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Allure and propulsion problems.

bilyclub

By bilyclub,
in Royal Caribbean International

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krewzin

krewzin

Posted
Posted

 

Let me try to help you understand it from a totally different perspective ...

 

Pretend you are a shut-in and you can't really get out of your house without someone's assistance. You arrange for me to pick you up and take you to see a movie you've been dying to see. You've been looking forward to it for a while. But I get to your house late and there's not enough time to see the movie; you decide we can get a pleasant lunch out instead of seeing that movie you've wanted to see more than anything.

 

When you ask me why I was late (causing you to miss that beloved movie) and I tell you I had a flat tire on the way, you'll understand, you'll realize it just wasn't your lucky day. But if I instead tell you I knew for a long time and I was going to have to work late and I knew I'd make you miss that movie, wouldn't you feel pretty annoyed at me for not letting you know???!!! Maybe you could've made other plans. At least you wouldn't have gotten yours hopes up.

 

If I was late due to unforeseen circumstances, then so be it. But if I knew well in advance I was going to be late and mess up your plans, aren't I rude for not notifying you?

 

 

To me it depends on what movie you're talking about here?

 

:)

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Cruise a holic

Cruise a holic

Posted
Posted
Been on Oasis since Saturday and I am not surprised this thread is still going strong.

 

Glad that the Quantum will likely, not experience the same problems as it's big sisters. We are also booked on that ship. While we have sailed to each port multiple times, we have a positive attitude and truly enjoy the cruise experience- not necessarily for the ports- as we have seen them, enjoyed the beach and all water activities, many tours and shopping, but we sail on cruise ships for the relaxation and amenities of the "ship resort".

 

When we want another experience, we spend a week at our favorite Islands during the year. I just want to be safe and not experience what the clients of Carnival experienced.

 

I "trust" the judgement of the RC management. Hope that it is a good call!!

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bloodyelbow

bloodyelbow

Posted
Posted (edited)

Hello everyone, first time poster to Cruise Critic. Total newbie when it comes to cruises, never been on one, I don't know anything about them.

 

I've already purchased a cruise and will be on the December 8th, 2013 sailing of the Allure of the Seas from Royal Caribbean. However, I just "accidentally" heard about the very concerning news about Allure of the Seas that has made me very weary. Basically you guys have been talking about it since October, that it suffered propulsion problems to its motor bearing that's wearing down faster than they expected, according to the news source I read. I read different things that its related to its azipod or thrust bearings, I'm not a boat expert but sounds like a mechanical issue. Azipods are basically the "steering wheel" no, or like a rudder/elevator on an airplane?

 

I heard that they have cancelled the February 23, 2014 sailing and that customers will receive a full refund. Well that does not sound very reassuring to me knowing that I will be on board a cruise ship that will still have that problem unresolved. It will still be a broken cruise ship.

 

I don't care about the changes to port calls etc, I just am very concerned about the root issue, anything that affects my safety. To be honest I do not want to be on a ship that is not functioning 100%, that will linger on my mind and I will not have a great experience. That's like flying an airplane with one engine, let alone a heavy ship that has now going to have its two remaining motors having to work harder than before to push its weight through many days in sea. I know they said they have reduced speed, but if the one bearing that has already failed and wear out faster than expected, who's to say the other 2 won't follow suit? I can't take the risk. Especially since this thread has been here since October and who knows how long this issue has been lingering, small issues can turn to big ones in a blink of an eye. By the time December 8 comes along it could already be worse.

 

Has anyone heard about what will happen to those of us who sail out December 8th, 2013? Any possible ways we can get a refund?

 

It's crazy to think that I accidentally found this out accidentally. Royal Caribbean has my contact information and email, and has never alerted me of this news. WHY?? Aren't they responsible for keeping their customers in the loop?

 

P.S This is my itinerary:

08-Dec Fort Lauderdale, Florida 5:00 PM

09-Dec Nassau, Bahamas 7:00 AM 1:00 PM Docked

10-Dec Cruising

11-Dec Charlotte Amalie, St. Thomas 11:00 AM 7:00 PM Docked

12-Dec Philipsburg, St. Maarten 8:00 AM 5:00 PM Docked

13-Dec Cruising

14-Dec Cruising

15-Dec Fort Lauderdale, Florida 6:15 AM

Edited by bloodyelbow
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Clarea

Clarea

Posted
Posted
Hello everyone, first time poster to Cruise Critic. Total newbie when it comes to cruises, never been on one, I don't know anything about them.

