt if the others self confined to their cabins did either! 

 

So did they abandon the destinations altogether? I presume, if you don't go 'around' Cape Horn, you don't get to 'the other side', which means, destinations abandoned. Or, are there some 'passages' that you can take to achieve the same purpose? Or was this just a 'sight seeing' detour around the Horn? 

[Steerpike58]

On 11/10/2022 at 2:17 PM, donaldsc said:

 

 

That's an awesome video!  Especially interesting to see the damage at the end. I presume the ship had to undergo extensive repairs after this? The deck buckling is what makes me think that. 

[capriccio]

42 minutes ago, Steerpike58 said:

So did they abandon the destinations altogether? I presume, if you don't go 'around' Cape Horn, you don't get to 'the other side', which means, destinations abandoned. Or, are there some 'passages' that you can take to achieve the same purpose? Or was this just a 'sight seeing' detour around the Horn? 

Cape Horn is actually on an island (Hornos Island, Chile).  We were never scheduled to dock there.  In fact I don't know if any cruise ships do but maybe some of the small ones stop.  On our cruise it was planned to be a sail around so we saw 1/2 of the island in the distance.

[Steerpike58]

1 hour ago, capriccio said:

Cape Horn is actually on an island (Hornos Island, Chile).  We were never scheduled to dock there.  In fact I don't know if any cruise ships do but maybe some of the small ones stop.  On our cruise it was planned to be a sail around so we saw 1/2 of the island in the distance.

What I meant was, if you are on a cruise from Buenos Aries (east side) to Santiago (West side), do you have any option other than to go 'around the horn'?  If you can't make it around the horn, what do you do in order to reach your destination in Santiago? 

[herbanrenewal]

 

If you look at the map you can see there are passages that dont involve rounding Cape Horn to get to the Chilean coast to Valpariso.  

[billdip]

Yu selected a great a great itinerary. Went around the Cape twice, landed once. Both times were calm

[chengkp75]

On 11/13/2022 at 3:06 PM, Steerpike58 said:

That's an awesome video!  Especially interesting to see the damage at the end. I presume the ship had to undergo extensive repairs after this? The deck buckling is what makes me think that. 

What you might consider "extensive" repairs is probably a lot different than what the company does.  Ships are steel boxes, designed to flex with the seas.  If you stand at the back of a ship on the upper deck, and look at the bow, you will see both the bow flexing up and down in relation to the rest of the hull, as well as twisting side to side.  This is normal.  However, when you glue wood decking on to the steel, it has a different elasticity, and so will tend to break at stress points.  Those areas of wooden deck would likely be roped off, and repaired within 3-5 days by the ship's carpenters.

[Steerpike58]

On 11/16/2022 at 8:05 AM, herbanrenewal said:

 

If you look at the map you can see there are passages that dont involve rounding Cape Horn to get to the Chilean coast to Valpariso.  

This got me doing a review of my old history lessons!  Voyages of discovery, and all that.  According to this article, "The Beagle Channel, the Straits of Magellan to the north, and the open-ocean Drake Passage to the south are the three navigable passages around South America between the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans. Most commercial shipping uses the open-ocean Drake Passage."

 

It goes on to say "(Although it (Beagle Channel) is navigable by large ships, there are safer waters to the south (Drake Passage) and to the north (Strait of Magellan)."

 

Apparently the Strait of Magellan was discovered first - 1520, followed by the rounding of Cape Horn (Drake Passage) in 1616. The Beagle Channel wasn't discovered till 1831. 

 

Why does most commercial shipping use the open-ocean Drake Passage around Cape Horn, anyone know? It would seem like the Strait of Magellan would be preferable!  Is it due to the narrowness of the channel and the need for pilots? 

 

 

Edited November 17, 2022 by Steerpike58

[ldubs]

14 minutes ago, Steerpike58 said:

This got me doing a review of my old history lessons!  Voyages of discovery, and all that.  According to this article, "The Beagle Channel, the Straits of Magellan to the north, and the open-ocean Drake Passage to the south are the three navigable passages around South America between the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans. Most commercial shipping uses the open-ocean Drake Passage."

 

It goes on to say "Although it is navigable by large ships, there are safer waters to the south (Drake Passage) and to the north (Strait of Magellan)."

