Smaller Ships

[firefly333]

30 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Maybe YOU could quit taking and making things personal with your own jabs.

I'm not the one who said maybe royal is having financial difficulties if star is 2 weeks late inaugural. I think sometimes you love stirring the pot now playing innocent. 

 

Now that we put that remark to rest..

 

Looking at PC, one journey cruise, starting at about $3500, Venezia. Nice itinerary, wouldnt have picked that ship. One I'll watch though. I wish it was a different ship. Love the ports.

 

Princess and ncl also. I'd like to try HAL but doesnt go from PC. People still prefer the food on HAL. Princess has some less than 100% solo supplements. 

 

I'm a fan of spirit class myself. Did spirit class to alaska. 

[jimbo5544]

49 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

No chance of Carnival building a Spirit class, for example. But I do think a similar size is possible, although it might not resemble what people remember. There would have to be radical changes to control costs.

 

Carnival is trying a somewhat different direction with Carnival Italian Style. They could pick up one or two of the older HAL ships for a test run of a new concept. and maybe a grandson of Vargas.

Maybe on the Costa ships.  The ones I have seen lack enough pools (from what I have seen, not been on a one yet).  Was supposed to be on Venzia but had a conflict.  At some point some of those homeports that cannot take a Conquest class or larger due to beodge height issues.  When the remaining two Fantasy class ships and Spirit class go, something has to go (might be those homeports).

[n6uqqq]

3 hours ago, jsglow said:

So what I'm taking comfort in is the fact that Carnival's short term plan is to take a Spirit Class over one at a time for an extended dry dock before she begins European service in summer. Last year it was Pride, this year Legend, and next year Miracle. I suspect Spirit herself will go sometime. Frankly, besides the two Fantasy hulls, the most 'obsolete' ships in the fleet are Glory, Liberty and Conquest. I personally think they'll be gone before any of the Spirits.

 

And while Carnival Cruise Line might eventually leave the smaller ships behind, I can't envision the industry doing that. You simply can't 'travel the world' on a mega ship and a market for that will always exist. All one has to do is go to Dun Laoghaire to understand. And while it's true that the industry growth will come from the 'Disneyfication' of cruising, that's really a different product offering and there is a limit. As I said earlier, I'll spend way fewer days at sea annually if my only option is Jubilee and her 3 ports.

 

So the only question is how that 'world traveler' market gets served? The good news is that I won't have to ever know the answer. But there will certainly be an answer.

The Spirit is actually going into dry dock before the Miracle from Jan 30, 2025 to March 15th. It will also be going across the pond for dry dock. I am expecting them to do to the Spirit the same things as Pride...... lower level night club removed and becoming 5 new rooms and a dedicated chef's table. Also card room on deck 2 near coffee shop converted into Carnival Adventurers store. And a fair guess would be that the table cloth in the MDR will be "curtains" with the tables being converted like the rest of the fleet away from the white vinyl/plastic. It appears the sailing to Europe for the dry dock will be a non revenue trip, as no cruises shown for trip over.

Edited March 3 by n6uqqq

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, n6uqqq said:

The Spirit is actually going into dry dock before the Miracle from Jan 30, 2025 to March 15th. It will also be going across the pond for dry dock. I am expecting them to do to the Spirit the same things as Pride...... lower level night club removed and becoming 5 new rooms and a dedicated chef's table. Also card room on deck 2 near coffee shop converted into Carnival Adventurers store. And a fair guess would be that the table cloth in the MDR will be "curtains" with the tables being converted like the rest of the fleet away from the white vinyl/plastic. It appears the sailing to Europe for the dry dock will be a non revenue trip, as no cruises shown for trip over.

Legend is going in April. Should offer some clues.

[n6uqqq]

32 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Legend is going in April. Should offer some clues.

I watched a video on the Pride post dry dock and they did a good job imho although some will miss the card room. The night club looked pretty good for the conversion to one level only. Hopefully the Legend and Miracle will add the big screen to the pool area. I think it is a nice touch for those who enjoy the dive in movies. 

[BlerkOne]

7 minutes ago, n6uqqq said:

I watched a video on the Pride post dry dock and they did a good job imho although some will miss the card room. The night club looked pretty good for the conversion to one level only. Hopefully the Legend and Miracle will add the big screen to the pool area. I think it is a nice touch for those who enjoy the dive in movies. 

I kind of liked the Chef's Table location on Miracle, with Frankie overlooking.

 

Edited March 3 by BlerkOne

[n6uqqq]

15 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

I kind of liked the Chef's Table location on Miracle, with Frankie overlooking.

 

I will miss Frankie also but I get one more shot with a January 2025 twelve day trip from Galveston to the ABC Islands which should be great. 

