Dumping Ports and substituting sea days

[ausbod]

Had booked on Noordam for the San Diego to Sydney cruise in October but then when ports were cancelled and substituted we

cancelled. Now we notice this has happened with Zuiderdam cruise to Fort Lauderdale.

We have a cruise booked on P&O Australia on the former Star Princess (now Pacific Encounter). Today we were advised that 

Komodo Island was substituted with Lombok and also our Cairns overnight had been substituted with an additional sea day.

My feeling is that Carnival Corporate have directed brands to reduce port time and increase sea days to save fuel costs.

Doesn’t matter that many choose a particular cruise for specific ports that we wanted to visit. We are not the first consideration 

anymore.

 

 

[Mary229]

Without researching date, time, weather, new regulations we cannot know why they cancelled ports.   This year the only ports that were canceled on my cruises were because of sudden changes to the port nation’s Covid policies .  Since you are from Australia you should understand that can happen.  In the US a few jurisdictions have now prohibited large cruise ships.  Komodo Island has similar restrictions 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Mary229

[ski ww]

Sea days do not save fuel, you burn more fuel cruising then spending a day in port. 

[MichiganFisherman]

27 minutes ago, ski ww said:

Sea days do not save fuel, you burn more fuel cruising then spending a day in port. 

But then more people aboard equals more spending on food, drinks, shopping, and the casino. You never know, maybe the OP is on to something. 

[CruiserBruce]

Port days have shore excursions, which have tremendous markup on the price. 

 

Dumping ports to make more money is a common, but never proven theory. 

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, ausbod said:

My feeling is that Carnival Corporate have directed brands to reduce port time and increase sea days to save fuel costs.

 

56 minutes ago, ski ww said:

Sea days do not save fuel, you burn more fuel cruising then spending a day in port. 

Correct.  In port, the ship will normally be able to reduce to one generator on line, at a fairly high load, so very fuel efficient.  While underway, the ship's automation is hard-wired to require a minimum of 2-3 generators, regardless of how slow you steam, so you have excess capacity, running at low load, so you not only burn more fuel over more hours, you do so less efficiently.  Unless there are required "full speed" transits between ports in the original itinerary, that allow for a slower speed without the port call, you won't save fuel.  And, even then, unless the "full speed" run is more than 2-3 days, the fuel savings from  slow steaming is marginal.

[VMax1700]

2 hours ago, ausbod said:

reduce port time and increase sea days to save fuel costs.

Perhaps you could explain the science and financial calculations behind this theory?

[VMax1700]

2 hours ago, ausbod said:

many choose a particular cruise for specific ports

Not too clever, as many imponderables can lead to ports being missed or changed not least that the  cruise contract permits it.

[CruiserBruce]

54 minutes ago, VMax1700 said:

Perhaps you could explain the science and financial calculations behind this theory?

Science, facts? Not required.

[Banditswife]

  While we understand it is in our cruise contract that the ship/cruise line can change/eliminate ports, it is frustrating.  They don't give any explanation of why they made the change.  If they did give us a reason for the change, we would be less frustrated.  We have a B2B that originally stopped at Key West on both cruises.  One KW stop was changed early on, & 2nd was changed much closer to sail date.  In gathering info from this board, I learn that KW would rather not have large cruise ships port there.  Whether KW is not allowing the ship in or there is some other reason, it would be nice to know that reason.  We were really looking forward to KW, used our HIA credit for a more expensive tour there.  Yes they refunded the tour cost to our HIA bank, but there are no other tours we are interested in.  

[Mary229]

36 minutes ago, Banditswife said:

  While we understand it is in our cruise contract that the ship/cruise line can change/eliminate ports, it is frustrating.  They don't give any explanation of why they made the change.  If they did give us a reason for the change, we would be less frustrated.  We have a B2B that originally stopped at Key West on both cruises.  One KW stop was changed early on, & 2nd was changed much closer to sail date.  In gathering info from this board, I learn that KW would rather not have large cruise ships port there.  Whether KW is not allowing the ship in or there is some other reason, it would be nice to know that reason.  We were really looking forward to KW, used our HIA credit for a more expensive tour there.  Yes they refunded the tour cost to our HIA bank, but there are no other tours we are interested in.  

I agree, they could be more forthcoming.   I think most pax would be more understanding of the situation if they know.  Unfortunately the lines are often navigating through a slew of election and judicial actions when trying to create itineraries.  KW seemed pretty set in stone but perhaps it was in court?  
 

in the case of Komodo there was a van then there was a negotiation.  I don’t know the exact timeline but it may be recent

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/tourism-strike-komodo-island-indonesia/index.html

 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Mary229

[albingirl]

Maybe HAL should stop selling cruises with KW as a port. They've done it with us even though it's been well known for YEARS  that KW doesn't want the ships anymore.

