unfair cancellation fees

[amityrb]

Here is your review text:
We were to celebrate our 60th Anniversary while seeing new Asian ports. We paid Holland America(H.A.) to book our air on Cathay Pacific. I take a Portable oxygen concentrator(POC) on the plane for use at our destination(not on the plane). We complied with airline rules and provided a Dr.'s statement on their forms saying I am fit to fly.  At the airport, during check in, they informed me that the airline medical team said I wasn't fit to fly. We didn't fly and missed the cruise. H.A. is charging cancellation fees that include what we paid them for airfare. The airline seems willing to give a refund if H.A. calls them as the travel agent who paid them. Instead H.A. is penalizing me that amount. They say we cancelled, but their chosen airline disregarded our Dr.'s testimony that I am fit to fly.  Being denied to travel is not cancelling. Very poor customer relations.

[mawvkysc]

So sorry this happened to you. 

[Hlitner]

WOW, what a horrible mess.  You do everything the airline requests and they still reject?  You do not mention having travel insurance, so we assume that does not apply.  We have some suggestions.  Make sure to document everything that has happened (write yourself a memo with timeline) since events can slip from one's memory over time.

 

Make sure to contact HAL, in writing (e-mail or snail mail) and keep a file of hard copies of all correspondence.  If you are not getting any satisfaction then you might want to contact Chris Elliott, who has a travel advocacy group that can be very helpful.  His website is www.elliott.org.  These folks should be able to provide you with professional advice and may be able to help with HAL and Cathy Pacific.  

 

Having had some prior issues (related to travel claims) I would pass along some basic rules.  Always keep your cool (do not get angry at those with whom you must deal), put on your patience hat (resolving this kind of issue can take many months), always be polite (you get more with honey), and do not give up!  That last is very important since there are various organizations (especially insurance companies) that like to wear folks down and hope they simply go away! 

 

Hope this all works out.

 

Hank

[OlsSalt]

On what grounds did the "airline medical team" declare you were unfit to fly? (Please do not reply since this is private medical information). But this will be pivotal to any future case you might have,  so be sure you document that. Was this error on their part,  or was this within their express noticed guidelines?

 

Not sure HAL has any refund obligations in this case, but you could have a case against the airlines if there was material error in their assessment or pre-notification of their requirements or validity of a "doctor's assessment" of fitness to fly.

 

 This is  very unfortunate circumstance and a reminder for all. Thanks for bringing up these potential travel compromise issues. 

[Heidi13]

If the airline determined that you were unfit to fly, based on the information you provided, surely they have a responsibility to advise the customer they are unable to fly, before the customer presents at the airport for the flight. If the customer was not permitted to fly, why did the airline not cancel the booking.

 

In the marine industry, it is becoming increasingly more common where local doctor decisions are submitted for review at a higher level. Our seafarer medical fitness physicals are completed by a local approved doctor, who recommends whether you pass/fail. The results are then sent to Transport Canada in Ottawa, who make the final decision and can over-rule the local doctor.

[Tampa Girl]

2 hours ago, OlsSalt said:

On what grounds did the "airline medical team" declare you were unfit to fly? (Please do not reply since this is private medical information). But this will be pivotal to any future case you might have,  so be sure you document that. Was this error on their part,  or was this within their express noticed guidelines?

 

Not sure HAL has any refund obligations in this case, but you could have a case against the airlines if there was material error in their assessment or pre-notification of their requirements or validity of a "doctor's assessment" of fitness to fly.

 

 This is  very unfortunate circumstance and a reminder for all. Thanks for bringing up these potential travel compromise issues. 

 

I tend to think that HAL has no duty to refund the money.  It appears that the airline is the one responsible.  What is the difference between being denied boarding either the ship or a plane enroute to the ship when, suddenly, a Covid test reveals that one is positive?  HAL has no control over the airline's policy.  There is a reason for insurance and if the OP didn't choose to go that route, her recourse may be solely against the airline.

