Guess who is buying the White Pass & Yukon Route in Skagway, Alaska

Wow! Interesting. Wonder if this means that Carnival Corp ships will have priority docking in Skagway. And I wonder how this affects Chilkoot tours?

Good strategic move to buy up a very unique revenue generating asset. Skagway is all about White Pass train excursion tours. Nothing else in town is as famous or comes close to it.

An interesting side note is that the same people who operate the WP&YRR operate the Sugar Train in St. Kitts...EM

Obviously they see profit-making potential here. Railroads like this are high-maintenance operations, both rolling stock and track. Time will tell.

Maybe the railroad was in financial trouble and near failure? Don't know ... just thinking out loud.

Too many people were probably booking the RR on their own, rather than thru the cruise lines. :confused: They fixed that! ;)

Too many people were probably booking the RR on their own, rather than thru the cruise lines. :confused: They fixed that! ;)

And they will fix the prices too.

I am glad we are taking the railroad at the end of the month. The excursion price is going to take a huge jump.

Maybe the railroad was in financial trouble and near failure? Don't know ... just thinking out loud.

A very likely scenario.

Carnival is moving aggressively into owning ports and the entertainment at the port. They have built several ports like the one in the DR. So now they are buying the port facilities in Skagway as well as the number one attraction, the railroad. Perhaps soon we will not only sail on one of their cruiselines but call on their ports and book excursions with facilities they own.

http://globenewswire.com/news-release/2018/06/07/1518096/0/en/TWC-Enterprises-Limited-Announces-Plans-to-Divest-White-Pass-Yukon-Route-to-Carnival-Corporation-plc.html?f=22&fvtc=5&fvtv=35609031

The last paragraph of the article was interesting for those that read it. Here it is with my emphasis:

In 2017, Fast Company recognized Carnival Corporation as being among the "Top 10 Most Innovative Companies" in both the design and travel categories. Fast Company specifically recognized Carnival Corporation for its work in developing OceanMedallion™, a high-tech wearable device that enables the world's first interactive guest experience platform capable of transforming vacation travel into a highly personalized and elevated level of customized service.

Just got off the Grand. The railroad was shut down in Skagway due to danger from some rock falls. Not much to do in Skagway with train shut down. There are lots of jewelry stores. All except one are owned by the cruise lines.

Carnival is moving aggressively into owning ports and the entertainment at the port. They have built several ports like the one in the DR. So now they are buying the port facilities in Skagway as well as the number one attraction, the railroad. Perhaps soon we will not only sail on one of their cruiselines but call on their ports and book excursions with facilities they own.

 

http://globenewswire.com/news-release/2018/06/07/1518096/0/en/TWC-Enterprises-Limited-Announces-Plans-to-Divest-White-Pass-Yukon-Route-to-Carnival-Corporation-plc.html?f=22&fvtc=5&fvtv=35609031

This is not surprising. They own a ton of hotels in Alaska and have for a long time. They also own Gray Line Alaska and train cars. They have deep roots in Alaska. They have been running vacation packages (either via bus, train or just hotel) for a very long time.

Just got off the Grand. The railroad was shut down in Skagway due to danger from some rock falls. Not much to do in Skagway with train shut down. There are lots of jewelry stores. All except one are owned by the cruise lines.

There actually is quite a bit to do in Skagway other than the train.

Like others, I find it interesting! Guess there won't be anymore bypassing Princess and booking the railroad on your own. The price will be fixed and probably at a higher rate. As a stockholder, I'm glad. As a passenger, not so much.

I posted this in the thread on the Alaska board, but it seems relevant here also:

Does Carnival/Princess even have enough ships/passengers to fill the train? I wouldn't think so. I think the news stories I was reading about it being closed last week said there were about 500 passengers at a time and up to 12 runs a day. That would be 6000 people per day which is more than are on a single ship - and not everyone want's to do this excursion. Also, does Carnival/Princess have a ship at Skagway every day of the week? Seems unlikely.

OK - I just Googled to see what was usual. Using next week (June 10-16), There was 1 day with ZERO Princess or Carnival ships, 1 day with 2 Princess ships and 5 days with 1 Carnival or Princess ship. There isn't any way they could fill the train with just their guests.