[Wakepatrol]

The ship burns 350 gallons every 190 yards. So it burns more fuel when it’s moving than when it’s tied to a dock

[ShipWalker]

If at least one port on my cruise is not cancelled I start to get suspicious.

[Banditswife]

1 hour ago, albingirl said:

Maybe HAL should stop selling cruises with KW as a port. They've done it with us even though it's been well known for YEARS  that KW doesn't want the ships anymore.

Agree.  Even after they canceled KWest, they KW on itinerary for new bookings.  I am ok w/ canceled or changed ports- still just wish they'd be up front about it.  We booked this cruise for the ship, so we are good.

[Wakepatrol]

Trust me the crew wants to get everyone off the ship and have a little peace

[cbr663]

I understand the frustration of missed ports.  I hate sea days and travel for itineraries, not sea days.  Too many sea days and I will not book the cruise.

 

Yes, I understand that ports sometimes have to be missed.  I can be understanding and disappointed at the same time.  

[Mary229]

I seem to recall someone explaining that the dock that state funds paid to build is still open to cruise ships.  It seems there are scheduling issues using that dock.   It appears it is only allowing one or two ships to dock a day and I am sure that must be a logistical puzzle.  Hopefully the kinks will be worked out of this new system

 

https://cruisedig.com/ports/key-west-florida

[Banditswife]

The above schedule still shows NS in port on Dec 2 & 9th.  Those have been changed.  Dec 2- Freeport Dec 9 Bimini.  

[The-Inside-Cabin]

If there is a port you really want to visit - fly there.   Don't take a cruise ship.    

 

Never take a cruise if you will be disappointed if a particular port is canceled. 

 

If you might ever want to say "The only reason I took this cruise was to visit X"  then please don't take the cruise.  

Edited November 23, 2022 by The-Inside-Cabin

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, Mary229 said:

I seem to recall someone explaining that the dock that state funds paid to build is still open to cruise ships.  It seems there are scheduling issues using that dock.   It appears it is only allowing one or two ships to dock a day and I am sure that must be a logistical puzzle.  Hopefully the kinks will be worked out of this new system

 

https://cruisedig.com/ports/key-west-florida

In Key West there are 3 docks.  Two of which are managed by the city of key west.  Those are being operated in accordance with the outcome of the  referendum Basically limited ship sizes.

 

The third dock, dock B, is privately owned and operated (nothing to do with any state funds).  It is still accepting large cruise ships.  Basically if there is another large cruise ship scheduled for Key West on the day the HAL ship is scheduled to be there, most likely the port will be changed.  If it is the only large ship scheduled it will most likely go there as scheduled.

 

Cruise lines tend to not change scheduled ports until they are formally notified that they will not be allowed to make the port call.  Pretty much the same thing when restrictions were put in place in Venice, and Bora Bora.  The itineraries did not get changed until the cruise lines received official word that the ship would not be able to stop there, even though the ports limits were well publicized.

[Mary229]

17 minutes ago, ldtr said:

In Key West there are 3 docks.  Two of which are managed by the city of key west.  Those are being operated in accordance with the outcome of the  referendum Basically limited ship sizes.

 

The third dock, dock B, is privately owned and operated (nothing to do with any state funds).  It is still accepting large cruise ships.  Basically if there is another large cruise ship scheduled for Key West on the day the HAL ship is scheduled to be there, most likely the port will be changed.  If it is the only large ship scheduled it will most likely go there as scheduled.

 

Cruise lines tend to not change scheduled ports until they are formally notified that they will not be allowed to make the port call.  Pretty much the same thing when restrictions were put in place in Venice, and Bora Bora.  The itineraries did not get changed until the cruise lines received official word that the ship would not be able to stop there, even though the ports limits were well publicized.

Thanks for the clarification, I recall that this information had been posted before.  

[RD64]

50 minutes ago, The-Inside-Cabin said:

If there is a port you really want to visit - fly there.   Don't take a cruise ship.    

 

Never take a cruise if you will be disappointed if a particular port is canceled. 

 

If you might ever want to say "The only reason I took this cruise was to visit X"  then please don't take the cruise.  

Thank you - these are the wisest words to be found on this thread!

[ontheweb]

I hope no cruise line is still advertising St. Petersburg, Russia as a port!

[Mary229]

8 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

I hope no cruise line is still advertising St. Petersburg, Russia as a port!

I think some still have it for 2023 - wishful thinking.  It has been a month or so since I last checked.