P&O cancellation / Medical questionnaire

[davecttr]

16 minutes ago, Dermotsgirl said:

Probably, with the week long cruises, there’s not enough time for multiple cases to become apparent, and then the people leave the ship before they can infect too many fellow passengers. 

Indeed which leads me to believe that if I book any more cruises they will be no more than a week or so

[Fionboard]

Some long cruises coming up soon. Wonder if there are going to be the same problems as there were this year in the Caribbean. 

[Megabear2]

Morning all.  This is getting quite emotive!  The problem is simple no one in their right mind believed that P&O and Cunard would knowingly put passengers at risk of losing all their money so took little notice of the actual consequences of the removal of FCC (indeed some sailed in September not realising it had gone).  We are now seeing the result of this arbitrary action and rightly are outraged at the stupidity of it. 

 

Let's take a breath here and look at it logically.  Clause 22 etc etc are challengable in a court and P&O are relying on no one going that way.  As a result they will try to do their normal and "buy off" individuals with non disclosure agreements.  Those who have lost money will doff their caps, say thank you very much and go on their way while the other thousands sail on in ignorance.  To be fair a lot on here weren't particularly interested when I asked how they felt about the change of terms so why would the wider public be - that's what P&O etc al are banking on.

 

Now emotions aside let's look at where we are.  I've researched and called their bluff and challenged the policy as unfair and they are walking on difficult shifting ground.  By going to the very person they have all over their website as an insurance expert we have an answer before they can circle their wagons so to speak. That no doubt has caused a bit of hand wringing that they just might be caught out on this one.

 

Remember they have form on this.  I called their bluff on offloading and who was responsible for the passengers who were quarantined ashore.  They had to admit they were.  I challenged them via Adam Edinburgh and the FCA earlier this year on uninsurable sections of their policy. They pushed the matter to their lawyers who were supposed to speak to me and arranged for a Q&A with Adam Edinburgh to appear on their website.  In other words they had to realise we might be green but we aren't cabbage looking.

 

So, instead of us arguing about what we can't do, let's focus on what we've already achieved.  It's very early days on this but they are already preparing to talk.  We have the facts, we have the argument, we're gathering the figures and more importantly we know we are right that it's all uninsurable.  We can I'm absolutely certain get some movement on all this.  Slowly, slowly catch the monkey.

[Teddy123]

39 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

Interesting that it is so specific about symptoms of  viral and bacterial illness.
 

If someone in all honesty ticks the box to say they have a cough which is caused for example by a reaction to medication or allergies or the after effects of an illness which is no longer active etc then the clause surely could not be invoked? Based on that I would have thought P&O would need to explore the reason for the cough before denying boarding. There can’t be that many people who tick yes surely.

 

Failure to establish to cause of the cough means they can’t say it was a symptom of a bacterial or viral illness.
 

There is an old adage, those who accuse must prove.

 

 

I'm afraid a cough IS a symptom of Covid and if you have one, you have a symptom of Covid whether or not you actually have Covid.  So P&O can say you have a symptom of Covid. The clause only refers to having a symptom, not actually having the infection - which is the nub of the problem, of course.

[Eglesbrech]

13 minutes ago, Teddy123 said:

I'm afraid a cough IS a symptom of Covid and if you have one, you have a symptom of Covid whether or not you actually have Covid.  So P&O can say you have a symptom of Covid. The clause only refers to having a symptom, not actually having the infection - which is the nub of the problem, of course.

You could be correct but it is very, very  broad and I would think they still have a duty to establish facts before invoking it otherwise term could be seen as unfair (in the T&Cs sense of unfair rather than it’s just not fair).

Time will tell and meantime people will probably just lie which makes the whole process meaningless.

 

 

[wowzz]

24 minutes ago, Teddy123 said:

I'm afraid a cough IS a symptom of Covid and if you have one, you have a symptom of Covid whether or not you actually have Covid. 

