ABC News Study: Bottled vs. Tap Water

[Pam in CA]

For those who lug cases of bottled water on a ship, you might want to read this before going to all that trouble. Makes for interesting reading. :)

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/study-bottled-water-safer-tap-water/story?id=87558

[windsor26]

For those who lug cases of bottled water on a ship, you might want to read this before going to all that trouble. Makes for interesting reading. :)

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/study-bottled-water-safer-tap-water/story?id=87558

 

News that lots of us - particularly the budget minded - knew for years AND in addition those who only drink bottled water and give it to their children are having a lot of dental problems

[Host Jazzbeau]

News that lots of us - particularly the budget minded - knew for years AND in addition those who only drink bottled water and give it to their children are having a lot of dental problems

 

Do you have any evidence that ship water includes the fluorine that bottled water lacks, causing these dental problems?

 

Otherwise, this article is the typical news service science article written by a liberal arts major: it contains no hard facts, but an obvious attempt to provide "balance" by quoting someone from each side with no attempt by the reporter to judge where the truth is.

[windsor26]

Do you have any evidence that ship water includes the fluorine that bottled water lacks, causing these dental problems?

 

Otherwise, this article is the typical news service science article written by a liberal arts major: it contains no hard facts, but an obvious attempt to provide "balance" by quoting someone from each side with no attempt by the reporter to judge where the truth is.

 

This news item referred to bottled water on land not specifically on a cruise ship The flouride added to tap water has saved a lot of teeth

 

It was Pam who referred us to the news item to save us lugging bottled water on a cruise ship.

Edited December 13, 2013 by windsor26

[cr8tiv1]

I just got off the Star Princess. The naturalist on board was actually an Oceanographer. He wasn't the most entertaining, but did present a few good points. He explained the desalination process that Princess ships use to make fresh water for the pools, restaurants, and staterooms. He said that the pH level produced by the ship was very close (within hundredths) of our body balance. Don't recall exactly the numbers 7._ _

 

It was very interesting to know that the water on the ship is probably better than the water you can get on land (or in a bottle). But...I am still the one that drinks bottled water from my mini-bar in addition to the water on the ship. Just drink the lemonade!

[Pam in CA]

This is just speculation but the amount of fluoride a child (or anyone) is missing when cruising on a ship would probably be minuscule. I thought that fluoride in water is effective over time, not reversible when not drunk for a few days. IMHO, drinking sugared beverages such as Coke would have a much more adverse affect.

 

In any case, fluoridation is still a controversial subject. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluoridation_controversy

[OCruisers]

I've been drinking tap water on cruise ships for 51 years and am still alive and have my teeth! :D

 