[Torquer]

Wow...so sorry to hear this story.  It sounds like the flight was booked with HAL's Flight Ease, although the OP didn't actually use those words.  So HAL might indeed be legally on the hook here, since they effectively played the part of a travel agent in booking the flights.  I certainly hope this can be resolved and you get all your money refunded without having to get a lawyer involved.  I also hope you paid for all of this via your credit card, since a chargeback might work in this case.

[OlsSalt]

When a doctor declares someone is "fit to fly" do they do this in conformance with that particularl airline's policies in hand, type of plane, distance traveled etc? Or is it just a generalized  permission declaration. 

 

Those with CPOD are at the top of the list for airlines to deny boarding since cabin pressurization and distance traveled are important personal safety considerations.  Interesting topic worth more discussion as to the detail required and does this differ airline to airline, plane to plane, etc.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

Did you have Travel Protection Insurance? If you had HAL's Platinum Insurance this would have been covered and refunded at 90% no questions asked. If you had another travel Insurance I would certainly be looking into filing with them.

[TiogaCruiser]

10 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

When a doctor declares someone is "fit to fly" do they do this in conformance with that particularl airline's policies in hand, type of plane, distance traveled etc? Or is it just a generalized  permission declaration. 

 

Those with CPOD are at the top of the list for airlines to deny boarding since cabin pressurization and distance traveled are important personal safety considerations.  Interesting topic worth more discussion as to the detail required and does this differ airline to airline, plane to plane, etc.

These were some of the things I was mulling over also. This flight would likely be a trans-pac and places to land could be very limited. Also, a red flag that went up for me was an apparent need for supplemental O2 in some circumstances but not during flight (in a cabin not pressurized to sea level)? As olsalt said earlier- not asking this of OP due to privacy,  - but it is certainly part of the equation that can determine “fairness”, which is being questioned. 

A question for anyone who wants to answer from experience- perhaps @LAFFNVEGAS who is a TA:

 

When one purchases flight tickets, is there a process they have to go through when certain special needs exist like when one books a cruise?  Does one have to pre-declare oxygen or other needs at the time of booking, or are those matters dealt with at the gate?

If so, that would be the best time to confirm flight is within policy of the airline who is providing transportation and get the Flight Medical team’s approval. A personal physician can’t speak for the airline.

[Mary229]

I am sorry this happened but to make this simpler and more commonplace consider if the flight had been delayed due to weather causing a missed cruise - would that also be HAL’s fault?.  No, that is an often cited reason for travel insurance not just by forum participants but by those who advertise insurance.  You may have to explain this to your insurance provider in those terms and hope that your preexisting condition did not violate the terms of the insurance 

 

I assume someone with a health condition carries insurance 

Edited February 3 by Mary229

[LAFFNVEGAS]

2 hours ago, TiogaCruiser said:

These were some of the things I was mulling over also. This flight would likely be a trans-pac and places to land could be very limited. Also, a red flag that went up for me was an apparent need for supplemental O2 in some circumstances but not during flight (in a cabin not pressurized to sea level)? As olsalt said earlier- not asking this of OP due to privacy,  - but it is certainly part of the equation that can determine “fairness”, which is being questioned. 

A question for anyone who wants to answer from experience- perhaps @LAFFNVEGAS who is a TA:

 

When one purchases flight tickets, is there a process they have to go through when certain special needs exist like when one books a cruise?  Does one have to pre-declare oxygen or other needs at the time of booking, or are those matters dealt with at the gate?

If so, that would be the best time to confirm flight is within policy of the airline who is providing transportation and get the Flight Medical team’s approval. A personal physician can’t speak for the airline.

There normally is a process that need to be done but it is totally up to the Traveler to advise the airline. I have to admit the way it was described there would not be any North American Airline that would be that strict when when it comes to airlines outside North America rules do change. Although based on what is being written they may have done what they were suppose to do. This is where Travel Insurance would be extremely important.

 

[bajae]

Please note that OPs complaint is that the airline is willing to refund the money for the flight but that money will go to HAL since HAL booked the flight but HAL is telling the OP they will not return the money paid for the flight back to the OP. 