[jsglow]

They did do a nice job on Pride. I sailed her in October '22 and then again in August '23 after the dry dock.  It wasn't so much the new venues but rather that the public spaces were very nicely freshened up. Carpets were new, railings well varnished, etc. Now what didn't happen was any 'sunshining' of the cabins apart from (as I recall) new windows/balc doors. We had an OV so I can't comment. Also, the basic decor remained the same so let's not look at these like the 'rebirth' that the Destiny Class had.

[n6uqqq]

1 hour ago, jsglow said:

They did do a nice job on Pride. I sailed her in October '22 and then again in August '23 after the dry dock.  It wasn't so much the new venues but rather that the public spaces were very nicely freshened up. Carpets were new, railings well varnished, etc. Now what didn't happen was any 'sunshining' of the cabins apart from (as I recall) new windows/balc doors. We had an OV so I can't comment. Also, the basic decor remained the same so let's not look at these like the 'rebirth' that the Destiny Class had.

Sunshining the Spirit class would be the last thing on Earth I would want 😉 . Adding 5 rooms on deck 1 and chef's table room was quite modest. Thankfully I don't think the Spirit class can really be " sunshined" . 

[bg2310]

12 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

Not an economics major WAY back i college, but at 1.65 to 2 BILLION per ship, I might question the “not hurting for money” comment, but maybe I get confused at all those zeros.  Not to even mention those other ugly details like lack of ports they can dock on, no tender ports, market saturation.  So any comment on anything (other than “wow”) on royal is bias?

Of course, I meant relative to RCCL as another user seems to be under the impression they're doing worse off eventhough last I checked CCL had the larger mountain of debt to pay off, and a lower stock trading price.

 

I like both lines. And of course not any criticism against said cruise line amounts to "bias" but it does when it's incessant, in countless threads, and when it goes over the top and beyond just mere criticisms, but flat out prejudice.

[staceyglow]

50 minutes ago, bg2310 said:

Of course, I meant relative to RCCL as another user seems to be under the impression they're doing worse off eventhough last I checked CCL had the larger mountain of debt to pay off, and a lower stock trading price.

 

 

You cannot compare things like debt or stock price between two companies in an absolute sense.

 

It's like saying Person A is worse off than Person B because Person A has a larger mortgage.  There are many other factors one would have to take into consideration.

[jsglow]

2 hours ago, n6uqqq said:

Sunshining the Spirit class would be the last thing on Earth I would want 😉 . Adding 5 rooms on deck 1 and chef's table room was quite modest. Thankfully I don't think the Spirit class can really be " sunshined" . 

I certainly agree for any significant cabin additions. By 'sunshining' I'm simply referring to a $100+MM makeover that could someday include a cabin retrofit. I don't really have a guess on what they spent on Pride in '23. $20MM maybe?

[jimbo5544]

8 hours ago, staceyglow said:

You cannot compare things like debt or stock price between two companies in an absolute sense.

 

It's like saying Person A is worse off than Person B because Person A has a larger mortgage.  There are many other factors one would have to take into consideration.

I do ho think it was meant as a comparison, but more of a statement of fact.  Somebody has to pay the bills for all of the new builds.  When the discussion is about differences of hundreds of millions and billions, it takes on a whole new persepctive.  Add marjet saturation (at the very least in the Caribbean, and one can safely add the Med as well, and there will be one variable on how they can sustain the craziness.  It is an unsustainable model.

[jimbo5544]

8 hours ago, jsglow said:

I certainly agree for any significant cabin additions. By 'sunshining' I'm simply referring to a $100+MM makeover that could someday include a cabin retrofit. I don't really have a guess on what they spent on Pride in '23. $20MM maybe?

The number of room increases were small. (In comparison to say what they added to Elation) on the Pride.  The issue for those four ships (IMHO, and we love them and have sailed them a lot) is the phisical limitation of size in many areas, and the facts tied to mecahnicals age.

[dctravel]

On 3/1/2024 at 6:18 PM, dlphn501 said:

 

Jacksonville is getting a new ship "soon".  The rumor is an NCL ship, but idk if it's been confirmed.

It has been by the JAX Port Authority: https://www.jaxport.com/norwegian-cruise-line-to-sail-from-jaxport-beginning-in-2025/

[JMAE]

With RCCL announcement that sometime this year a new class of "smaller' ships will be introduced.  We know "currently" CCL has no plans for smaller ship builds.  I know this will be few years down the road, but I wonder how CCL will market their older ships to the newer RCCL "smaller" ships.  I believe RCCL effort would be to attract the seasoned cruiser not looking for the mega ships while enticing new cruisers at the same time.  I understand cruise lines market new cruises dollars to expand their clients base and profits, but it appears to me RCCL understands new cruises become seasoned cruisers and seasoned cruiser provides a reliable base for the industry.     

