I guess we missed the announcements. So now we pay for…?

[luvtravel]

If Princess would update their ships - spend some $ on that - the increased prices might be more palatable.   We are booked on the Emerald for December - not fun to hear of sections of the ship where the toilets not working and the food not being great - yet they give $ to the Rams!

[Guest ldtr]

4 hours ago, Mike07 said:

 

 

Fortunately, there's competition and princess better play their cards right otherwise you'll be disappointed about what they've turned into like some of us are.

Yep there is competition and the changes Princess is making now have already been made by competitors. Princess is raising prices, but so has the competition  In most cases the competition has raised them more.

 

The only mass market cruise line that has lagged behind d in such changes so far has been HAL.

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, whitecap said:

I sure would like to see some actual numbers to verify your statement.  Not that I'm saying you are wrong, I just find it hard to believe that a couple who spends thousands of dollars for cruise fare isn't adding to the profit margin more than "a drop of water in a large vat of water."  Do you really believe that if Princess sold out a ship and no one purchased a beverage package, played at the casino, ordered a drink at the bar or went on an excursion, that Princess would go broke?  

The math is pretty simple looking at the financial fillings the cruise lines get about 35% of their revenue from on board spend.  Even at the best of times, just prior to 2019, cruise line profit margins ran about 15% (considerably higher than historic profit ranges which tended to be in mid single digits). Back in 2019 on board spend was running about 25%.

 

So it is pretty clear that the cruise lines are not profitable from those that just pay their fares and do not buy on board.  This is true even more today then before covid since they are getting a much larger percentage of their revenue from on board spending, including packages.

 

Someone that does not purchase anything on board is better then an empty cabin, as long as there are enough others that do spend on board. But if not then fares would have to increase considerably.

 

So yes at current fare structure if there was no onboard spending, even if ships were full at the same occupancy level of 2019. Princess would be running atleast a 10% negative margin and probably as high as a 20% negative margin.

 

The data is all in the 10q and 10k filings.

Edited August 7, 2023 by ldtr

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

No, they would not go broke if your scenario was true, but it would certainly effect the bottom line.  Back in 1999, Carnival debuted the Paradise, the first smoke free ship at sea.  It ended up being a short term thing because a high percentage of gamblers as well as a percentage of drinkers like to smoke and revenue in those two areas of the ship were down compared to the other ships in their fleet.

 

The cruise fare that we all pay covers the expenses and gives the cruise line a small profit percentage.  But it's the extra spending on board that takes them into the black, whether that is via the bars, the casinos, the excursions, the pictures, etc.

Nope not these days. Really not even in 2019. After subtracting out money spent on new ships, if you removed on board spend net margin for all 3 of the major holding companies would have been negative. The luxury line individually would have been positive but all the the mass market lines would even in those days in the red.

[Guest ldtr]

3 hours ago, MissP22 said:

From what I read, most of the Alaskan cruises are first time cruisers. The tours are so expensive that it's usually a once in a lifetime trip. 

It's also where Princess and HAL, with their land tours and history in Alaska have always got people to try the line. Many decide they like cruising and come back for more.

 

Based upon hand raising in the show about half of the first timers were new to cruising and about half had previously sailed on other linesbut came to Princess for Alaska and the associated land tours.

 

Higher ratio of first timers on the 7 day north 7 day south routes between Vancouver and Whittier, that the closed loop cruises out of SF or Seattle.

 

 

[memoak]

1 hour ago, luvtravel said:

If Princess would update their ships - spend some $ on that - the increased prices might be more palatable.   We are booked on the Emerald for December - not fun to hear of sections of the ship where the toilets not working and the food not being great - yet they give $ to the Rams!

Was on the Emerald in March aside from getting Covid it was awesome. Great bar staff and great food

[Luv2cruz1000]

Is it still free breakfast and lunch in the main dining rooms or is there a $14.99 charge?

 

[memoak]

26 minutes ago, Luv2cruz1000 said:

Is it still free breakfast and lunch in the main dining rooms or is there a $14.99 charge?

