Looks like NCL isn't alone in its decline

[schmoopie17]

While perusing the Celebrity board today, I saw this.

 

We have one more X cruise and nothing booked with them after that.  The premium atmosphere on Celebrity has evaporated and we have grown tired of the corporate lip service, declining product, revenue generation schemes, and silly high prices.  There are many new and interesting cruise and vacation options out there.  Variety is the spice of life and we are now looking for smaller ships that deliver more a refined experience and value.

 

We've never been on Celebrity, but always considered them to be a notch higher (with prices to match) than NCL.

Looks like even the vaunted Celebrity has its own issues...and dissatisfied customers.

 

[kitkat343]

Cunard has made cutbacks post pandemic and they are talking about them on that board (the first time I sailed with them prepandemic  there were musicians playing harps in the  common areas and apparently they have cut down on the number of dance hosts).  When I sailed with them in January, for us it was still a lovely, wonderful experience.  Other passengers felt those cuts more significantly.  

 

On my recent Princess cruise, I also noticed that Princess has taken a bit of a  hit in terms of quality, with their food being weaker than it was before.  But overall they are still delivering a very strong product.

 

Ultimately, people need to decide if the advantages (which on NCL I believe is the value of their free at sea drink program) outweigh the cost cutting disadvantages (itinerary changes to help the environment after final payment that enable the ship to burn less fuel, cutbacks to entertainment).  I personally found the mainstream cruise lines to be more similar than different so passengers have to decide what will be best for them individually. 

Edited September 5 by kitkat343

[graphicguy]

I like Celebrity.  Haven’t sailed them in a couple of years, though!  Their fares are indeed high, just like her sister Royal.  

 

Was Celebrity “premium” vs NCL?  I dunno about that.  But, they are different enough. 

[Fredrik]

Great comparison that NCL is not the only ones cutting back everywhere. There is no doubt that the cut backs on menu items and food quality in ALL restaurants on NCL will bounce back within the next couple of years due to competion. We say it in the aftermath of 2001, the financial crises of 2008 and the pandemic. It will get better. ❤️‍🩹 

[luv2kroooz]

26 minutes ago, Fredrik said:

We say it in the aftermath of 2001, the financial crises of 2008 and the pandemic. It will get better. ❤️‍🩹 

When is the stock price going up?

[david_sobe]

Until the masses decide to stop cruising and they desperately need discounts to book cabins, the decline will continue to happen.  There is inflation and greedflation.  Because of the insane demand for cruises, the cruise lines have no reason to offer more perks to customers.  The entire strategy of NCL and others is not us loyal cruisers here on CC. They take our business for granted.  The marketing is for younger and first time cruisers.  They dont care if they ever cruise again.  Its the market demo everyone is going for.  Until they stop booking cruises the decline will continue.  

Edited September 5 by david_sobe

[asctony]

Seriously! All the cruise lines are doing the same thing. 

Cut backs in:

Quality & selection of food

Entertainment 

Free casual dining

Perks.

 

Increases in:

Packages such as Beverage, Wi-Fi, Specialty Restaurants, etc.

 

New ships are getting bigger, yet entertainment venues are smaller. Pools smaller.

Cabin categories changing to reduce perks.

More passenger participation in entertainment replacing production shows.

 

We could add more. However, it still provides a very good bang for the buck. 

 

We cruise Celebrity, MSC, NCL, Princess & RCI yearly. They all have their pluses & minuses.

No favorite line.

 

Happy Cruising!

 

 

[mek]

2 hours ago, Fredrik said:

Great comparison that NCL is not the only ones cutting back everywhere. There is no doubt that the cut backs on menu items and food quality in ALL restaurants on NCL will bounce back within the next couple of years due to competion. We say it in the aftermath of 2001, the financial crises of 2008 and the pandemic. It will get better. ❤️‍🩹 

Dream on.  As long as any line can offer less, charge more, and fill ships there will be no incentive for things to "improve."

[ChiefMateJRK]

1 hour ago, luv2kroooz said:

When is the stock price going up?

It's going up tomorrow.  Unless it goes down.  Nobody knows.  If they did, they would own NCL.

[scooter6139]

This is inevitable.  Every forum here has old timers complaining of things declining and going wrong.  I just ignore it all.  