 

I've already purchased a cruise and will be on the December 8th, 2013 sailing of the Allure of the Seas from Royal Caribbean. However, I just "accidentally" heard about the very concerning news about Allure of the Seas that has made me very weary. Basically you guys have been talking about it since October, that it suffered propulsion problems to its motor bearing that's wearing down faster than they expected, according to the news source I read. I read different things that its related to its azipod or thrust bearings, I'm not a boat expert but sounds like a mechanical issue. Azipods are basically the "steering wheel" no, or like a rudder/elevator on an airplane?

I heard that they have cancelled the February 23, 2014 sailing and that customers will receive a full refund. Well that does not sound very reassuring to me knowing that I will be on board a cruise ship that will still have that problem unresolved. It will still be a broken cruise ship.

 

I don't care about the changes to port calls etc, I just am very concerned about the root issue, anything that affects my safety. To be honest I do not want to be on a ship that is not functioning 100%, that will linger on my mind and I will not have a great experience. That's like flying an airplane with one engine, let alone a heavy ship that has now going to have its two remaining motors having to work harder than before to push its weight through many days in sea. I know they said they have reduced speed, but if the one bearing that has already failed and wear out faster than expected, who's to say the other 2 won't follow suit? I can't take the risk. Especially since this thread has been here since October and who knows how long this issue has been lingering, small issues can turn to big ones in a blink of an eye. By the time December 8 comes along it could already be worse.

 

Has anyone heard about what will happen to those of us who sail out December 8th, 2013? Any possible ways we can get a refund?

 

It's crazy to think that I accidentally found this out accidentally. Royal Caribbean has my contact information and email, and has never alerted me of this news. WHY?? Aren't they responsible for keeping their customers in the loop?

 

P.S This is my itinerary:

08-Dec Fort Lauderdale, Florida 5:00 PM

09-Dec Nassau, Bahamas 7:00 AM 1:00 PM Docked

10-Dec Cruising

11-Dec Charlotte Amalie, St. Thomas 11:00 AM 7:00 PM Docked

12-Dec Philipsburg, St. Maarten 8:00 AM 5:00 PM Docked

13-Dec Cruising

14-Dec Cruising

15-Dec Fort Lauderdale, Florida 6:15 AM

Azipods provide steering and propulsion.

 

At this point, there does not seem to be a safety issue. The ship has 3 azipods, and if they needed to turn one off, the ship's speed would be affected, but the remaining azipods would be able to control the ship. Independence ran for months with one azipod shut down, and it didn't seem to cause any ill effect.

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reallyitsmema

reallyitsmema

Posted
Posted

Welcome to cruise critic, Bloodyelbow. There is no way this ship would be running if this was a safety issue. The ship has 3 azipods and one is malfunctioning. They can shut that one down and run on two, but it causes a slower speed.

 

A lot of the posts in this thread are from alarmists and speculators. As you get used to posters on cruise critic, you will learn who posts factual information, who posts rumors, who thinks they know it all, who has no clue whatsoever and too many other types to list.

 

The fact is, there is an azipod with bearing issues. The cruiseline has tried to resolve the issue and can't without taking the ship out of service. The cruiseline is cancelling one cruise in February to fix said problem. Hopefully, they will be able to do it during that week and not have to cancel further cruises.

 

Personally, we are looking to cruise in January and Allure is on our short list. There is no way I would consider booking it if I thought it was going to put my family in danger.

 

Don't get too caught up in a lot of what is in this thread but don't go on Allure if you are going to be a wreck all week. Contact the cruiseline and see if you can cancel or move to a different cruise but just be prepared to lose some cash.

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1 Buffett Fan

1 Buffett Fan

Posted
Posted
I've already purchased a cruise and will be on the December 8th, 2013 sailing of the Allure of the Seas from Royal Caribbean. However, I just "accidentally" heard about the very concerning news about Allure of the Seas that has made me very weary. Basically you guys have been talking about it since October, that it suffered propulsion problems to its motor bearing that's wearing down faster than they expected, according to the news source I read. I read different things that its related to its azipod or thrust bearings, I'm not a boat expert but sounds like a mechanical issue. Azipods are basically the "steering wheel" no, or like a rudder/elevator on an airplane?

 

It's crazy to think that I accidentally found this out accidentally. Royal Caribbean has my contact information and email, and has never alerted me of this news. WHY?? Aren't they responsible for keeping their customers in the loop?

 

Elbow, did you check to see if RCI has the correct email address for you? Also, it may help to check into the roll call (here on Cruise Critic) for your particular cruise. Some of your fellow passengers received and posted this message from RCI...

