Assult on a cruise ship

[CocktailPrincess]

I just got back from a cruise on which I suffered a minor assault, (a man spat in my food when he thought I wasn't looking then when confronted threw a glass of drink in my face)  whist on board in the Atlantic ocean.

 

The cruise ship didn't take it very seriously and wouldn't report it to the police.

 

I was sick with a chest infection so I didn't end up getting off at the next port stop a few days later, which is where I presume I should have involved the police.

 

My question is can I report this to the UK police or is there no point ?

[Host Hattie]

It's unlikely they would have jurisdiction, Which ship were you on ?

 

This article may help 

 

How Cruise Ships deal with crime at Sea

[leaveitallbehind]

Please note that this is just my opinion and not anything authoritative, but it would seem to me that the responsibility to deal with this would lie with the ship security (and senior staff) as the event took place on board while at sea.  Not sure which land based police would have authority over this.  I would continue to press the ship staff for a response and continue up the chain of authority with the cruise line if necessary.

[CocktailPrincess]

8 minutes ago, leaveitallbehind said:

Please note that this is just my opinion and not anything authoritative, but it would seem to me that the responsibility to deal with this would lie with the ship security (and senior staff) as the event took place on board while at sea.  Not sure which land based police would have authority over this.  I would continue to press the ship staff for a response and continue up the chain of authority with the cruise line if necessary.

At what point would they have to involve the police? Murder??

In the UK having a drink thrown at you is common assault...to me that's enough to involve the police. 

The ship took 3 days to find the perpetrator then just 'had a word with him'.

 

[leaveitallbehind]

What I said is I don't know which land based police would have authority over this - not that you should or should not report it.  Certainly go to whomever you wish since you've returned to get their advice.  All I was saying is that a situation such as you describe likely would be the responsibility of the ship staff to deal with at the time as it happened at sea.

 

I am also suggesting that if you are not satisfied with the ship's staff response continue to escalate the issue to the cruise line corporate staff.

 

I would also suggest reading the article in the link provided by @Host Hattie for insight into how these issues are handled at sea and the complexities with jurisdiction.

 

Again, I am not an authority on this and this is just my opinion.  But I hope this eventually works out to your satisfaction.

Edited December 15, 2023 by leaveitallbehind

[Host Hattie]

9 minutes ago, CocktailPrincess said:

At what point would they have to involve the police? Murder??

In the UK having a drink thrown at you is common assault...to me that's enough to involve the police. 

The ship took 3 days to find the perpetrator then just 'had a word with him'.

 

If the ship is registered in the UK and/or the crime took place in UK waters then the UK police will have jurisdiction. Otherwise they wouldn't even get involved in murder.

[Heidi13]

30 minutes ago, CocktailPrincess said:

I just got back from a cruise on which I suffered a minor assault, (a man spat in my food when he thought I wasn't looking then when confronted threw a glass of drink in my face)  whist on board in the Atlantic ocean.

 

The cruise ship didn't take it very seriously and wouldn't report it to the police.

 

I was sick with a chest infection so I didn't end up getting off at the next port stop a few days later, which is where I presume I should have involved the police.

 

My question is can I report this to the UK police or is there no point ?

 

When onboard a vessel in International waters, you're subject to the laws of the Flag State, which is the country where the ship is registered. Unless you were on UK flagged tonnage, the UK has no jurisdiction.

 

If not satisfied with the response received onboard, you should have asked for an appointment with the Staff Captain and submitted a complaint in writing. However, you also need to consider the context. Our SIL is a police officer and these types of complaints receive an interview, a file started and then move on to the next. The ship probably took more action by talking to the offender than most police forces, who have neither the time nor manpower to follow up minor complaints.

 

Unless the port you were unable to go ashore was the ship's Flag State, their police also had no jurisdiction.

 

 

[CocktailPrincess]

7 minutes ago, Host Hattie said:

If the ship is registered in the UK and/or the crime took place in UK waters then the UK police will have jurisdiction. Otherwise they wouldn't even get involved in murder.

