What does Carnival do to background check workers in Camp Ocean?

[Eli_6]

I saw this:

https://nypost.com/2023/12/07/news/celebrity-cruises-youth-worker-admits-molesting-kids-on-ship-feds/

And it got me to wondering...

 

Very disconcerting re Celebrity.

[pe4all]

I saw a news blurb this a.m. about this  I would hope that Carnival, and every cruise line does background checks, including fingerprinting.    Unfortunately, if the opportunity arises, some sickos will take advantage.

https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/celebrity-cruise-counselor-molested-children-in-ships-youth-center-fbi-says-18376337

[tree.critter]

Sadly they can run thorough checks but if any person has clean record and no prior known history what are they to do. I’d be FURIOUS to find this out and would probably be spending the next several years in jail for my reaction if this was my child.

 

So after seeing this I looked to see what Carnival may do. This is page to Carnival’s application info for kid staff. They do require  2 years experience, hopefully this should help prevent these kind of hiring errors. 

https://www.carnivalentertainment.com/overview/youth-and-camp-staff

 

 

Edited December 7, 2023 by tree.critter
Additional info

[chengkp75]

Who is going to do this background check?  Unfortunately, the police services in the crew's native countries (where their records are kept) are generally not as professional or thorough as in the US.  How much crime goes unreported in these countries?  How many people in these countries get fingerprinted?

 

When NCL asked Congress for an exemption to allow non-resident aliens to get US merchant mariner documents to work on their US cruise ship, the USCG objected vehemently to this, as every US merchant mariner gets an FBI background check before they can get credentials.

 

While I have worked with international cruise ship crews, and have a lot of respect for a lot of them, when you get on a cruise ship under a flag of convenience, you leave a lot of "safeguards" and "rights" and "protections" that US citizens come to expect as their due, at the foot of the gangway.

[Elaine5715]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Who is going to do this background check?  Unfortunately, the police services in the crew's native countries (where their records are kept) are generally not as professional or thorough as in the US.  How much crime goes unreported in these countries?  How many people in these countries get fingerprinted?

 

When NCL asked Congress for an exemption to allow non-resident aliens to get US merchant mariner documents to work on their US cruise ship, the USCG objected vehemently to this, as every US merchant mariner gets an FBI background check before they can get credentials.

 

While I have worked with international cruise ship crews, and have a lot of respect for a lot of them, when you get on a cruise ship under a flag of convenience, you leave a lot of "safeguards" and "rights" and "protections" that US citizens come to expect as their due, at the foot of the gangway.

How many crimes against children go unreported in the US when the predator is a family member or friend?  I don't know the answer but thinking people are safe based on passing background check is a fallacy.  I think of the statement, "we  never find the best serial killers, just the ones that make mistakes"  

[Illbcruzn4life]

5 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Who is going to do this background check?  Unfortunately, the police services in the crew's native countries (where their records are kept) are generally not as professional or thorough as in the US.  How much crime goes unreported in these countries?  How many people in these countries get fingerprinted?

 

When NCL asked Congress for an exemption to allow non-resident aliens to get US merchant mariner documents to work on their US cruise ship, the USCG objected vehemently to this, as every US merchant mariner gets an FBI background check before they can get credentials.

 

While I have worked with international cruise ship crews, and have a lot of respect for a lot of them, when you get on a cruise ship under a flag of convenience, you leave a lot of "safeguards" and "rights" and "protections" that US citizens come to expect as their due, at the foot of the gangway.

what nationalities work in camp ocean. I thought it was mostly canadian and american.  I haven't had any little ones for 3 decades so I don't really pay that much attention.

[aborgman]

9 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

How many crimes against children go unreported in the US when the predator is a family member or friend?  I don't know the answer but thinking people are safe based on passing background check is a fallacy.  I think of the statement, "we  never find the best serial killers, just the ones that make mistakes"  

 

Thinking you're safe based on employees passing background checks is a fallacy.

 

Thinking you aren't safer based on employees passing background checks is also fallacy.

 

Let's not engage in the Nirvana Fallacy.

 

Background checks aren't perfect and don't guarantee safety, just like seatbelts aren't perfect and don't save everyone... but just like seatbelts - they significantly increase safety.

 

 

[jimbo5544]

5 hours ago, Illbcruzn4life said:

what nationalities work in camp ocean. I thought it was mostly canadian and american.  I haven't had any little ones for 3 decades so I don't really pay that much attention.

I am not sure I would take any solace in where the workers come from.  We have seen with picking and dropping our grandkids off it is a mix of nationalities.  That said, never had any issues at all.

[sparks1093]

Background checks are far from perfect, as we all know, but the most important thing is the management controls that are in place. The are the policies, procedures and practices that make it difficult for the wrong doing to occur. And since humans are involved this is not perfect, either. 

[jimbo5544]

45 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

Background checks are far from perfect, as we all know, but the most important thing is the management controls that are in place. The are the policies, procedures and practices that make it difficult for the wrong doing to occur. And since humans are involved this is not perfect, either. 