LuLu

~~~~

[Host Jazzbeau]

The reason for lugging bottled water on a cruise ship is that not all the water on the ship is produced on the ship.

 

The captain on our NCL cruise explained that the desalinization process only works when the ship is sailing at speed. When you have a series of ports close together, they gradually drain the fresh water tanks and have to top up at the next port. This is true of all cruise ships. On our cruise, that port was in Mexico. We were very glad we had our case of Poland Spring.

 

There is a real difference between basic bottled water and spring water. Dasani and other brands marketed by soft drink companies are basically city water that has (supposedly) been filtered a little more -- and has salt added [check the ingredients]. Spring water does not contain sodium.

 

On the other hand, thanks to the Federal paranoia about microorganisms in water, NYC water no longer has the great taste it was famous for. That's why I pay for Poland Spring -- it tastes better!

[Potstech]

This type of comparison between bottled and tap water is done from time to time with the same results. Tap water seems to win out most times. Additionally it shows that most bottled water is taken from local tap water. But in the end it is up to each family to choose which say they want to go.

[cr8tiv1]

The reason for lugging bottled water on a cruise ship is that not all the water on the ship is produced on the ship.

 

The captain on our NCL cruise explained that the desalinization process only works when the ship is sailing at speed. When you have a series of ports close together, they gradually drain the fresh water tanks and have to top up at the next port. This is true of all cruise ships. On our cruise, that port was in Mexico. We were very glad we had our case of Poland Spring.

 

There is a real difference between basic bottled water and spring water. Dasani and other brands marketed by soft drink companies are basically city water that has (supposedly) been filtered a little more -- and has salt added [check the ingredients]. Spring water does not contain sodium.

 

On the other hand, thanks to the Federal paranoia about microorganisms in water, NYC water no longer has the great taste it was famous for. That's why I pay for Poland Spring -- it tastes better!

 

 

Our guest speaker did go on to elaborate that ships are "sometimes" allowed to top off their tanks from visiting ports. The usual is not since most countries do not want to "share" their water. He also mentioned that it is harder for a ship to stay in a port for long hours (unable to generate their own water). I am not sure that passenger laundry rooms are affected, but he did say that they did limit crew laundry to a minimum. That is also why you might find a pool or two closed on port days.

 

Regardless of my information gathered from this speaker, it is all a personal preference. My days of carting on bottles of water are over. I am trusting that Princess will monitor their water for my safety.

[BruceMuzz]

Your guest speaker may know quite a bit about water, but he is not very knowledgeable about ship's water.

 

Most cruise ships - depending on their age - have 2 possible choices in producing fresh water from sea water; distillation and reverse osmosis.

Both systems require extra fuel ($$) to produce that water.

With fuel prices at an all-time high, it currently costs us around US$6 per ton to produce fresh water using these systems.

The water produced onboard is absolutely pure, but also completely lacking in minerals. When this water is pumped through metal pipes to your cabin, the metal ions in the pipes are quickly leeched out, causing leaks and pipe failures. So the cruise line has to add mineral salts to the purified water in order to help save the pipes. These mineral salts are not completely effective, but they do help. These salts also add a bit of taste to the water.

 

All potable water on ships - regardles of the source - has small amounts of chlorine and bromine added to kill any bacteria in the water.

All potable water - regardles of the source - on ships built after 1995 is also exposed to intense ultraviolet radiation that kills anything and everything living in the water. When that water reaches your cabin, it is absolutely free of any bacteriological danger.

 

Many ports around the world are quite happy to sell potable water to cruise ships. The price is generally between US$3 and US$4 per ton.

One advantage - aside from lower cost - is the fact that shore-produced water contains the metal and mineral ions lacking in ship-produced water. The more shore water we use, the longer our pipes last (and the more money and fuel we save).

 

A large Princess ship consumes around 3,000 tons of fresh water per day. If they bunker 30,000 tons of water in a port, the company saves between $60,000 and $90,000 in operating costs over a 10 day period.

 

You can imagine that every cruise line is more than happy to purchase potable water in any port at every opportunity.

Edited December 13, 2013 by BruceMuzz

[caribill]

Several have mentioned that bottled water is often municipal water. Here is how it is in Texas:

 

In Walmart's case, the water is Niagara — not from Niagara Falls, or even company headquarters in California — but from a local plant in Grand Prairie.

 