[Toofarfromthesea]

Were HAL or the airline on notice that there was a health issue before hand?  Or was there an assumption on the part of the OP that presenting the Drs. note at boarding was sufficient?  As described it sounds like latter, and if so I don't see how OP has a leg to stand on.  The Drs. note can't override the airline's rules, and if the airline wasn't made aware of the issue ahead of time what are they supposed to do?

[Mary229]

13 hours ago, bajae said:

Please note that OPs complaint is that the airline is willing to refund the money for the flight but that money will go to HAL since HAL booked the flight but HAL is telling the OP they will not return the money paid for the flight back to the OP. 

HAL has a contract with flight ease a separate company who gave the money to the airline.  Airlines usually will issue a flight credit.   I think there is confusion from the OP.  
 

Regardless this is an insurance issue since all contracted service providers acted according to their own contracts.  Perhaps @iamtrustworthy could weigh in on insurance related possibilities.  We don’t know about the OP’s insurance but that discussion may save others a similar fate 

[Real NHDOC]

It seems inherently unfair that any travel service provider that denies a customer what they have paid for isn’t at least responsible for refunding their money. After all the airline chose to accept the fare paid. If the customer had lied on some pre-purchase questionnaire or failed to provide information required I can see it getting complicated but the basis of denial of service should have been clear to the customer before they booked the trip. Unilaterally imposing a subjective standard of “fitness to fly” when the customer shows up to fly doesn’t seem to cut it. 
 

I would consider first trying to dispute the charge on their credit card and if that fails then small claims court as an option to seek justice in this case in the event that the OP cannot get their money back. 

[whattodo]

OP, I'm so sorry about what happened. I hope HAL will step up to make things right. 

I have an experience traveling with my brother on Japan Airlines from US to Tokyo. He must use medical equipment during the flight for his heart. Japan Airlines requires the doctor to fill out the airline's medical form disclosing details of his condition and specification of the equipment. They won't accept the doctor's letter. Along with that, they asked for pictures of the equipment and manufacturer's manual. Airline's special assistance department took 2+ weeks to review and approved him to board. We were lucky to find out their rules before travel date. 

[IAcruising]

OP, I'm with you.

But based on the title of this thread: what would you consider a "fair" cancellation fee?

 

[cruisemom42]

12 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

Were HAL or the airline on notice that there was a health issue before hand?  Or was there an assumption on the part of the OP that presenting the Drs. note at boarding was sufficient?  As described it sounds like latter, and if so I don't see how OP has a leg to stand on.  The Drs. note can't override the airline's rules, and if the airline wasn't made aware of the issue ahead of time what are they supposed to do?

 

I don't know how you got to that conclusion. The OP clearly stated that

 

"We complied with airline rules and provided a Dr.'s statement on their forms saying I am fit to fly." 

 

OP, it sounds like a mess and one of those situations where it is all too easy for all the parties involved to claim it wasn't their fault. Good luck to you in getting your money back.

 

[IAcruising]

20 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

OP, it sounds like a mess and one of those situations where it is all too easy for all the parties involved to claim it wasn't their fault. Good luck to you in getting your money back.

 

And that's the end line, right? Who deserves money, and who just wants money?

 

[1025cruise]

What has your travel insurance said about the situation?

[Iamthesea]

I don't think that we are going to hear back for the OP.   Sounds like the post was more of a vent. 👧

[VMax1700]

On 2/2/2024 at 4:26 PM, amityrb said:

Here is your review text:

What is the significance of this?

Has OP submitted a review somewhere?  Google is not finding anything else except this thread.

[*Miss G*]

3 hours ago, VMax1700 said:

What is the significance of this?

Has OP submitted a review somewhere?  Google is not finding anything else except this thread.

 

I wondered about that sentence, too, but figured it would be a waste of time asking.  I was wondering if it was something he was intending to send to HAL and may have been asking us for our thoughts.  

 

And now you’ve made me comment on this thread.  lol

[TiogaCruiser]

You know, I think you might be right. OP has been a member since 2015 and this is only her fifth post. She might think CC is just a site for “reviews” and not understand the purpose of the forum.