 

We are writing to provide you with important information regarding your reservation on the Allure of the Seas.

 

Allure of the Seas has been experiencing excessive and unanticipated bearing wear in one of its three propulsion motors. All three motors are fully operational, and there is no impact on the maneuverability of the ship or on the safety of our guests and crew. However, since the rate of bearing wear is directly related to ship’s speed, we have had to limit the ship’s top speed. This has reduced the rate of bearing wear and will ensure that all of three propulsion motors are fully available for maneuvering and emergencies until repairs can be completed.

 

Due to the reduced speed it is necessary to make some minor adjustments to your original itinerary. Allure of the Seas will now call on Nassau, Bahamas, from 7:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. and on Charlotte Amalie, St. Thomas, from 11:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. The rest of your itinerary will remain unchanged.

 

Thank you for your understanding about the slight modification to your itinerary. As always, we thank you for your ongoing support of Royal Caribbean International, and look forward to welcoming you onboard.

 

Sincerely,

Royal Caribbean International

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chengkp75

chengkp75

Posted
Posted
Hello everyone, first time poster to Cruise Critic. Total newbie when it comes to cruises, never been on one, I don't know anything about them.

 

I've already purchased a cruise and will be on the December 8th, 2013 sailing of the Allure of the Seas from Royal Caribbean. However, I just "accidentally" heard about the very concerning news about Allure of the Seas that has made me very weary. Basically you guys have been talking about it since October, that it suffered propulsion problems to its motor bearing that's wearing down faster than they expected, according to the news source I read. I read different things that its related to its azipod or thrust bearings, I'm not a boat expert but sounds like a mechanical issue. Azipods are basically the "steering wheel" no, or like a rudder/elevator on an airplane?

 

I heard that they have cancelled the February 23, 2014 sailing and that customers will receive a full refund. Well that does not sound very reassuring to me knowing that I will be on board a cruise ship that will still have that problem unresolved. It will still be a broken cruise ship.

 

I don't care about the changes to port calls etc, I just am very concerned about the root issue, anything that affects my safety. To be honest I do not want to be on a ship that is not functioning 100%, that will linger on my mind and I will not have a great experience. That's like flying an airplane with one engine, let alone a heavy ship that has now going to have its two remaining motors having to work harder than before to push its weight through many days in sea. I know they said they have reduced speed, but if the one bearing that has already failed and wear out faster than expected, who's to say the other 2 won't follow suit? I can't take the risk. Especially since this thread has been here since October and who knows how long this issue has been lingering, small issues can turn to big ones in a blink of an eye. By the time December 8 comes along it could already be worse.

 

Has anyone heard about what will happen to those of us who sail out December 8th, 2013? Any possible ways we can get a refund?

 

It's crazy to think that I accidentally found this out accidentally. Royal Caribbean has my contact information and email, and has never alerted me of this news. WHY?? Aren't they responsible for keeping their customers in the loop?

 

P.S This is my itinerary:

08-Dec Fort Lauderdale, Florida 5:00 PM

09-Dec Nassau, Bahamas 7:00 AM 1:00 PM Docked

10-Dec Cruising

11-Dec Charlotte Amalie, St. Thomas 11:00 AM 7:00 PM Docked

12-Dec Philipsburg, St. Maarten 8:00 AM 5:00 PM Docked

13-Dec Cruising

14-Dec Cruising

15-Dec Fort Lauderdale, Florida 6:15 AM

 

An azipod is a combination of propeller, rudder, and thruster. It is more like an outboard boat motor than just a rudder. The propeller itself is steerable, and therefore there is no need for a rudder. I believe the problem on the Allure is with the centerline pod of the three it has, and this pod is fixed and not steerable, so it is essentially propulsion only. Each pod has an electric motor down in the "pod" (think of the area at the bottom of an outboard motor just ahead of the propeller. This pod hangs below the hull of the ship, and therefore, for early model azipods like the Allure has, the motor bearings must be removed from outside, requiring a drydocking to accomplish.

 

The centerline pod is only required to get the ship to full speed. Generally, they can make 14-115 knots or so (don't know the exact specifics for the Allure) on two pods. The other two pods are not working any harder than normal, since they have reduced speed to accommodate the one pod being down. The bearing problem has been happening for quite a while, I'm sure, as these are constantly monitored 24/7 by the ship's engineers. They have been watching a graph of particle count in the oil and bearing vibration since the ship was built, and the slope of the graph has changed in recent weeks, indicating an accelerating problem. If there is currently no problem with the bearings of the other two pods, it won't happen instantaneously. Further, if they are going to repair one pod during an unscheduled drydocking, and had a potential problem with another pod bearing, they would deal with that at the same time.