[luv2kroooz]

1 minute ago, scooter6139 said:

This is inevitable.  Every forum here has old timers complaining of things declining and going wrong.  I just ignore it all.  

Dont confuse facts with complaints.

[asctony]

1 hour ago, scooter6139 said:

This is inevitable.  Every forum here has old timers complaining of things declining and going wrong.  I just ignore it all.  

Maybe you will get old one day and someone will be able to explain to you -

 

Or ignore you.

 

EXPERIENCE OVER TIME.

 

Sail on bye! SMH

[SeaShark]

2 hours ago, scooter6139 said:

This is inevitable.  Every forum here has old timers complaining of things declining and going wrong.  I just ignore it all.  

 

You state you "just ignore it all" yet here you are reading the thread and posting to the thread. Not exactly what I would consider "ignoring it all".

[Crazy planning mom]

All the lines cut back after Covid.  However, we went on Celebrity Apex a few months ago and had a great time.  They still had cabin service twice a day and excellent entertainment.  The buffet was quite extensive.  I understand from visiting the Celebrity board earlier in the year, Celebrity had significantly cut back the dinner buffet.  However, there was such an outcry that they had to bring back more items to the buffet.

[Novastar]

We did a Celebrity cruise in Japan in May. We have zero complaints!

[ocdb8r]

I think Celebrity used to be a notch above the "mainline" cruises, but as they expanded (even pre-COVID) they realized the target market was too small (wedged between the "luxury" cruise brands and the mainline brands).  They started to skew closer to their sister Royal, trying to differentiate with a more understated aesthetic, less "flashy" entertainment and offerings that appealed to a slightly older and/or less "multi-generational" demographic.

 

9 hours ago, david_sobe said:

Until the masses decide to stop cruising and they desperately need discounts to book cabins, the decline will continue to happen.  There is inflation and greedflation.  Because of the insane demand for cruises, the cruise lines have no reason to offer more perks to customers.  The entire strategy of NCL and others is not us loyal cruisers here on CC. They take our business for granted.  The marketing is for younger and first time cruisers.  They dont care if they ever cruise again.  Its the market demo everyone is going for.  Until they stop booking cruises the decline will continue.  

We have cruised quite a bit post-COVID (including the debut sailing on the Apex).  ALL lines have cut-back offerings across the board (food, entertainment and service). This was less discussed in the early post-COVID days as pricing was good and lower occupancy obscured some of these cuts.  However, we noticed the food quality immediately on the Apex.  It wasn't bad, but the trimming at the edges was apparent.  As cruise prices have started to escalate and occupancy has started to boom, these cuts have become more noticeable and more discussed.

 

However, I don't chalk it up to "greedflation" nor do I believe the cruise lines don't care about loyal travelers.  Many seem to forget that these lines had to issue massive amounts of debt to keep afloat during COVID.  The fact so many have survived and more did not go bankrupt is hardly believable. They are all doing everything possible to continue to service that debt...and despite all the PR hype, if you look at the fundamentals only RCCL has really been able to outperform AFTER accounting for the massive debt payments.

 

I believe there will be some consolidation on the horizon - I don't believe the insane demand we've seen over the past 18-24 months will continue at the same pace. The airlines are already seeing the subsidence of "revenge travel" and both general demand for cruising and the massive increase in on-board spending will also start to subside.  All of this will happen as there are THOUSANDS of more berths coming online (both RCCL and MSC have multiple 200,000+ ton ships coming online, along with plenty of other "big" ships coming from the other lines).  Ahead of any consolidation, I think there will be a return to some of the "deals" and pricing we saw pre-COVID, but I think the lines will continue to try to focus on "efficiency" so we may not see a return to some of the quality we saw in the past.

 

What we appreciate about NCL is that there are still some options where we can choose to pay for to get some respite from the madness (without having to go all in to the Haven).  Between specialty restaurants, VIBE/H2O and the thermal spa area we can pick and choose some options that elevate our cruise closer to the "good old days".  Most of the other lines don't offer such options (RCCL has no corollary to VIBE/H2O and their thermal areas suck!).