Thanks, it's registered in Italy

[CocktailPrincess]

37 minutes ago, Host Hattie said:

It's unlikely they would have jurisdiction, Which ship were you on ?

 

This article may help 

 

How Cruise Ships deal with crime at Sea

I did read this last week, but it felt very American based, so was hoping for a UK perspective / legal opinion

[SPacificbound]

39 minutes ago, CocktailPrincess said:

I just got back from a cruise on which I suffered a minor assault, (a man spat in my food when he thought I wasn't looking then when confronted threw a glass of drink in my face)  whist on board in the Atlantic ocean.

 

The cruise ship didn't take it very seriously and wouldn't report it to the police.

 

I was sick with a chest infection so I didn't end up getting off at the next port stop a few days later, which is where I presume I should have involved the police.

 

My question is can I report this to the UK police or is there no point ?

Have you contacted the cruise line directly since you do not believe the authorities onboard handled the incidents correctly? Since the assault happened on a ship in the Atlantic Ocean, it's doubtful that any onshore police would have the authority to get involved. Contact the cruise line and go up the chain of command.

 

[whogo]

Did you embark or debark in the USA? If so: https://www.transportation.gov/mission/safety/cruise-line-incident-reports

[CocktailPrincess]

Just now, whogo said:

Did you embark or debark in the USA? If so: https://www.transportation.gov/mission/safety/cruise-line-incident-reports

I didn't, I embarked in Spain, debarked in The Caribbean 

[leaveitallbehind]

27 minutes ago, CocktailPrincess said:

I didn't, I embarked in Spain, debarked in The Caribbean 

Given the incident and all the circumstances of your cruise as you've provided IMO your best bet, at least for now, would be to report this to the corporate staff with the cruise line and escalate it with them.  As indicated by @Heidi13 there are jurisdiction concerns that may complicate matters, at least initially, outside of dealing with the cruise line.  Maybe when you return home your local authorities can provide additional advise.  Again, I hope this ultimately works out to your satisfaction.

Edited December 15, 2023 by leaveitallbehind

[Mike981]

Wow that sounds awful.

 

Can you share anything that transpired with this person and how it got to that point?

[sanger727]

Spitting in your food is disgusting, not an assault. Presumably they believed that you may have done or said something that escalated the situation to reach the point of a thrown drink. Maybe that's an assault where you live, it's not where I live. It may not be in the ship's flag country either. 

 

Also, the police getting involved isn't necessarily a good thing for you. The most they could do is arrest him. So, let's say you disembarked in the Caribbean, they arrested this guy and carted him off to jail. You would have to return to the Caribbean for any court date. It would almost certainly be more work than it's worth.

Edited December 15, 2023 by sanger727

[navybankerteacher]

An incident on an Italian registered ship, which took place in mid-Atlantic, which ship’s staff did not take seriously, before the victim debarked in the Caribbean before returning to the UK.

 

What is being sought here: payment of damages for noted illness which might have resulted from the event, vengeance against the perpetrator, simple justice whereby future cruisers would be protected from any possible repetition?
 

The obvious first line: the ship’s staff did not take it seriously and there seems to be no official jurisdiction likely to take action .  Other than sending a carefully drafted letter to the management of the line requesting that they pursue the matter, I can think of nothing.

[chengkp75]

6 hours ago, CocktailPrincess said:

I did read this last week, but it felt very American based, so was hoping for a UK perspective / legal opinion

The only part of the article that is "US based" is the fact that the FBI requires reporting of certain crimes for cruises that start and end in the US.  Further, the US has claimed "extra-territorial jurisdiction" (meaning they claim jurisdiction for crimes committed on the high seas) against US citizens only, and only for a very few crimes.  Other than that, what the article says pertains to your circumstances.  As Heidi13 says, the flag state has sole jurisdiction at sea, outside territorial waters (unless a claim is made similar to the FBI for citizens of a particular country, but not many countries do this), and the Captain is the flag state's legal law enforcement agent onboard the ship.  So, as noted by others, no other police other than Italian national police would have any jurisdiction, or interest, and the laws of the UK, where you say this would constitute simple assault, do not apply, Italian law applies.