Bingo

[mz-s]

My hope and prayer is that Carnival doesn't just hire someone, put them through basic training, and put them in charge of children. I would hope that they have to work their way up to being trusted with children, with lots of vetting and training along the way. Because as everyone here has said, background checks are not going to be much help.

[Elaine5715]

3 hours ago, aborgman said:

 

Thinking you're safe based on employees passing background checks is a fallacy.

 

Thinking you aren't safer based on employees passing background checks is also fallacy.

 

Let's not engage in the Nirvana Fallacy.

 

Background checks aren't perfect and don't guarantee safety, just like seatbelts aren't perfect and don't save everyone... but just like seatbelts - they significantly increase safety.

 

 

Thanks for reinforcing the fallacy.  

[sanger727]

13 hours ago, Illbcruzn4life said:

what nationalities work in camp ocean. I thought it was mostly canadian and american.  I haven't had any little ones for 3 decades so I don't really pay that much attention.

 

The employee is question was from the Philippines. I very much doubt fingerprinting or a background check would have been insightful there. 

[sanger727]

3 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

Thanks for reinforcing the fallacy.  

 

Background checks aren't an ironclad safety check. But they still have to be done. A cruise line would get sued for a ridiculous amount of they hired a convicted sex offender to work with children. There is no way to determine that the person you are hiring has not committed a crime in the past. A polygraph is better than a background check, but is still flawed. Unless a parent never lets their child go to school, camp, sports, church, daycare, etc, there is no way to ensure that they won't be a victim of abuse. Not sure what you think the answer is.

Edited December 8, 2023 by sanger727

[Elaine5715]

29 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

 

Background checks aren't an ironclad safety check. But they still have to be done. A cruise line would get sued for a ridiculous amount of they hired a convicted sex offender to work with children. There is no way to determine that the person you are hiring has not committed a crime in the past. A polygraph is better than a background check, but is still flawed. Unless a parent never lets their child go to school, camp, sports, church, daycare, etc, there is no way to ensure that they won't be a victim of abuse. Not sure what you think the answer is.

Which is why I said, I don't know what the answer is but every predator found assaulting kids since background checks were started passed the background check.  If I was a parent, I would give more credibility to my instincts than being comforted by background checks.   

[sparks1093]

1 hour ago, Elaine5715 said:

Which is why I said, I don't know what the answer is but every predator found assaulting kids since background checks were started passed the background check.  If I was a parent, I would give more credibility to my instincts than being comforted by background checks.   

It is only one step in a process but listening to your kid (and your gut) is just as important. 

[Illbcruzn4life]

8 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

I am not sure I would take any solace in where the workers come from.  We have seen with picking and dropping our grandkids off it is a mix of nationalities.  That said, never had any issues at all.

I was just wondering if it was easier to do background checks on the American and Canadian employees.

[Illbcruzn4life]

1 hour ago, sanger727 said:

 

The employee is question was from the Philippines. I very much doubt fingerprinting or a background check would have been insightful there. 

agreed

[jimbo5544]

15 minutes ago, Illbcruzn4life said:

I was just wondering if it was easier to do background checks on the American and Canadian employees.

Ihmmm fair question 

[sparks1093]

1 hour ago, Illbcruzn4life said:

I was just wondering if it was easier to do background checks on the American and Canadian employees.

I suspect running the check itself is easy enough, but the reliability of the result is in question as Cheng points out above.

[jimbo5544]

3 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

I suspect running the check itself is easy enough, but the reliability of the result is in question as Cheng points out above.

Yup

[Illbcruzn4life]

On 12/8/2023 at 7:59 AM, mz-s said:

My hope and prayer is that Carnival doesn't just hire someone, put them through basic training, and put them in charge of children. I would hope that they have to work their way up to being trusted with children, with lots of vetting and training along the way. Because as everyone here has said, background checks are not going to be much help.

Sorry to hijack but what was the link you provided to get through Orlando airport faster?

 

Thank you

[VentureMan_2000]

The scouting programs in the US has put into place background checks, leader education, 2-person leadership requirements, and more... yet problems still arise.  Predators can be pretty clever.

There is no foolproof panacea for this.

[mz-s]

4 hours ago, Illbcruzn4life said:

Sorry to hijack but what was the link you provided to get through Orlando airport faster?

 

Thank you

 

I don't know the link but the program is called MCO Reserve by Clear. Google that and you'll find it. You put in your flight information and they email you a QR code that you show at the Reserve by Clear line. They put you to the front of the security line.

[Illbcruzn4life]

On 12/9/2023 at 3:13 PM, mz-s said:

 

I don't know the link but the program is called MCO Reserve by Clear. Google that and you'll find it. You put in your flight information and they email you a QR code that you show at the Reserve by Clear line. They put you to the front of the security line.

Thanks a lot. My son and his family just left for DisneyWorld yesterday and I remembered you mentioning this before. Trying to help them get through security, especially with a 4 year old.

 

Thanks again