Smaller Ships

[JMAE]

No smaller ships in the future. I hope CCL remains committed to the ports that have size limitations. 

 

 

https://www.cruisehive.com/carnival-looking-bigger-and-better-no-new-small-ships/124945

[bg2310]

Important point:

 

“There are no plans at all for us … to build smaller ships,” Heald said. “It is not profitable, it is not something that is affordable, and it is not something that attracts the new cruiser.”

 

Considering the size of their debt and other realities of the market, it just doesn’t make sense to go smaller.

 

Sorry for the folks who prefer that, you will have to be happy with what's already out there. At least when it comes to CCL and the other mass market cruise lines. 

[john91498]

While I enjoyed my time on The Elation, she was my first cruise back in 1999, I doubt I'll ever step foot on her again. I'm looking forward to bigger and better ships.

[jsglow]

Not surprised. I guess the good news is that Carnival's smaller ships will remain active for the rest of my years of frequent cruising. And there are other lines (HAL, for example) to meet my needs as well. It's another reason why Carnival Corp needs to allow VIFP points portability for their most loyal guests.  I'm sure I'll give the Excels a try but there's zero chance I'll spend 50 days a year at sea riding Jubilee to the same 3 ports or going repeatedly to Celebration Key aboard Celebration.

[BlerkOne]

40 minutes ago, bg2310 said:

Important point:

 

“There are no plans at all for us … to build smaller ships,” Heald said. “It is not profitable, it is not something that is affordable, and it is not something that attracts the new cruiser.”

 

Considering the size of their debt and other realities of the market, it just doesn’t make sense to go smaller.

 

Sorry for the folks who prefer that, you will have to be happy with what's already out there. At least when it comes to CCL and the other mass market cruise lines. 

Never say never. But what is implied in that statement is what we all knew - Carnival's target market is NEW Cruisers. Which means all the grousing by mature customers about a loyalty/marketing program is for naught.

[jsglow]

4 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Never say never. But what is implied in that statement is what we all knew - Carnival's target market is NEW Cruisers. Which means all the grousing by mature customers about a loyalty/marketing program is for naught.

I'm not so sure Blerk. While I understand the strategy of needing to attract new, letting existing get away to the competition seems foolish. Any I do think I remember JH acknowledging that recently.

[tidecat]

Elation already has a drydock scheduled for 2026, and presumably Paradise will shortly follow. Those ships should be in the fleet until at least 2028, if not 2029.

 

The Spirit class was built entirely after 2000, those will be with us well into the next decade. Luminosa should continue into the early 2040s.

 

I suspect the ultimate fate of Tampa, Jacksonville, and Baltimore will lie with more upmarket lines that have smaller ships, like Holland America and Seabourn. The masses will continue sailing from Port Canaveral, Miami, and Galveston.

 

I also think Carnival Cruise Line may pick off some AIDA ships, which may buy the height-restricted ports some time. That would still be a few years down the road if it happens, though.

[BlerkOne]

25 minutes ago, jsglow said:

I'm not so sure Blerk. While I understand the strategy of needing to attract new, letting existing get away to the competition seems foolish. Any I do think I remember JH acknowledging that recently.

Existing customers don't pay for new ships - new customers do. Once upon a time JH acknowledged Carnival gets sufficient repeat business or they would change to try to retain more. Frankly, Carnival needs to dump some more existing customers.

[dlphn501]

35 minutes ago, tidecat said:

I suspect the ultimate fate of Tampa, Jacksonville, and Baltimore will lie with more upmarket lines that have smaller ships, like Holland America and Seabourn.

 

Jacksonville is getting a new ship "soon".  The rumor is an NCL ship, but idk if it's been confirmed.

[starstruck05]

Carnival already showed us what the plan is. It's going to keep smaller ships just not build new ones which is exactly what John said. They will move ships from the other brands, like they are already doing, and take out the aging ships when the time comes. It assures smaller sized ships for at least the next few decades without having to build completely new smaller ships. I thought that seemed obvious.