 

Where did that come from ?  The MDR is not considered a casual dining restaurant 

[cheetosrevil]

26 minutes ago, Luv2cruz1000 said:

Is it still free breakfast and lunch in the main dining rooms or is there a $14.99 charge?

 

@Luv2cruz1000 The MDR is still free. The $14.99 is for OceanNow delivery activation if you don't have the Plus or Premier packages.

[Luv2cruz1000]

36 minutes ago, memoak said:

Where did that come from ?  The MDR is not considered a casual dining restaurant 

Sorry, I was thinking thst lunch in the MDR may cost now.Thanks for your time.

[maggie777]

6 hours ago, dockman said:

About the only elite perk worth anything is free laundry so i hope the bean counters don't set their sights on cutting that out or decide to add some delivery charge....

The Elite laundry perk is the last thread holding us to Princess, especially on the longer cruises that we usually book.

[Thrak]

2 hours ago, luvtravel said:

If Princess would update their ships - spend some $ on that - the increased prices might be more palatable.   We are booked on the Emerald for December - not fun to hear of sections of the ship where the toilets not working and the food not being great - yet they give $ to the Rams!

 

Malfunctioning toilets are almost always due to passengers flushing things they shouldn't flush. If people would stop tossing stuff down the toilets that isn't supposed to be flushed the toilet malfunctions would most likely almost completely disappear.

[Hugahav]

We have a cruise booked on the Enchanted Princess next January and purchased the Plus Package.  The cost of the package has since increased ($50 to $60 per person/day). According to my travel summary, it says not all of the current perks listed now will apply to our package.  From what I can see, we would not get the 2 casual dining meals, and it also doesn't list OceanNow or room service delivery.  What I'm wondering - would we have to pay the activation fees for these services (OceanNow and room service delivery)?  We don't really care one way or the other about the casual dining meals, there's plenty of other food options available so I doubt we'll starve. 😆

 

I understand that Princess is free to make any changes to their product they choose, but I really feel the way they did this was a huge PR blunder.  Nothing is really clear and it leaves many of their future passengers (including me) scratching their heads and wondering how much of the package they purchased are they actually going to get?

[Thrak]

Another slight change. Earlier in this thread I stated that Pizza at Alfredo's is now $12. @PescadoAmarillo posted a menu from Sapphire on her blog that shows the current price to be $8.50. Image below snagged from her blog:

 

[t&atravel]

delete

Edited August 8, 2023 by t&atravel

[Steelers36]

2 hours ago, Thrak said:

Another slight change. Earlier in this thread I stated that Pizza at Alfredo's is now $12. @PescadoAmarillo posted a menu from Sapphire on her blog that shows the current price to be $8.50. Image below snagged from her blog:

 

 

Agreed and I noted that it was contrary to the draft menus that were posted after the announcements.  I am wondering if the Royal Class Alfredo's/Gigi's is going to be $12 price point, while the smaller ship locations with this menu will be $8.50.  I think we need to hear from a member who is on a Royal Class ship with Alfredo's and one with Gigi's and see what the situation is.

[LittleFish1976]

11 hours ago, ldtr said:

Compared to the prices Princesses competition charges for packages they are a bargain. 

It probably depends what you actually end up getting for the cost of the package though; my go-to line charges more for a drinks package but provides really good wines to go with that cost. From what I've heard (shortly to have my first on-board experience with Princess) the wine list on Princess ships is so-so, and what's actually on board when you go to order a drink is even less of a choice.

 

I don't think sailing with Princess is particularly cheap in any case.

 

Personally, I don't have a holiday every month or every second month like many people seem to; when I book a cruise I want a quality experience that I'm happy to pay for but I don't want to be treated like a chump.

[LittleFish1976]

20 hours ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

Yes, it's 25% of those on board.  Do you think the bean counters care more about the 25% that cruise bare bones or the 75% that buy the packages?

Can the ships cope with the demand when a higher % of passengers have packages?

 

I've seen youtube vloggers on board Princess sailings where 98% of the passengers had packages and you couldn't get a drink in a bar! Waiters wouldn't accept orders; the app wouldn't work. Bedlam.

 

To have package perks such as desserts most people won't eat is not the answer. If they want people to take a package, they must have the capacity to service the consequent demand.