 

The reason that the drydocking is not scheduled until February, is because there is no drydock available earlier capable of lifting the Allure. Large drydocks are usually booked several years in advance, and getting a ship this large into a dock in 3-4 months is doing pretty well.

 

With 38 year's experience as a ship's engineer, I can say that there is really nothing to worry about from a safety or reliability standpoint with having one pod that has not failed, but is being used in a restricted capacity to prevent failure. I would have no concern at all with booking myself and my family onboard the Allure prior to February.

 

The classification society that inspects the ship, and provides the insurance underwriting (think UL) has obviously decided that the ship is safe to continue carrying passengers with two fully functioning pods and one in limited use, so the insurance clubs have no problem with it (and they would, if they even smelled a potential huge claim).

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bilyclub

bilyclub

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

The only thing I would add is that the center pod is an azipod. On the Freedom Class the center pod is fixed, not the same on the Oasis Class.

 

The world’s largest cruise liners

Royal Caribbean’s Oasis of the Seas, currently the largest cruise liner in the world, can carry more than 7,500 passengers and crew, and is the first ship of its kind to be equipped with three fully steerable Azipod units. The third unit delivers the additional control, flexibility and power demanded by such a large vessel.

 

 

http://www.abb.us/cawp/seitp202/e9cea8c8f7a57972c12576cc00358cb8.aspx

Edited by bilyclub
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bilyclub

bilyclub

Posted
  • Author
Posted

 

I also don't think that, even on the newest azipods you could replace a bearing from the inside. ALthough they are allegedly making the bearings more durable.

 

 

ABB says they are.

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chengkp75

chengkp75

Posted
Posted
I also don't think that, even on the newest azipods you could replace a bearing from the inside. ALthough they are allegedly making the bearings more durable.

 

Actually, that is the big advantage to the XO class azipod. The problems that the pods have had over the years is not with the roller bearings that support the propeller shaft, but with the "white metal" thrust pads. These are flat pads of bearing metal (like the bearings in your car engine) that run up against a collar on the propeller shaft. The thrust produced by turning the propeller must be translated to the ship by the shaft collar pressing against the thrust pads, which are fixed in the pod. These pads are oil lubricated, and the wear particles are monitored, which is how the engineers note a forthcoming bearing problem. On the XO azipod, the thrust pads are changeable from inside the pod. The roller support bearings still need to be changed in drydock. On the older VO pods, like Allure, the thrust pads need to be changed from the outside as well.

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miketingle

miketingle

Posted
Posted
An azipod is a combination of propeller, rudder, and thruster. It is more like an outboard boat motor than just a rudder. The propeller itself is steerable, and therefore there is no need for a rudder. I believe the problem on the Allure is with the centerline pod of the three it has, and this pod is fixed and not steerable, so it is essentially propulsion only. Each pod has an electric motor down in the "pod" (think of the area at the bottom of an outboard motor just ahead of the propeller. This pod hangs below the hull of the ship, and therefore, for early model azipods like the Allure has, the motor bearings must be removed from outside, requiring a drydocking to accomplish.

 

The centerline pod is only required to get the ship to full speed. Generally, they can make 14-115 knots or so (don't know the exact specifics for the Allure) on two pods. The other two pods are not working any harder than normal, since they have reduced speed to accommodate the one pod being down. The bearing problem has been happening for quite a while, I'm sure, as these are constantly monitored 24/7 by the ship's engineers. They have been watching a graph of particle count in the oil and bearing vibration since the ship was built, and the slope of the graph has changed in recent weeks, indicating an accelerating problem. If there is currently no problem with the bearings of the other two pods, it won't happen instantaneously. Further, if they are going to repair one pod during an unscheduled drydocking, and had a potential problem with another pod bearing, they would deal with that at the same time.

 

The reason that the drydocking is not scheduled until February, is because there is no drydock available earlier capable of lifting the Allure. Large drydocks are usually booked several years in advance, and getting a ship this large into a dock in 3-4 months is doing pretty well.

 

With 38 year's experience as a ship's engineer, I can say that there is really nothing to worry about from a safety or reliability standpoint with having one pod that has not failed, but is being used in a restricted capacity to prevent failure. I would have no concern at all with booking myself and my family onboard the Allure prior to February.