[stobe1]

10 minutes ago, dlphn501 said:

 

Jacksonville is getting a new ship "soon".  The rumor is an NCL ship, but idk if it's been confirmed.

It isn't a rumor. NCL announced a while back that they would begin sailing from JAX in 2025.

Edited March 1 by stobe1

[May1cruiser]

okay, so sprit and fantasy class fit in Tampa and Jax. Does anyone know how much Conquest class are too large for those ports? I know its height. Can they just shorten the funnel? 

 

[BeachChik]

1 hour ago, jsglow said:

I'm not so sure Blerk. While I understand the strategy of needing to attract new, letting existing get away to the competition seems foolish. Any I do think I remember JH acknowledging that recently.

Not really. A frequent cruiser spend bare minimum. They don’t buy souvenirs, pictures, ship sponsored shore excursions etc. All those things that are pure profit for the cruise line. Plus they want freebies. 
 

I don’t know why anyone would be shocked by this. It’s the same with Disney. They don’t want the local, the annual pass holder, the person using comp tickets. They want the overseas visitor that will stay three weeks and never leave property. 
 

New visitors/cruisers will always be the people that bring in the most revenue. 

[bg2310]

2 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Never say never. But what is implied in that statement is what we all knew - Carnival's target market is NEW Cruisers. Which means all the grousing by mature customers about a loyalty/marketing program is for naught.

Certainly not. I for one hope they do build smaller ships. For now, it looks like that is not in the cards but doesn't mean they can't one day in the future, especially once their older ships get to a point that they cannot simply "invest" in them anymore.

[JMAE]

37 minutes ago, bg2310 said:

Certainly not. I for one hope they do build smaller ships. For now, it looks like that is not in the cards but doesn't mean they can't one day in the future, especially once their older ships get to a point that they cannot simply "invest" in them anymore.

Totally agree, if CCL plays follow the "leader" RCCL indicated recently they are looking at some smaller ship builds. 

Edited March 2 by JMAE

[BlerkOne]

14 minutes ago, JMAE said:

Totally agree, if CCL plays follow the "leader" RCCL indicated recently they are looking at some smaller ship builds. 

Yes, RCCL is looking to follow Carnival and some smaller builds.

[BlerkOne]

51 minutes ago, bg2310 said:

Certainly not. I for one hope they do build smaller ships. For now, it looks like that is not in the cards but doesn't mean they can't one day in the future, especially once their older ships get to a point that they cannot simply "invest" in them anymore.

I'm not quite sure how they would do that. They aren't going to build anymore Fantasy, Spirit, etc ships. They aren't going to bring back Joe Farcus. It would have to be new designs with the latest technologies, and would the old customers go for it?

 

I can see them transferring ships in from other Carnival brands, or maybe even buying rejects from other cruise lines, and Carnivalize  them.

 

I like the older, small ships, but also know it isn't feasible to try to live in the past.

[jerseyjjs]

15 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Yes, RCCL is looking to follow Carnival and some smaller builds.

  

 

LOL   Trust me, RCCL isn't looking to Carnival for inspiration for ship design.

[firefly333]

38 minutes ago, JMAE said:

Totally agree, if CCL plays follow the "leader" RCCL indicated recently they are looking at some smaller ship builds. 

I wouldnt count on smaller builds from rcl either. Looking or thinking about something said in answer to a question, didnt rule it out, but then announced another as yet unnamed oasis class ship next to be built. 

 

Seems icon class is very expensive to build, quite a bit more than oasis class. Icon and star are the only announced icon class ships. Utopia is coming and after star will be another oasis class they said recently. I was shocked how much more expensive than oasis class.

 

Recent itineraries show rcl is moving to do big ships on shorter routes. Wonder currently the newest oasis class being moved to s. Florida to do 3 and 4 days. Other short routes announced. Huge disappointment. People are looking at carnival lol for another line.