 

As noted, your only recourse is to complain to the cruise line's corporate offices, but there will be no legal recourse.  You've learned a valuable lesson that many US cruise passengers simply cannot fathom, that when you set foot on a vessel of another country, your home country's laws, rights, and protections go right overboard.

Edited December 16, 2023 by chengkp75

[leaveitallbehind]

21 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

The only part of the article that is "US based" is the fact that the FBI requires reporting of certain crimes for cruises that start and end in the US.  Further, the US has claimed "extra-territorial jurisdiction" (meaning they claim jurisdiction for crimes committed on the high seas) against US citizens only, and only for a very few crimes.  Other than that, what the article says pertains to your circumstances.  As Heidi13 says, the flag state has sole jurisdiction at sea, outside territorial waters (unless a claim is made similar to the FBI for citizens of a particular country, but not many countries do this), and the Captain is the flag state's legal law enforcement agent onboard the ship.  So, as noted by others, no other police other than Italian national police would have any jurisdiction, or interest, and the laws of the UK, where you say this would constitute simple assault, do not apply, Italian law applies.

 

As noted, your only recourse is to complain to the cruise line's corporate offices, but there will be no legal recourse.  You've learned a valuable lesson that many US cruise passengers simply cannot fathom, that when you set foot on a vessel of another country, your home country's laws, rights, and protections go right overboard.

As always, thank you for your thorough and inciteful response to this issue.  It is likely difficult for many to understand the responsibilities and jurisdictional constraints that the cruise lines face regarding certain issues that occur on the high seas.  Your knowledge and first hand understanding of ship board operations is always appreciated and cuts through the speculation to reach the factual basis of how things really operate on board.  I always look forward to, and appreciate, your responses to these types of questions.

Edited December 16, 2023 by leaveitallbehind

[CDNPolar]

16 hours ago, Mike981 said:

Wow that sounds awful.

 

Can you share anything that transpired with this person and how it got to that point?

 

I am also very curious as to what led to this incident?  What caused a total stranger to spit in your food in the first place?

 

I am very interested in the whole discussion especially around jurisdiction, but also I personally would have pushed this as far as I could on board with the crew and security.

 

In no way is this acceptable, but knowing what led to this would be helpful to understand the full situation.

[VMax1700]

Whilst spitting at someone may be interpreted as assault, I would think that spitting in their food is not assault, but food tampering or criminal damage.  After all, your person was not assaulted, it was the food that was 'assaulted'.

[chengkp75]

Further to the overlap of jurisdiction between "flag state" and "port state", the UN Law of the Seas convention (UNCLOS) states that the "port state" only has criminal jurisdiction on the ship, even when the ship is in the "port state's" waters or docked, if:

 

"a) the consequences of the crime extend to the coastal State

b) the crime is of a kind to disturb the peace of the country or the good order of the territorial sea

c) the assistance of the local authorities has been requested by the Master of the ship or by the diplomatic agent or consular officer of the flag State, or

d) such measures are necessary for the suppression of illicit traffic in narcotic drugs of psychotropic substances."

 

So, even a crime like murder, committed on a Bahamian flag ship, by a German national (for example), on a Belgian national (for example), while in US waters would not necessarily fall under US jurisdiction, but the US could request jurisdiction in consultation with the Bahamian government.  It is a very large gray area of law, and one that keeps admiralty lawyers in business.

[Host Hattie]

20 minutes ago, VMax1700 said:

Whilst spitting at someone may be interpreted as assault, I would think that spitting in their food is not assault, but food tampering or criminal damage.  After all, your person was not assaulted, it was the food that was 'assaulted'.

The assault was the glass of drink in the face not the spitting in the food. 

