Why is a turn around cruise (back to back) from Alaska not allowed?

[AlexandersinAlaska]

We wanted to sail from Seward, Ak to Vancouver, Canada and then return to Seward. NCL says it would be fine, but the travel agent and her manager both say it is a violation of the Passenger vessel act or Jones Act ( Maritime law): something about US customs not allowing it. I don't understand the issue at all. We are totally willing to completely get off and reboard if necessary.

   Can anyone validate that it is not allowed and explain why? Thank you

   

[JeffT237]

I have never heard that a B2B Alaska was not allowed, I thought it's actually a common practice. I'm interested to hear the responses on this. 

[AlexandersinAlaska]

Hi Jeff, maybe it has something to do with Canada being the terminal port, I don't know. In our limited reading of the vessel act parts so far, it sounds like all kinds of cruises are short of being legal. Foreign ports in Mexico, Canada, Bermuda, and Central America don't count as "Distant" foreign ports.

[Coral]

This is allowed. Your travel agent is wrong.

 

You could not do Seward to Vancouver and then to Seattle. Or Seward to Vancouver and then to Juneau. This is illegal.

 

As long as you start in Seward and end in Seward, you are fine. If you start in a different US city than you end, you have to visit a distant foreign port. You are not doing this. 

 

I would find a different agent or have your agent call NCL. Though cruise lines can be wrong on this also so you may need a supervisor.

 

 

[AlexandersinAlaska]

I like the idea of having our agent verify their beliefs with NCL. We know too little and they can hash out the differences. Thank you!

The travel agent is closed now so I can update tomorrow - maybe.

[Suzanne123]

I did the exact same itinerary on Celebrity Millennium in 2022.

[wolfie11]

I’ve done it on Princess.

[Glaciers]

We have done it on Princess from Whittier.

[Coral]

16 minutes ago, AlexandersinAlaska said:

I like the idea of having our agent verify their beliefs with NCL. We know too little and they can hash out the differences. Thank you!

The travel agent is closed now so I can update tomorrow - maybe.

Just tell them as long as it is round trip Seward, it is allowed. Roundtrip Vancouver is also allowed.

 

[Northern Aurora]

We also have done the exact same route (Seward to Vancouver back to Seward) on the Celebrity Millennium in 2017. This is a "legal" route under the PVSA. 

[Cbtours]

2 hours ago, AlexandersinAlaska said:

We wanted to sail from Seward, Ak to Vancouver, Canada and then return to Seward. NCL says it would be fine, but the travel agent and her manager both say it is a violation of the Passenger vessel act or Jones Act ( Maritime law): something about US customs not allowing it. I don't understand the issue at all. We are totally willing to completely get off and reboard if necessary.

   Can anyone validate that it is not allowed and explain why? Thank you

   

We did Vancouver return last May, as one journey but many did it as back to back.

[Heidi13]

3 hours ago, AlexandersinAlaska said:

We wanted to sail from Seward, Ak to Vancouver, Canada and then return to Seward. NCL says it would be fine, but the travel agent and her manager both say it is a violation of the Passenger vessel act or Jones Act ( Maritime law): something about US customs not allowing it. I don't understand the issue at all. We are totally willing to completely get off and reboard if necessary.

   Can anyone validate that it is not allowed and explain why? Thank you

   

 

The short answer is that you need a new travel agent.

 

Your country has separate Cabotage Acts for passenger and cargo shipping, with the Passenger Vessel Services Act applying to the shipment of pax and what is known as the Jones Act applying to cargo.

 

Under the PVSA, your cruise is a closed loop cruise, as it departs and returns to the same port. The PVSA does not consider it 2 separate cruises, or a B2B, the Act only considers the embarkation and disembarkation ports.

 

The PVSA requirements for carrying pax on a closed-loop cruise on foreign-flagged tonnage, is the ship MUST visit any foreign port. Vancouver is a foreign port, so meets the PVSA requirement. Visiting a distant foreign port is only required when the embarkation and disembarkation ports are not the same.

 

Canada also has a Cabotage Act, but it is not applicable, as you are boarding and disembarking in a US port.