[BlerkOne]

40 minutes ago, jerseyjjs said:

  

 

LOL   Trust me, RCCL isn't looking to Carnival for inspiration for ship design.

They need to look to someone. I see RCCL has already canceled the inaugural cruise or two of Star of the Seas. Could RCCL be having trouble with financing?

[tidecat]

3 hours ago, dlphn501 said:

 

Jacksonville is getting a new ship "soon".  The rumor is an NCL ship, but idk if it's been confirmed.

NCL to Jacksonville has been confirmed with the Gem sailing seasonally from there. NCL's Jewel class and CCL's Spirit class came out within a few years of each other. Ultimately NCL is going to run into the same problem that Carnival will, and that they can't afford to build a smaller non-luxury ship either.

[dolphinsfan246]

Yes Royal Caribbean has said that they are looking into “smaller” ships but let’s be honest their version of a “smaller” ship is still gonna come in around 130-160k tons. The days of the under 100k tons and 2,000 PAX range are long gone for the main stream lines. It’s just too expensive to build these days, and the cost per berth needed to turn a profit with 2,000 guests on board is more in line with the luxury lines. If Carnival really needs to expand their smaller fleet to accommodate the bridge locked ports, I could see more transfers similar to Luminosa.  However I think it’s more likely the cruise industry will put those ports in a strangle hold to move their terminals or lose out. 

[firefly333]

2 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

They need to look to someone. I see RCCL has already canceled the inaugural cruise or two of Star of the Seas. Could RCCL be having trouble with financing?

Pushed it back by 2 weeks august 2025 so people havent even booked flights or hotels. You can move to the august 31st date price protected. Or to another ship same week, 3 options. I think also to another week with star was the 3rd option.

 

Jubilee was pushed back to last xmas, I'm sure you were busy posting worrying that carnival was having trouble with financing when it was pushed back even more weeks. Did carnival offer to move people price protected? I'm sure they did right lol. You sure love to make up stuff about rcl hahahahaha. You are so funny. Last I read the bean counter at rcl said 40% year over year earnings. A little too much accounting imo. Too much into making money. 

 

I think the ship builder had a problem with ice set them back. Imagine ice in the winter. 

 

Still looking for Mardi gras once I get moved to florida. 

[BlerkOne]

7 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

Pushed it back by 2 weeks august 2025 so people havent even booked flights or hotels. You can move to the august 31st date price protected. Or to another ship same week, 3 options. I think also to another week with star was the 3rd option.

So far only two weeks. Price protected? Could they charge any more?

 

7 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

Jubilee was pushed back to last xmas, I'm sure you were busy posting worrying that carnival was having trouble with financing when it was pushed back even more weeks. Did carnival offer to move people price protected? I'm sure they did right lol. You sure love to make up stuff about rcl hahahahaha. You are so funny. Last I read the bean counter at rcl said 40% year over year earnings. A little too much accounting imo. Too much into making money. 

 

You love to make up stuff about me and take little jabs, but wrong as usual. I have no intention of cruising on Jubilee, much less anything larger 

 

7 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

 

 

[firefly333]

20 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

So far only two weeks. Price protected? Could they charge any more?

 

 

You love to make up stuff about me and take little jabs, but wrong as usual. I have no intention of cruising on Jubilee, much less anything larger 

 

 

I'm not the one who asked if rcl was having trouble with financing because they delayed inaugural... never happened before right?

 

My beef with the new ceo is he was promoted from accounting and seems too focused on that and not making customers happy. I'd like to see them bring in some better Mdr menus. Like carnival is doing. 

 

I did look at what ships go out of PC and dont like italian so dont want that italian ship, Venezia and I saw vista. Done vista enough out of texas. Mardi gras all I saw I have any interest in. Doesnt make sense to move to a port and then go elsewhere to cruise. Have may 2025 to dec 2025 I'm looking to cruise. Just looking for now.