If this is an excursion that regularly sells out, then I suppose Carnival could block out more reserved space for their guests leaving a little less space for everyone else but I doubt they will close it to the general public.

Princess and Carnival are not the only Carnival Corp lines doing Alaska.

HAL has quite a few ships in Alaska as well as Cunard and Seaborne have a few cruises also.

I posted this in the thread on the Alaska board, but it seems relevant here also:

 

Does Carnival/Princess even have enough ships/passengers to fill the train? I wouldn't think so. I think the news stories I was reading about it being closed last week said there were about 500 passengers at a time and up to 12 runs a day. That would be 6000 people per day which is more than are on a single ship - and not everyone want's to do this excursion. Also, does Carnival/Princess have a ship at Skagway every day of the week? Seems unlikely.

 

OK - I just Googled to see what was usual. Using next week (June 10-16), There was 1 day with ZERO Princess or Carnival ships, 1 day with 2 Princess ships and 5 days with 1 Carnival or Princess ship. There isn't any way they could fill the train with just their guests.

 

If this is an excursion that regularly sells out, then I suppose Carnival could block out more reserved space for their guests leaving a little less space for everyone else but I doubt they will close it to the general public.

The 6000 passengers per day number that you have calculated is peak capacity. As you have stated, not everybody on every cruise ship wants to take this excursion. When we visited Skagway last month, the Emerald Princess was the only ship in port. As you have already observed the train carried way less than 6000 passengers that day. If three 3000 passenger ships are in port on a given day, it seems unlikely to me that 2/3 of them want to take the same excursion. I think that Skagway has maximum berth capacity for four ships. I've only visited there three times, but I've never seen more than two cruise ships in port.

I would also assume that cruise passengers make up 99% of the passengers on those trains. I have seen hikers get on/off, but we are talking a handful, here--less than 10. If anybody can dispute this, I will yield, immediately, to their superior knowledge.

The average number of daily passengers has to be much less than 6000. I would conclude that the "breakeven" point has to also be way less than 6000 passengers per day.

There are, currently, seven Princess ships cruising in Alaska waters. I think six of them are on 7-day itineraries. One, the Grand Princess, is on its usual 10-day itinerary out of San Francisco. So, if they wanted to, they certainly could come close to averaging one ship visiting Skagway every day. In my four previous Alaska cruises (three on Princess), only one did not visit Skagway (we visited Icy Strait Point last September on the Grand Princess, and, by the way, that was an outstanding stop). I have two AK cruises booked for 2019. Both visit Skagway. One is on the Royal Princess--one of Princess' higher passenger capacity ships.

When you add in other CCL-owned lines, specifically, Carnival (two ship cruising in AK waters in 2018) and Holland American (six ships cruising in AK waters in 2018), there can easily be at least one CCL ship in Skagway every day for most of the summer AK season. In fact, now that I realize how much CCL dominates Alaska cruising, this acquisition seems to make more sense.

Plus, non-Carnival owned ships cruise in Alaska as well. I suspect Carnival will more than happy to sell tickets to those passengers.

Wow for sure! That ought to make them some money.

Will HAL abandon Sitka?

Will RCL and NCL abandon (or reduce) Skagway?

Will HAL abandon Sitka?

 

Will RCL and NCL abandon (or reduce) Skagway?

Why? And No.

Will HAL abandon Sitka?

 

 

 

Will RCL and NCL abandon (or reduce) Skagway?

Why? This logic is not logical

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RCL and NCL control approximately 38% of the passengers that visit Skagway, thus approximately 38% of the traffic on the White Pass Rail. So, I might theorize that unless Carnival is going to give a great discounted rate to the other lines, those lines might decide to choose different ports more often.

HAL is the most common visitor to Sitka, which can easily be switched to Skagway since Carnival will be promoting the white pass even more.

Seems quite logical to me.

I am glad we are taking the railroad at the end of the month. The excursion price is going to take a huge jump.

Only jumping I see is some jumping to conclusions!

Tom