 

You may want to ask your travel agent why cruise lines sail R/T cruises from Seattle to Alaska, without any issues?

[Aquahound]

4 hours ago, AlexandersinAlaska said:

We wanted to sail from Seward, Ak to Vancouver, Canada and then return to Seward. NCL says it would be fine, but the travel agent and her manager both say it is a violation of the Passenger vessel act or Jones Act ( Maritime law): something about US customs not allowing it. I don't understand the issue at all. We are totally willing to completely get off and reboard if necessary.

   Can anyone validate that it is not allowed and explain why? Thank you

   

 

Heidi13 hit the nail square on the head.  Round trip from Seward with a B2B in Vancouver is totally legal under the PVSA.  I'm not gonna say get a new TA because I do not know your relationship with them but at minimum, they need to be educated on this.  

[Ferry_Watcher]

Speaking of Travel Agents, I can't tell you how many passengers arriving for a Carnival Alaska cruise last season (mostly from Tennessee) were told by their TA that their Real ID Driver's License (only) was sufficient ID to board the ship.  It was a mess. 

 

We had a similar B2B situation on a Celebrity ship at the end of 2022.  If memory serves me, we had the final sailing of the Solstice leaving Seattle, sailing to Alaska, ending in Vancouver, BC.  Since it was the end of the Alaska season the Solstice was then headed off to it's next destination, which was an American port (may have been in CA or HI, before it's next Homeport).  Anyway, the folks on that first part of the B2B sailing (Seattle to Vancouver) were fortunate because the ship also had a port-of-call in Victoria, BC.  Celebrity was able to reach out to most of the passengers affected and told them they could/needed to get off the ship in Victoria, where they spent the night, then get themselves from Victoria to Vancouver by the next day and reboard the ship.  As some of you know I work at Pier 91 Seattle, and there were about 8-10 passengers that were affected, but didn't know, and we had to tell them at check-in that if they wanted to continue with the second half of their B2B cruise, that getting off in Victoria was their only option.  Most took it in stride, and luckily they had 7 days to figure out the logistics.

[Ladyaruba]

We did b2b in 2022 from Vancouver to Whittier and back to Vancouver. Same ship, same cabin!

[Heidi13]

15 hours ago, Ladyaruba said:

We did b2b in 2022 from Vancouver to Whittier and back to Vancouver. Same ship, same cabin!

 

Since you departed from a Canadian port and the OP is departing from a US port, your experience is not applicable.

 

In boarding and disembarking in Vancouver, you were subject to Canadian Cabotage regulations, specifically the Coasting Trade Act. Since no Canadian tonnage is available, this type of voyage is permitted.

 

When boarding and disembarking in Seward, the OP is subject to the US Cabotage Laws, specifically the Passenger Vessel Services Act.

[wcook]

Seems to me that as long as NCL is willing to book the cruise, it doesn’t really matter what the travel agent thinks. 
 

But, yeah, the other posters have correctly explained the legalities. 

[Ferry_Watcher]

14 hours ago, wcook said:

Seems to me that as long as NCL is willing to book the cruise, it doesn’t really matter what the travel agent thinks. 
 

But, yeah, the other posters have correctly explained the legalities. 

 

That's like a cruise passenger telling me (a check-in agent) that their Real ID Driver's License is all they need to board a cruise ship because someone from the cruise line (consultant/call center) mistakenly gave them incorrect information.

 

For this OP, it is frustrating, and unfortunate since they will have to absorb the cost and inconvenience of getting to Seattle from Vancouver, along with hotel charges and maybe flight change expenses.  Plus, they miss out on seeing Alaska.

 

At least they were notified 2 1/2 months before the first cruise (and hopefully received a full refund for the second cruise).  

[broberts]

11 minutes ago, Ferry_Watcher said:

 

That's like a cruise passenger telling me (a check-in agent) that their Real ID Driver's License is all they need to board a cruise ship because someone from the cruise line (consultant/call center) mistakenly gave them incorrect information.