But coughing is a symptom of a multitude of other ailments as well. To deny boarding to some one who is coughing because of a non contagious bronchial issue, say,  purely because of a similar symptom is downright wrong. 

[Dermotsgirl]

52 minutes ago, Fionboard said:

Some long cruises coming up soon. Wonder if there are going to be the same problems as there were this year in the Caribbean. 

Last year, they had Queen Victoria as a ‘support ship’. I wonder how it will be managed without this additional facility 

[Harry Peterson]

Sometimes, it’s almost as if P&O are setting out to alienate customers and encourage them not to book, or to cancel existing bookings…………😳

[P&O SUE]

19 hours ago, jeanlyon said:

I am finding it difficult to believe that if you say you had a cough that was not Covid in the last 2 weeks, you are refused boarding!  What about those who tick a box in error?

I’ve seen this ‘elsewhere’ although you were at least given FCC then, that if you ticked No in error no amount of pleading would change it, cruise cancelled!

[Windsurfboy]

How do you find Q&A with Adam  Edinburgh on P&O web site

[davecttr]

1 hour ago, Harry Peterson said:

Sometimes, it’s almost as if P&O are setting out to alienate customers and encourage them not to book, or to cancel existing bookings…………😳

I was just thinking that on the bus home this morning. Maybe a deliberate attempt to reduce passengers enough to justify getting rid of a few ships.

[Jill85]

There are a few BP medications that can cause a cough and nasal problems, my husband has that problem but it is listed on the medication information sheet! 

[bee-ess]

18 minutes ago, Jill85 said:

There are a few BP medications that can cause a cough and nasal problems, my husband has that problem but it is listed on the medication information sheet! 

I have the same problem but will just answer NO on the cough question, otherwise it is game over with no chance to explain the reason. I wouId be happy to take a covid test before boarding but that option is not available,  I have had this problem since before Covid and it is nothing to do with Covid !

[Teddy123]

2 hours ago, P&O SUE said:

I’ve seen this ‘elsewhere’ although you were at least given FCC then, that if you ticked No in error no amount of pleading would change it, cruise cancelled!

The exclusion condition is that you have a symptom. If you don't have any symptoms, accidentally say you have, then contact P&O to say it was an error and you don't have any, they have no grounds to deny boarding.  If they still do it, I would see grounds for a full cash refund and compensation - perhaps after a battle!

[zap99]

4 hours ago, Splice the mainbrace said:

I don’t know what the coughing question states but I can have coughing fits from time to time often when I eat, associated with acid reflux. For P&O to deny someone boarding just for having a cough is unreasonable as there can be various causes, did they do that pre2020 ? No! What does question actually say?

I think the question was ' have you experienced the symptoms of a cough' . Something like that, but I can't retrieve the questionnaire. 

[niltava42]

11 minutes ago, zap99 said:

I think the question was ' have you experienced the symptoms of a cough' . Something like that, but I can't retrieve the questionnaire. 

This is the question:

[Splice the mainbrace]

1 minute ago, niltava42 said:

This is the question:

 

 

 

Rather general, especially the cough, headache, muscle aches etc. A lot of people will have suffered from one of those within 10 days of sailing but nothing to do with any disease.

[zap99]

13 minutes ago, niltava42 said:

This is the question:

Thanks.  I honestly said no. I assume they meant all of them.🤣

[molecrochip]

21 minutes ago, Splice the mainbrace said:

Rather general, especially the cough, headache, muscle aches etc. A lot of people will have suffered from one of those within 10 days of sailing but nothing to do with any disease.

The problem is that a lot of people suffer from some of those symptoms in connection with life long conditions that they have. Those conditions may be very well managed and pose no threat to anyone on the ship, or the person answering the question.

 

Most people want to be honest. If you're honest, you expect a follow-up question. Not a straight forward cancellation. This is where I have the issue.

 

I know of one regular P&O customer who has IBS. They regularly tick three, four or five or those boxes including diarrhea. However, having had the condition for most of their adult life, they know when its their IBS, and when its an illness situation such as a viral/bacterial bug.