[MCC retired]

Wonder what could cause that person to react like that?

[leaveitallbehind]

23 minutes ago, MCC retired said:

Wonder what could cause that person to react like that?

I've been thinking the same thing. Not to take anything away from the concerns of the OP as that clearly was an ugly event, but there always is another side to everything and acts like this seldom happen randomly. 

Edited December 16, 2023 by leaveitallbehind

[CocktailPrincess]

I was very upset by the incident and tried my best to deal with it onboard but my illness on board (which was nothing to do with the assault or the ship) made it harder for me to deal with it whilst on board.

 

I'll try to address the questions and statements posed by people in their posts now.

 

I was on Costa Fortuna

 

To the people who keep mentioning spitting is not assult- that's not what I said the drink in my face was the assault (according to UK laws) 

 

I totally understand the laws are different at sea, hence me posting in the first place to ask how to report this, obviously I feel  that I was assaulted (I can only go by the laws in my own countrty) and would like to report it to the police, if that was at all possible but I wanted to understand the process as I didn't know and couldn't find an answer via goggle.

 

In answer to what do I want? I just want to report a crime, I want the man to understand that he shouldn't act like that, it worrys me that he could or already does do a lot worse on land, if he could do that on a ship where he couldn't really hide, what could he do to a girl in a city where he can disappear! 

 

In response to wanting to know more details of the incident- here goes.

 

I was sitting with my boyfriend eating food on a high quiet deck, nearest people were 30 metres away, a man came and sat near us, he started to roll a joint, my bf said 'excuse me sir, just so you know this is a non smoking deck' the man shrugged and lit up his joint.

My bf went downstairs to find a staff member to ask him to stop. While he was gone, I told the man I was suffering with a chest infection and had come to an area where I wouldn't breathe in any smoke, so could he please go to a smoking deck. He laughed and blew smoke at me. I got up to move away from the smoke and said he was very rude, he said I was rude for eating outside and not in a restaurant (which was a weird comment as I had got the food from the poolside bar) I was leaning over to the deck below to see if my bf was returning and as I turned back I caught him spitting in my food. I called him pathetic and sarcastically laughed and said his plan didn't work as I had seen what he had done, and wouldn't be touching the food now, he shouted in his own language and then at point blank range threw his drink in my face, i inhaled it and was choking and shouting for my bf as he ran off. 

 

In response to being told I've learned a valuable lesson- well I respectfully tell you that no I haven't! That response was callous and uncalled for

 I was attacked - regardless of it was actually assult in my vessels country. 

I am 100% aware that rules/laws are different onboard, but I didn't know exactly how, hence my post which clearly asks is there any point in pursuing this. I am not as you put it a  'US cruise passengers simply cannot fathom, that when you set foot on a vessel of another country, your home country's laws, rights, and protections go right overboard'

Maybe  be a little more kind and less condescending to someone asking for advice, especially if that person was attacked, and when they clearly have said in their op they also know it may be possible nothing can be done.

 

 

I tried to push it higher onboard, but I had very little energy. The security when called for by the waiter told me to wait, they took 20 mins, if they had come immediately they would have caught him. I told them what happened, and asked them to speak to the nearest people as they saw what happened as witnesses security just said sorry and I should go to reception as he couldn't speak the language of the witnesses, at reception they were shocked I had been sent there and called security back to do a report. They didn't take the witness names or cabins so they were lost as I couldn't remember what they looked like. Then they took 1 day to come back to us with photos of the potential perpetrator, we had described him as white with olive /tan skin, we were shown 10 black & Asian passengers, it took them another day to show as more photos and we identified the man this time.

Then another day later and they say they have found and spoken to him. And that's it, I asked what would happen and told nothing. Even just the fact he was smoking an illegal substance I thought would have meant the ship took it seriously. But obviously not.

 

 

I understand after the comments that if I want police involved then I need to do this in Italy, My follow up question would be does anyone speak or read Italian or know if my attack would be against the law in Italy as it is in the UK?