 

For this OP, it is frustrating, and unfortunate since they will have to absorb the cost and inconvenience of getting to Seattle from Vancouver, along with hotel charges and maybe flight change expenses.  Plus, they miss out on seeing Alaska.

 

At least they were notified 2 1/2 months before the first cruise (and hopefully received a full refund for the second cruise).  

 

According to OP, booking is Seaward to Vancouver then Vancouver to Seaward.

[donaldsc]

On 2/26/2024 at 4:16 PM, Coral said:

Just tell them as long as it is round trip Seward, it is allowed. Roundtrip Vancouver is also allowed.

 

 

Better yet try to change your TA.  They are being inept.  Just think what serious damage they could do to your travel plans.  I would not trust that TA to try to have you buy a ticket on the Staten Island ferry.

 

DON

[Coral]

32 minutes ago, donaldsc said:

 

Better yet try to change your TA.  They are being inept.  Just think what serious damage they could do to your travel plans.  I would not trust that TA to try to have you buy a ticket on the Staten Island ferry.

 

DON

My TA knew a route was illegal (LA to Vancouver to Honolulu). She called Princess several times and had a difficult time convincing those on the other end that it was illegal (the client was told it was legal by the cruise line). Eventually her call got elevated to someone who knew but cruise line employees are not knowledgable about this either. It is a confusing law that only those of us obsessed with cruising understand. 

[sfaaa]

On 2/27/2024 at 8:36 AM, Ferry_Watcher said:

Speaking of Travel Agents, I can't tell you how many passengers arriving for a Carnival Alaska cruise last season (mostly from Tennessee) were told by their TA that their Real ID Driver's License (only) was sufficient ID to board the ship.  It was a mess. 

 

 

This probably was OK pre 9/11 but not since.

[Ferry_Watcher]

1 hour ago, sfaaa said:

This probably was OK pre 9/11 but not since.

 

While I can't speak to what was needed for ID documentation nearly 23 years ago, it is important to know what is required today for a cruise.  As someone who checks-in cruise passengers, I can say that there is always some unfortunate individual who shows up every week during cruise season who does not have the correct required documents, and sadly is denied boarding.  (If it is a US born citizen, then there is at least a chance that they can get a copy of their US gov't issued birth certificate and make on to the ship). 

 

It's always my hope that someone who has an upcoming cruise will read a post like this and will either take the knowledge for themselves, or share it with their traveling companions - and we have one less boarding denial

[Coral]

16 hours ago, sfaaa said:

This probably was OK pre 9/11 but not since.

Real ID was signed into law in 2005. So didn't exist before 9/11.

[poohbear8]

On 3/1/2024 at 6:21 PM, Coral said:

My TA knew a route was illegal (LA to Vancouver to Honolulu). She called Princess several times and had a difficult time convincing those on the other end that it was illegal (the client was told it was legal by the cruise line). Eventually her call got elevated to someone who knew but cruise line employees are not knowledgable about this either. It is a confusing law that only those of us obsessed with cruising understand. 

I ran into this last year also. I had booked with an online TA for Celebrity Vancouver to Hawaii. After doing some research, I decided I might as well see Alaska since I was on that side of the country. I found the Celebrity Seaward to Vancouver the week before which would have been perfect. The TA told me I could, despite my saying I didn't think it was allowed. I called Celebrity and they too said it was ok. People here said it would not be allowed, and then I  found copies of letters shared from others who had their trips changed or cancelled by the cruise line for for this B2B itinerary.

 

I called I called Celebrity again and that rep went to a supervisor who said I could not do the B2B. (I later found out it was flagged in red on the computers after I called, so they didn't have it set up to tell passengers yet)

 

I eventually got a new TA who also had to do a ton of research to confirm I would be ok with a Royal Seaward to Vancouver, then a Celebrity Vancouver to Hawaii, which seems fine, but same parent company, she wanted to be 100% sure. She had to get a supervisors on both lines to get the confirmation it would be ok, cause the regular reps didn't know.

 

So I agree, not all reps fully understand the issue. I was very grateful for this board and those who helped break it down for me!