Kroger's bottles don't say where their water is sourced, but it's Dallas City water from Irving.

 

Aquafina's bottle says their product comes from "public water sources." A company spokesman says it's Dallas water from Mesquite.

 

Tom Thumb's brand, Refreshe', doesn't reveal its source. It's bottled by Advanced H20 near Duncanville.

 

Dasani, a division of Coca-Cola doesn't give a clue where it comes from on the bottle. Headquarters says that its source is Dallas water mains.

 

Nestle Pure Life's label does say its source is public water supplies, Dallas, Texas.

[iceleven]

All this talk about the water but no one mentions that horrible waste of plastic.:rolleyes:

[kruisey]

For those who lug cases of bottled water on a ship, you might want to read this before going to all that trouble. Makes for interesting reading. :)

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/study-bottled-water-safer-tap-water/story?id=87558

I either read or saw on TV about 6 months ago someone mentioned the crew from cruise ships bringing bottled spring water aboard due to the fact the ships water and as a matter of fact home tap water does not contain the natural minerals. Also I know in my part of the world Clorine is used in tap water,its not in spring mineral water,

[icat2000]

All this talk about the water but no one mentions that horrible waste of plastic.:rolleyes:

 

Definitely. Not good for the environment. I drink a lot of tap water and rarely buy bottled water unless travelling through a developing country.

[pablo222]

delete

Edited December 13, 2013 by pablo222

[chengkp75]

Your guest speaker may know quite a bit about water, but he is not very knowledgeable about ship's water.

 

Most cruise ships - depending on their age - have 2 possible choices in producing fresh water from sea water; distillation and reverse osmosis.many use both methods

Both systems require extra fuel ($$) to produce that water.Don't totally agree with this. RO units are totally electric, and do use extra fuel to operate, but except for the small amount of power to run the pumps, 90% of the "power" for an evaporator is waste heat from the diesel engines that if not used would be rejected to the sea anyway.

With fuel prices at an all-time high, it currently costs us around US$6 per ton to produce fresh water using these systems.

The water produced onboard is absolutely pure, but also completely lacking in minerals. When this water is pumped through metal pipes to your cabin, the metal ions in the pipes are quickly leeched out, causing leaks and pipe failures. So the cruise line has to add mineral salts to the purified water in order to help save the pipes. These mineral salts are not completely effective, but they do help. These salts also add a bit of taste to the water.The most commonly used mineral treatment to adjust the Ph of distilled water is Calcium Carbonate. When you say that "mineral salts" are added, you just fuel the fire of those who claim that salt in the ship's water causes swelling.

 

All potable water on ships - regardles of the source - has small amounts of chlorine and bromine added to kill any bacteria in the water.

All potable water - regardles of the source - on ships built after 1995 is also exposed to intense ultraviolet radiation that kills anything and everything living in the water. When that water reaches your cabin, it is absolutely free of any bacteriological danger.UV sterilization is not required, but frequently used. USPH does not recognize UV sterilization as an alternate to halogenization for sterilizing. Having said that, you are right that the water produced onboard is chlorinated before going to the tanks, and the water loaded in port is also chlorinated before going into the tank. Unlike your home, the water on the ship is constantly circulated, and is constantly chlorinated, as the free chlorine ions will dissipate over time.

 

Many ports around the world are quite happy to sell potable water to cruise ships. The price is generally between US$3 and US$4 per ton.

One advantage - aside from lower cost - is the fact that shore-produced water contains the metal and mineral ions lacking in ship-produced water. The more shore water we use, the longer our pipes last (and the more money and fuel we save).This is why many ships use plastic piping for their potable water systems.

 

A large Princess ship consumes around 3,000 tons of fresh water per day. If they bunker 30,000 tons of water in a port, the company saves between $60,000 and $90,000 in operating costs over a 10 day period.

 

You can imagine that every cruise line is more than happy to purchase potable water in any port at every opportunity.

 

Not sure about your ships, but most ships bunker water from shore not for cost savings as their first priority, but due to itinerary constraints, where port time exceeds sailing time (the only time they can make water, regardless of what type of watermaker is used). Itineraries with sea days tend to bunker water in port less than those without sea days.

 

A PP mentioned crew bringing bottled water onboard. This is usually a sign that the cruise line is not paying to keep recharging the Calcium Carbonate in the rehardening system, and yes, drinking distilled over long periods is not good for you, as the water will leach minerals from your teeth and bones just as Bruce says for the pipes onboard.

 