 

Apparently the Strait of Magellan was discovered first - 1520, followed by the rounding of Cape Horn (Drake Passage) in 1616. The Beagle Channel wasn't discovered till 1831. 

 

Why does most commercial shipping use the open-ocean Drake Passage around Cape Horn, anyone know? It would seem like the Strait of Magellan would be preferable!  Is it due to the narrowness of the channel and the need for pilots? 

 

 

 

Thanks for posting this.  I knew where it was but had not idea what the Strait of Magellan actually looked like.   I should have paid more attention in class. 

 

Good question about commercial shipping.  I wonder if it also has to do with being in international vs territorial waters.   

[Steerpike58]

So ... having refreshed my geography of Cape Horn (Drakes Passage), the Beagle Channel, and the Strait of Magellan, do cruise lines going from Argentina to Chile (Santiago) typically opt for 'Cape Horn' or another option? 

 

Looking again at the specifics of the Viking cruise I was interested in ... makes more sense now ... looks like they sail close to Cape Horn just for grins (but not 'around' it), then sail into the Beagle Channel and Ushuaia for a port-stop, through the Beagle Channel and then up to Punta Arenas at the western end of the Strait of Magellan for another port stop, then back out to the Pacific and on up to Santiago.  So technically they are traversing the Beagle Channel in its entirety, touching on the other passages partially.  

 

Viking's 'map', along with a real map from Google ... 

 

This is a Holland America 'map' ...

[Heidi13]

4 hours ago, Steerpike58 said:

Why does most commercial shipping use the open-ocean Drake Passage around Cape Horn, anyone know? It would seem like the Strait of Magellan would be preferable!  Is it due to the narrowness of the channel and the need for pilots? 

 

 

Most deep sea Masters prefer open water, so will avoid narrow channels, which are most likely compulsory pilotage waters.

[chengkp75]

9 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

Most deep sea Masters prefer open water, so will avoid narrow channels, which are most likely compulsory pilotage waters.

I think Andy will agree that most Masters will also prefer not to have rocks on both sides.  Open ocean gives you the option to steer various courses to minimize pitch/roll, and still not bounce of the "curbs".

[Heidi13]

4 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

I think Andy will agree that most Masters will also prefer not to have rocks on both sides.  Open ocean gives you the option to steer various courses to minimize pitch/roll, and still not bounce of the "curbs".

 

You bet Chief, especially when the ship is only single screw and doesn't have high lift rudders and multiple thrusters.

 

Having spent 30 years navigating through narrow channels, in addition to the ship needing better manoeuvering characteristics than your average deep sea ship, it also takes an experienced coastal Master, even if they have a Pilot onboard. Over the years, I had a number of very experienced deep sea Masters try out and very few survived. I recall one ULCC Master couldn't handle the 90 degree turns in big tides, doing 20 kts about 480' off the rocks and every time he saw a ship/boat wanted to slow down. He just couldn't comprehend we could be dead in the water in 3 cables from 20 kts, since his last ship took 10 miles to stop. Prior to arrival, I made the initial speed reduction at 1 mile.

 

When using narrow channels you will escape the mountainous seas, but you don't always escape the winds. Storm force winds in confined channels are no fun, so yet another reason most deep sea Masters will opt for open water, where they can easily ride out the storm.

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

Storm force winds in confined channels are no fun, so yet another reason most deep sea Masters will opt for open water, where they can easily ride out the storm.

I've always personally detested the North Sea, where the relatively enclosed nature, and relatively shallow water prevents the long rollers, but you get shorter period, higher sided seas.

[whogo]

February, 2022, it was the Drake Lake for us on the Veendam as the captain circled Cape Horn. In 2020 the we delayed crossing the Drake Passage to Antarctica until 24 foot swells abated. The roughest seas I have encountered were in the Irish Sea, of all places.

[Heidi13]

7 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

I've always personally detested the North Sea, where the relatively enclosed nature, and relatively shallow water prevents the long rollers, but you get shorter period, higher sided seas.

 

Same with Hecate Strait, which is what most of the Alaska cruise ships use these days, once they clear Vancouver Island. On the west side it is really shallow, so the seas were significant. We used to cross 3 times per week in the winter, so have had some interesting experiences.