 

I was also talking to a disabled P&O customer the other day who has a permanent cough and struggles to regulate their temperature. These aren't symptoms of illness but of their disability.

 

People think I don't speak out against P&O but its not true. The questionnaire is too blunt an instrument. We all get what they are trying to achieve but their approach has to be sensible, far and balanced.

Edited October 13, 2022 by molecrochip

[wowzz]

26 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

People think I don't speak out against P&O but its not true. The questionnaire is too blunt an instrument. We all get what they are trying to achieve but their approach has to be sensible, far and balanced.

Is there anyone within P&O management who actually realises what a complete dog's dinner they are making of the entire medical questionnaire issue ?

You cannot be the only P&O employee that realises it is a shambles !

[jeanlyon]

51 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

The problem is that a lot of people suffer from some of those symptoms in connection with life long conditions that they have. Those conditions may be very well managed and pose no threat to anyone on the ship, or the person answering the question.

 

Most people want to be honest. If you're honest, you expect a follow-up question. Not a straight forward cancellation. This is where I have the issue.

 

I know of one regular P&O customer who has IBS. They regularly tick three, four or five or those boxes including diarrhea. However, having had the condition for most of their adult life, they know when its their IBS, and when its an illness situation such as a viral/bacterial bug.

 

I was also talking to a disabled P&O customer the other day who has a permanent cough and struggles to regulate their temperature. These aren't symptoms of illness but of their disability.

 

People think I don't speak out against P&O but its not true. The questionnaire is too blunt an instrument. We all get what they are trying to achieve but their approach has to be sensible, far and balanced.

I also suffer badly with IBS and also diverticular disease.  Quite common in the over 50s.  So guess what I lie, even if I have had a loose stomach that very day.  I once had to go to the medical unit on Arcadia after we left Newfoundland.  as soon as I uttered the "d" word, I was ushered into a room and question about noro.  Then they realized I had diverticulitis and I was on a drip for half a day full of antibiotics.

 

So I shall continue to lie about any possible symptom I have.

[zap99]

51 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Is there anyone within P&O management who actually realises what a complete dog's dinner they are making of the entire medical questionnaire issue ?

You cannot be the only P&O employee that realises it is a shambles !

Of coarse I suffer from shortness of breath. So would Lord P&O carrying all DW's suitcases

 

[Snow Hill]

3 hours ago, Jill85 said:

There are a few BP medications that can cause a cough and nasal problems, my husband has that problem but it is listed on the medication information sheet! 

I have same with one of my BP tablets it lists as a common side effect a dry tickle cough and sinus inflammation. If they are going to stop everyone with a semblance of a cough boarding then they will lose a heck of a lot of passengers. 
 

Seems P&O are hell bent on dissuading their potential customers from travelling with them, a cough is one of a number of symptoms of Covid, not everyone gets a cough, the top  5 symptoms of the current variant don’t include a cough. 
 

https://joinzoe.com/learn/omicron-symptoms

 

For P&O to deny boarding because of a cough over a week ago would appear to be unfair and I would imagine a court may think that way too.

 

 

[Harry Peterson]

I wonder if all this is a requirement of Carnival’s insurers and essentially back covering all round. There are some potentially extremely large but cloudy potential liabilities around Covid.

[Cathygh]

7 hours ago, Dermotsgirl said:

I wonder about the air con systems too, and what was actually done.

 

After 2 years, I get the impression that HEPA air filtration systems are what’s required, which filters out ‘bad air’ and lets fresh air circulate round. These systems are highly recommended for places where there are a lot of people. I don’t know what works were actually done on the ship’s air con, but unless these air filtration systems were installed, I’m not sure about the actual effectiveness 

 

 

I believe the upgrade of the hepa filters was a condition set by the government to allow the ships to restart. I used to have cruise cough but have not had any trouble with it on  the 5 cruises I have done since the restart.