Why all the complaints?

[chamima]

I am going to try and propose a different explanation for the complainers.

Instead of just saying "Oh well, Celebrity (or fill in your company of choice) has downgraded or taken away something important to me and now I'll just quit using that company" , I think the "complainers" are hoping to reach the company (in this case Celebrity) so that they realize that their change is NOT ok with their customers and re-think that change.

 

I am just speaking for myself.

If I felt something was truly awful and not reversible I would just take my $$$ and myself and move on.

By "complaining" on here I am making my concerns known to the company as part of a group of people and not just through an individual email which is more easily dismissed.

[Gracie115]

I am going to try and propose a different explanation for the complainers.

Instead of just saying "Oh well, Celebrity (or fill in your company of choice) has downgraded or taken away something important to me and now I'll just quit using that company" , I think the "complainers" are hoping to reach the company (in this case Celebrity) so that they realize that their change is NOT ok with their customers and re-think that change.

 

I am just speaking for myself.

If I felt something was truly awful and not reversible I would just take my $$$ and myself and move on.

By "complaining" on here I am making my concerns known to the company as part of a group of people and not just through an individual email which is more easily dismissed.

 

I think this is an accurate impression of many "complainers" here.... me included....we like the X product.....we just don't like some things that have changed in recent years.... saying nothing is like being complicit with the change..... if you don't make your feelings known then X "assumes" the cutback/change is just peachy keen with everyone..... and sometimes it's just NOT..... I run a resort..... one of the worst things to hear from a guest is when they are leaving and THEN they relate some bad experience they had on the 1st day of their stay....that could have been corrected if they had just said something earlier...... I WANT to have the chance to fix what's wrong...not wait until after the fact when there is nothing I can do.... whether X looks at it that way or not who knows...... but at least they can't say they never got any feedback.... we at CC make sure of that!!! :eek::D

[Brad1185]

With the cutbacks, downgrades and extra charges happening on a daily basis I surprised you needed to ask

[ghstudio]

I believe in the "vote with your $'s approach (which we are now doing on some cruises...we're no longer celebrity loyalists) but I also believe that if you are unpleased, you should let management know...and I believe that if I say something alone, it doesn't get very high on the list...but if I mention it here and others agree, corroborate, or amplify my concern, management might just pay some attention to a general issue....so I talk about issues/problems here. I also try to be balanced and mention some of the excellent things that celebrity offers and my view of Celebrity as the best of the mass market cruise lines.

 

Fortunately, over the years, we have found Celebrity ships and HQ are essentially (perhaps thankfully) almost completely disconnected. The ships, their officers and staff are almost universally excellent, friendly, concerned and responsive to issues that they are aware of. Celebrity HQ, the other company, seems to be aloof with little focus on customer service (agents/web) and a seemingly compete disregard for customer suggestions, issues, complaints...a disregard for communicating anything other than sales information to their passengers (no notifications of changes) and a sporadic, inconsistent participation in the social media with information that you can't rely on.

 

So it's the good and the bad...Many, if not most, complaints I see on cruise critic are generally about something HQ did, a decision, a note from HQ to the ships...and I see much fewer concerning the ships and ship operations.

 

If HQ would just get a little passenger centric rather than solely focusing on $'s, I suspect the complaints would rapidly drop. Passenger centric and $'s are not mutually exclusive. Look at LL Bean....

Edited December 26, 2015 by ghstudio

[Flafun888]

I am not loyal to any cruise line I will pick the itinerary first that fits my time scale and do like to try different ships. I've only done a couple of cruises so far - 1 on X and one on Princess - but trying to adhere to this philosophy as I get into cruising more. I think it helps reduce expectations and aggravations in the future.

 

I know that if I had cruised on one line primarily for multiple times/years, I'd feel like I "invested" my loyalty/time and helped support that brand's success - especially if I accrued enough points for preferred status like so many passengers here. That would make me far more aggravated when things were downgraded. It's so much harder to abandon ship when you feel invested in a brand or have something of value to lose.

 

I know people with tons of frequent-flier points at legacy airlines they hate - brands that score among the lowest in service. They continue to have poor experiences, but feel compelled to book because of those points or perks.

 

If I can refrain from chasing points or status- I can ditch a brand whenever it disappoints me without regrets. It feels more freeing somehow - even though I may be missing out on certain privileges.

[rjrpar]

I am not loyal to any cruise line I will pick the itinerary first that fits my time scale and do like to try different ships. I've only done a couple of cruises so far - 1 on X and one on Princess - but trying to adhere to this philosophy as I get into cruising more. I think it helps reduce expectations and aggravations in the future.

 

 

 

I know that if I had cruised on one line primarily for multiple times/years, I'd feel like I "invested" my loyalty/time and helped support that brand's success - especially if I accrued enough points for preferred status like so many passengers here. That would make me far more aggravated when things were downgraded. It's so much harder to abandon ship when you feel invested in a brand or have something of value to lose.

 

 

 

I know people with tons of frequent-flier points at legacy airlines they hate - brands that score among the lowest in service. They continue to have poor experiences, but feel compelled to book because of those points or perks.

 

 

 

If I can refrain from chasing points or status- I can ditch a brand whenever it disappoints me without regrets. It feels more freeing somehow - even though I may be missing out on certain privileges.

 

 

If one looks at the value of all the loyalty perks at a given cruise line, it really doesn't amount to very much. Surely not enough to prevent shopping around to get a good itinerary, a good price, etc.