[ontheweb]

8 hours ago, SeaShark said:

 

You state you "just ignore it all" yet here you are reading the thread and posting to the thread. Not exactly what I would consider "ignoring it all".

My sentiments exactly.

[Acruzaholic]

2 hours ago, ocdb8r said:

I think Celebrity used to be a notch above the "mainline" cruises, but as they expanded (even pre-COVID) they realized the target market was too small (wedged between the "luxury" cruise brands and the mainline brands).  They started to skew closer to their sister Royal, trying to differentiate with a more understated aesthetic, less "flashy" entertainment and offerings that appealed to a slightly older and/or less "multi-generational" demographic.

 

We have cruised quite a bit post-COVID (including the debut sailing on the Apex).  ALL lines have cut-back offerings across the board (food, entertainment and service). This was less discussed in the early post-COVID days as pricing was good and lower occupancy obscured some of these cuts.  However, we noticed the food quality immediately on the Apex.  It wasn't bad, but the trimming at the edges was apparent.  As cruise prices have started to escalate and occupancy has started to boom, these cuts have become more noticeable and more discussed.

 

However, I don't chalk it up to "greedflation" nor do I believe the cruise lines don't care about loyal travelers.  Many seem to forget that these lines had to issue massive amounts of debt to keep afloat during COVID.  The fact so many have survived and more did not go bankrupt is hardly believable. They are all doing everything possible to continue to service that debt...and despite all the PR hype, if you look at the fundamentals only RCCL has really been able to outperform AFTER accounting for the massive debt payments.

 

I believe there will be some consolidation on the horizon - I don't believe the insane demand we've seen over the past 18-24 months will continue at the same pace. The airlines are already seeing the subsidence of "revenge travel" and both general demand for cruising and the massive increase in on-board spending will also start to subside.  All of this will happen as there are THOUSANDS of more berths coming online (both RCCL and MSC have multiple 200,000+ ton ships coming online, along with plenty of other "big" ships coming from the other lines).  Ahead of any consolidation, I think there will be a return to some of the "deals" and pricing we saw pre-COVID, but I think the lines will continue to try to focus on "efficiency" so we may not see a return to some of the quality we saw in the past.

 

What we appreciate about NCL is that there are still some options where we can choose to pay for to get some respite from the madness (without having to go all in to the Haven).  Between specialty restaurants, VIBE/H2O and the thermal spa area we can pick and choose some options that elevate our cruise closer to the "good old days".  Most of the other lines don't offer such options (RCCL has no corollary to VIBE/H2O and their thermal areas suck!).

I totally agree with you post.

[EllieinNJ]

Just booked my first Celebrity cruise with a Labor Day sale for April, 2025 which brought the price to something I was willing to pay.  I guess I won't miss what I don't know in services but really excited that I can cruise Celebrity.

[Oakman58]

Yes, all the cruise lines have cut back since Covid, but NCL started noticeable cutbacks years before Covid hit.  The most noticeable for me was no lobster in the main dining room without an upcharge and then after that, no lobster at all.

[luv2kroooz]

12 hours ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

It's going up tomorrow.  Unless it goes down.  Nobody knows.  If they did, they would own NCL.

Tastes like a word salad to me 😁....a bunch of nothing. Well, hoping they can figure out how to make a ROI for their shareholders soon. The strategy to date has failed.

[Distinctive-Destinations]

58 minutes ago, luv2kroooz said:

Tastes like a word salad to me 😁....a bunch of nothing. Well, hoping they can figure out how to make a ROI for their shareholders soon. The strategy to date has failed.

If you get the shareholder credit that is a return on your investment.

[luv2kroooz]

18 minutes ago, Distinctive-Destinations said:

If you get the shareholder credit that is a return on your investment.

Yeah, and I get it from all cruise lines that we sail...so that is a wash. 

[Distinctive-Destinations]

24 minutes ago, luv2kroooz said:

Yeah, and I get it from all cruise lines that we sail...so that is a wash. 

Are dividends a wash too?

[luv2kroooz]

5 minutes ago, Distinctive-Destinations said:

Are dividends a wash too?

Not currently. To date, only RCL group has reinstated their dividend, returning value to its shareholders on a comparative basis.Their stock has significantly outperformed NCLH post Corona-time.