 

The classification society that inspects the ship, and provides the insurance underwriting (think UL) has obviously decided that the ship is safe to continue carrying passengers with two fully functioning pods and one in limited use, so the insurance clubs have no problem with it (and they would, if they even smelled a potential huge claim).

 

woo-hoo waterskiing it is then that's faster than my car:D:D:D.........

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bilyclub

bilyclub

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
One of the props has to be replaced and the ship will only be out of commission for the 7 day sailing starting 2.23.14

 

 

Wow, thanks for that earth shattering new/wrong information. Did you even read that last page of the thread before posting.....

Edited by bilyclub
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bloodyelbow

bloodyelbow

Posted
Posted
An azipod is a combination of propeller, rudder, and thruster. It is more like an outboard boat motor than just a rudder. The propeller itself is steerable, and therefore there is no need for a rudder. I believe the problem on the Allure is with the centerline pod of the three it has, and this pod is fixed and not steerable, so it is essentially propulsion only. Each pod has an electric motor down in the "pod" (think of the area at the bottom of an outboard motor just ahead of the propeller. This pod hangs below the hull of the ship, and therefore, for early model azipods like the Allure has, the motor bearings must be removed from outside, requiring a drydocking to accomplish.

 

The centerline pod is only required to get the ship to full speed. Generally, they can make 14-115 knots or so (don't know the exact specifics for the Allure) on two pods. The other two pods are not working any harder than normal, since they have reduced speed to accommodate the one pod being down. The bearing problem has been happening for quite a while, I'm sure, as these are constantly monitored 24/7 by the ship's engineers. They have been watching a graph of particle count in the oil and bearing vibration since the ship was built, and the slope of the graph has changed in recent weeks, indicating an accelerating problem. If there is currently no problem with the bearings of the other two pods, it won't happen instantaneously. Further, if they are going to repair one pod during an unscheduled drydocking, and had a potential problem with another pod bearing, they would deal with that at the same time.

 

The reason that the drydocking is not scheduled until February, is because there is no drydock available earlier capable of lifting the Allure. Large drydocks are usually booked several years in advance, and getting a ship this large into a dock in 3-4 months is doing pretty well.

 

With 38 year's experience as a ship's engineer, I can say that there is really nothing to worry about from a safety or reliability standpoint with having one pod that has not failed, but is being used in a restricted capacity to prevent failure. I would have no concern at all with booking myself and my family onboard the Allure prior to February.

 

The classification society that inspects the ship, and provides the insurance underwriting (think UL) has obviously decided that the ship is safe to continue carrying passengers with two fully functioning pods and one in limited use, so the insurance clubs have no problem with it (and they would, if they even smelled a potential huge claim).

 

Thanks for the reply, its a little more reassuring coming from you since you have the experience in such equipment. If you say you would feel safe booking yourself prior to February 2014, then I should feel safe. So I guess that means I'm over reacting no? Let me gather more information and see what I decide.

 

Thanks to all for helping me out.

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A&L_Ont "Live from...." Rare

A&L_Ont

Posted
Posted
How is the week going?

 

OB, the week went well. Thanks for asking. The drive home from Detroit for the last 40 minutes was white outs with the awful stuff. We woke to 15 cms of snow. South of us the had 36 cms of snow.:eek:

 

Great flow riding, best of the best quality, as I was invited to compete. I declined, but I am pretty sure 2nd would have been my place. At the age of 41, I told them it was a young man's game;). First and second were won by a 16 and 12 year old respectively. Truth be told I want a few more tricks in my bag, so maybe in March if my plan comes together. This old dude will show the young guns a few tricks. We did watch the TBOTB from our balcony while we did our disembarkation paperwork.

 

We also had dinner with a friend who is a Senior Officer who is transferring to Allure shortly. We did chat a bit about the propulsion situation, and she too will find it interesting to see how it is fixed. She goes on break shortly before the dry dock propulsion fix.

 

It was more rocky than normal, and we had many good times. I will do a quick review soon giving a few musings of the week.

 

Andrew

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DJZS

DJZS

Posted
Posted
Thanks for the reply, its a little more reassuring coming from you since you have the experience in such equipment. If you say you would feel safe booking yourself prior to February 2014, then I should feel safe. So I guess that means I'm over reacting no? Let me gather more information and see what I decide.

 

Thanks to all for helping me out.

 

Dont worry. EVERYTHING still functions, they just arent going as fast to keep the wear to a minimum. In fact, I just booked a january sailing on the allure today.

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