Another PP wondered about laundry. Most ships, from my experience, tend to use the water condensed from the A/C system for the ship's laundry. Those of you with central A/C at home know about the need for a small condensate pump to remove the condensed water from your unit. On a cruise ship, depending on the itinerary and time of year, this can amount to a couple of hundred tons of water a day.

 

Shore water sources, regardless of country, must meet WHO sanitation standards, and have records of this which must be retained onboard for inspection by USPH, and there are additional sanitizing processes for the shore connection, hoses, etc.

 

USPH requires that the ship's water tanks that are bunkered from shore, be tested for coliform bacteria prior to being used. This test takes 18-24 hours, so that tank must be quarantined until the test comes back negative. Water from 6 various places around the ship (sinks, showers, drinking fountains, etc) must also be tested monthly for bacteria.

Edited December 13, 2013 by chengkp75

[Iamcruzin]

I don't bring bottled water on a cruise I don't even purchase it on board. However, on my Celebrity cruise I had the drink package that included water. I would normally drink the ships tap water but on a few occasions in different eating venues the water tasted chlorinated. I was happy that I was able to get the bottled water that was included in the package. At home I buy the store brand water for convenience to bring to work and the beach or gym. By no means do I think the water is any purer than tap water.

[Iamcruzin]

All this talk about the water but no one mentions that horrible waste of plastic.:rolleyes:

We recycle here but if it isn't the plastic water bottle it will be a plastic soda, juice or milk bottle. If you use a refillable bottle you are wasting water to wash it and adding phosphates into the environment from the soap.

[chengkp75]

I don't bring bottled water on a cruise I don't even purchase it on board. However, on my Celebrity cruise I had the drink package that included water. I would normally drink the ships tap water but on a few occasions in different eating venues the water tasted chlorinated. I was happy that I was able to get the bottled water that was included in the package. At home I buy the store brand water for convenience to bring to work and the beach or gym. By no means do I think the water is any purer than tap water.

 

That is interesting. Most folks say that if they drink the water from the buffet, but not the sink, they don't get the water retention. My comment about that is that the chlorine tends to produce a scale on the inside of the piping on the ship, and this can cause maintenance problems with drink dispensers and ice makers. So the water dispensers at the buffet, the water dispensers at the beverage stations in the dining venues that they fill the water pitchers from, the ice makers, and the soda guns at the bars, will have carbon filters on them to remove the chlorine.

[BridgeMates]

Not sure about your ships, but most ships bunker water from shore not for cost savings as their first priority, but due to itinerary constraints, where port time exceeds sailing time (the only time they can make water, regardless of what type of watermaker is used). Itineraries with sea days tend to bunker water in port less than those without sea days.

 

A PP mentioned crew bringing bottled water onboard. This is usually a sign that the cruise line is not paying to keep recharging the Calcium Carbonate in the rehardening system, and yes, drinking distilled over long periods is not good for you, as the water will leach minerals from your teeth and bones just as Bruce says for the pipes onboard.

 

Another PP wondered about laundry. Most ships, from my experience, tend to use the water condensed from the A/C system for the ship's laundry. Those of you with central A/C at home know about the need for a small condensate pump to remove the condensed water from your unit. On a cruise ship, depending on the itinerary and time of year, this can amount to a couple of hundred tons of water a day.

 

Shore water sources, regardless of country, must meet WHO sanitation standards, and have records of this which must be retained onboard for inspection by USPH, and there are additional sanitizing processes for the shore connection, hoses, etc.

 

USPH requires that the ship's water tanks that are bunkered from shore, be tested for coliform bacteria prior to being used. This test takes 18-24 hours, so that tank must be quarantined until the test comes back negative. Water from 6 various places around the ship (sinks, showers, drinking fountains, etc) must also be tested monthly for bacteria.

 

 

Interesting discussion. Thanks to both of you.

[swifty]

What tastes the best?

[melody hounddog]

So.....is it safe to drink from the tap in your room?

[paul929207]

So.....is it safe to drink from the tap in your room?

Yes.

[FLACRUISER99]

What tastes the best?

I have never encountered bad tasting bottled water. However I have occasionally tasted ships water that had a strong chlorine taste.