 

 

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, LittleFish1976 said:

Can the ships cope with the demand when a higher % of passengers have packages?

 

I've seen youtube vloggers on board Princess sailings where 98% of the passengers had packages and you couldn't get a drink in a bar! Waiters wouldn't accept orders; the app wouldn't work. Bedlam.

 

To have package perks such as desserts most people won't eat is not the answer. If they want people to take a package, they must have the capacity to service the consequent demand.

 

 

I really doubt that there have been any Princess cruises with 98% of passengers having packages. The concept of packages is too new on Princess.

 

I expect that they are actually lagging a bit below their planned adoption rate and that is one of the reasons that they went forward with the most recent changes with more additions to the packages.

 

 

Edited August 8, 2023 by ldtr

[LittleFish1976]

Just now, ldtr said:

I really doubt that there have been any Princess cruises with 98% of passengers having packages. The concept of packages is too new on Princess.

 

I expect that they are actually lagging a bit below their planned adoption rate and that is one of the reasons that they went forward with the most recent changes with more additions to the packages.

I'm happy to try to find the mentions on the videos I'm referring to. I can't personally vouch for the figure of course because I wasn't there, but the chaos was well reported.

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, LittleFish1976 said:

I'm happy to try to find the mentions on the videos I'm referring to. I can't personally vouch for the figure of course because I wasn't there, but the chaos was well reported.

Lots of vloggers and influences claim all kinds of things in their efforts to get viewers and followers. Often by recording something and claiming a totally different context.

 

 

 

 

[LittleFish1976]

8 minutes ago, ldtr said:

I really doubt that there have been any Princess cruises with 98% of passengers having packages. The concept of packages is too new on Princess.

 

I expect that they are actually lagging a bit below their planned adoption rate and that is one of the reasons that they went forward with the most recent changes with more additions to the packages.

Here we go. Fortunately it was easy to find. They quote the figure of 97% having the package, so I was incorrect when I said 98.

 

My point of highlighting this is that Princess need to be able to service the demand if they are encouraging people to spend up big on purchasing packages.

 

The important parts are from the 9'30" mark until about 11'30".

 

 

Edited August 8, 2023 by LittleFish1976

[villauk]

3 hours ago, Hugahav said:

We have a cruise booked on the Enchanted Princess next January and purchased the Plus Package.  The cost of the package has since increased ($50 to $60 per person/day). According to my travel summary, it says not all of the current perks listed now will apply to our package.  From what I can see, we would not get the 2 casual dining meals, and it also doesn't list OceanNow or room service delivery.  What I'm wondering - would we have to pay the activation fees for these services (OceanNow and room service delivery)?  We don't really care one way or the other about the casual dining meals, there's plenty of other food options available so I doubt we'll starve. 😆

 

I understand that Princess is free to make any changes to their product they choose, but I really feel the way they did this was a huge PR blunder.  Nothing is really clear and it leaves many of their future passengers (including me) scratching their heads and wondering how much of the package they purchased are they actually going to get?

 

Yes, you have to pay extra or upgrade. We are in the same boat with only a couple of weeks until we cruise (first sailing on the ship under the new implementation - sure to be some fun on our cruise).

[villauk]

1 hour ago, Steelers36 said:

Agreed and I noted that it was contrary to the draft menus that were posted after the announcements.  I am wondering if the Royal Class Alfredo's/Gigi's is going to be $12 price point, while the smaller ship locations with this menu will be $8.50.  I think we need to hear from a member who is on a Royal Class ship with Alfredo's and one with Gigi's and see what the situation is.

 

So you envisage the same product being different prices on different ships? Or is it more the case that prices are now about to rise on those items 🧐? It will be interesting to see what happens.

[Steelers36]

11 minutes ago, villauk said:

 

So you envisage the same product being different prices on different ships? Or is it more the case that prices are now about to rise on those items 🧐? It will be interesting to see what happens.

It is hard to envisage things when it comes to Princess.  At this point all I can do is observe the price difference between an actual ship menu and the draft menus previously shared.  I hope we get more info from more ships after August 12.