[jsglow]

50 minutes ago, JMAE said:

With RCCL announcement that sometime this year a new class of "smaller' ships will be introduced.  We know "currently" CCL has no plans for smaller ship builds.  I know this will be few years down the road, but I wonder how CCL will market their older ships to the newer RCCL "smaller" ships.  I believe RCCL effort would be to attract the seasoned cruiser not looking for the mega ships while enticing new cruisers at the same time.  I understand cruise lines market new cruises dollars to expand their clients base and profits, but it appears to me RCCL understands new cruises become seasoned cruisers and seasoned cruiser provides a reliable base for the industry.     

The other thing Carnival Corp can do is differentiate their offerings via cruise line a bit more effectively, something RCCL really can't do as they only have 2 brands. I'm back on my VIFP points portability soapbox I guess.

[Gamecock_Cruiser]

The Fantasy class is my favorite ships! They are certainly going to be missed when the remaining two are gone!

[dolphinsfan246]

58 minutes ago, jsglow said:

The other thing Carnival Corp can do is differentiate their offerings via cruise line a bit more effectively, something RCCL really can't do as they only have 2 brands. I'm back on my VIFP points portability soapbox I guess.

I would LOVE if Carnival Corp spread their VIP points among their brands. I’m really thinking about trying the new Sun Princess, if i could take my Platinum level on Carnival with me , I would have already booked it by now. 

[JMAE]

1 hour ago, jsglow said:

I'm back on my VIFP points portability soapbox I guess.

I agree, I believe this would be great for marketing while giving seasoned cruises additional options across their brands while recognizing this group's commitment to Carnival Corporation.   

[bstel]

On 3/3/2024 at 8:00 PM, n6uqqq said:

Sunshining the Spirit class would be the last thing on Earth I would want 😉 . Adding 5 rooms on deck 1 and chef's table room was quite modest. Thankfully I don't think the Spirit class can really be " sunshined" . 

Sure it can.  I can easily see these things happening in order to pack in more rooms. Not that I want to give them any ideas, since Spirit class are my favorite ships.  Sailing on Pride this Sunday.

 

1.  Get rid of the Deck 1 comedy lounge.

2.  Cut down the Main theatre from 3 decks to 2 decks like they did on Sunshine.

3.  Move Kids Clubs from front of ship on Deck 4 to a higher deck

4.  Get rid of 1 of 3 pools.  Probably the crown jewel aft pool, bye-bye Serenity with a pool.

5.  Expand square footage of upper decks, like 10/11.  Like they did on the Fantasy class. and move kids clubs up there or add some other type of pay restaurant.  No extra height though.

 

All of this will ruin what the Spirit class brings in terms of desirable traits, since these ships have way more common area per passenger than practically any other ship at sea.  But it will increase revenue to the Powers That Be.  Afterall if you are going to "Sunshine" a ship there has to be return on investment.  You can't just dump in $100M+ to make it look nicer without making it more profitable.

 

Sadly, small ship cruisers will have to take this trade.  A slightly more crowded Spirit class over a super crowded XL class.

[BlerkOne]

3 hours ago, jsglow said:

 I'm back on my VIFP points portability soapbox I guess.

Really the only people dreaming of this are Carnival cruisers. The other brands - not so much.

 

The Princess brand still counts cruises or sail days toward loyalty levels and it is much easier to get to the highest level on Princess than on Carnival.

[jsglow]

6 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Really the only people dreaming of this are Carnival cruisers. The other brands - not so much.

 

The Princess brand still counts cruises or sail days toward loyalty levels and it is much easier to get to the highest level on Princess than on Carnival.

While that's probably true, it's what corporate thinks is good is what counts.  My proposal has always been something like 'achieve Diamond on any brand, get 50% crossover to others'. I would never let a loyal Carnival cruiser leave for Celebrity when I can increase my chances of keeping him as a lifetime cruiser on Princess.

[BlerkOne]

43 minutes ago, jsglow said:

While that's probably true, it's what corporate thinks is good is what counts.  My proposal has always been something like 'achieve Diamond on any brand, get 50% crossover to others'. I would never let a loyal Carnival cruiser leave for Celebrity when I can increase my chances of keeping him as a lifetime cruiser on Princess.

I just don't see it. The number of Carnival cruisers dwarfs the number of cruisers on the other brands who "earned" their status. I don't think Corporate wants to drive away the really loyal customers for the other brands who already were shafted when Corp bought the brands.

 

Product (brand) differentiation is very important which includes loyalty programs. You don't want Carnival brands cannibalizing each other more than they already do. Carnival wants cruisers who cruise for the brand, not for perks.

[BlerkOne]

49 minutes ago, jsglow said:

While that's probably true, it's what corporate thinks is good is what counts.  My proposal has always been something like 'achieve Diamond on any brand, get 50% crossover to others'. I would never let a loyal Carnival cruiser leave for Celebrity when I can increase my chances of keeping him as a lifetime cruiser on Princess.

I can see a one time trial for Carnivores to try other brands, within limits - say only so many per cruise, first come, first served.