[chamima]

I

 

 

 

If HQ would just get a little passenger centric rather than solely focusing on $'s, I suspect the complaints would rapidly drop. Passenger centric and $'s are not mutually exclusive. Look at LL Bean....

 

 

 

Or Costco!!! :D

[Happy Cruiser 6143]

I believe in the "vote with your $'s approach (which we are now doing on some cruises...we're no longer celebrity loyalists) but I also believe that if you are unpleased, you should let management know...and I believe that if I say something alone, it doesn't get very high on the list...but if I mention it here and others agree, corroborate, or amplify my concern, management might just pay some attention to a general issue....so I talk about issues/problems here. I also try to be balanced and mention some of the excellent things that celebrity offers and my view of Celebrity as the best of the mass market cruise lines.

 

Fortunately, over the years, we have found Celebrity ships and HQ are essentially (perhaps thankfully) almost completely disconnected. The ships, their officers and staff are almost universally excellent, friendly, concerned and responsive to issues that they are aware of. Celebrity HQ, the other company, seems to be aloof with little focus on customer service (agents/web) and a seemingly compete disregard for customer suggestions, issues, complaints...a disregard for communicating anything other than sales information to their passengers (no notifications of changes) and a sporadic, inconsistent participation in the social media with information that you can't rely on.

 

So it's the good and the bad...Many, if not most, complaints I see on cruise critic are generally about something HQ did, a decision, a note from HQ to the ships...and I see much fewer concerning the ships and ship operations.

 

If HQ would just get a little passenger centric rather than solely focusing on $'s, I suspect the complaints would rapidly drop. Passenger centric and $'s are not mutually exclusive. Look at LL Bean....

 

I agree with this. I've often maintained that if corporate were driving the ships, they'd all be at the bottom of the ocean. I'm not a shareholder, so, while I'm glad that the company is profitable, I don't think that profit and customer satisfaction are mutually exclusive. Celebrity doesn't seem to have figured this out yet.

 

[grandgeezer]

If one looks at the value of all the loyalty perks at a given cruise line, it really doesn't amount to very much. Surely not enough to prevent shopping around to get a good itinerary, a good price, etc.

 

There is some value to perks if they fit in to what you want. For example, we are Elite Plus not bragging just stating a fact. For each cruise we each get 240 internet minutes ($109 each), two bags of wash and fold laundry ($20 each), 2 hours of free drinks, every night except embarkation and Officers party(put your own price in depending on what you drink), free unlimited specialty coffee drinks ($5+ each), one scoop of gelato ($5.50), free pressing of two items, one free dry cleaning, and others that we don't use. All this plus a great time on the cruise stopped us from looking anywhere else, until now. The cutbacks and rising prices have made us step back and rethink cruising for now. For the first time in thirteen years we have no cruises planned or none that we are even watching.

We'll see what happens in the future, but we are not very optimistic that things will change.

[2CatsInFlorida]

Or perhaps Woodley is just a "glass half full" person rather than a "glass half empty" person. There is a psychological difference.

 

 

True, but if I paid for a full glass I want a full glass not one "half" empty or "half full".

[Priya2]

I have been reading these boards for quite a few years and have been on about 30 cruises across most cruise lines. I am amazed how much complaining is going on. If you like me have never had domestic staff & still work, every day on board ship is gift full of relaxation and fun where I can travel in comfort.

 

If we eat in a venue on board and don't like the food then we find something we do like in another place. There are so many choices and we always find more than enough that we do like. If I don't get a towel animal or a pillow chocolate it does not spoil my vacation, when I do get one it makes me smile.

If my bottled water (aqua)isn't complementary any more i will pick one up at the bar before I go back to my room.

 

All the cruise lines are trying to keep prices low and are making small cut backs some of which you can arrange to have in your cabin if you pay more. For example you can order a water package, chocolates and flowers to be in your room. I would prefer lower prices and the option to pay for the extras if I want them.

 

The fact that cruise lines are adding more ships and these ships are usually sailing full means there are a lot of people that really enjoy the amenities and service. Perhaps those people who are having a great vacation are too busy working to pay for their next cruise to come on these boards and give the other side of the story which is in my opinion great value for money, the best way to travel and see the world and the most relaxing kind of vacation I have ever taken.

Well said, I agree. Many 'upsets' written about on the boards are pretty minor. If we travel enough, there will be occasional disapointments. For us, we just let them go as soon as possible. Most are not worth the headspace, as that just ruins more holiday time!

[Shermcruiser]

For me, going on a cruise is like having sex. The worst cruise I have ever been

has been wonderful!!!!:)

[debbaitinger]

Well that got my attention... I feel the same way!

[WpgCruise]

Just my opinion but I think much of the reason for the increased complaints (and not only on the Celebrity board but across most forums) is Change.

 

Most complaints (not all but most) seem to come from long time Celebrity cruisers who have their minds set on a certain product, and any change really can only be negative. An example that comes to mind is the introduction of the Solstice class of ships. When the design details were coming out it was just terrible, there were only 2 elevator banks, this was wrong, that was wrong, cruising as we knew it was going to end.

 

It didn't of course, most adapted, some went elsewhere. Those who left were replaced with new cruisers or seasoned cruisers from other lines who didn't like the change experienced where they were.

 

There is always going to be change, some makes no sense to us, but the only constant will be continued change. We can adapt, we can leave, we can accept and complain, or we can leave and complain. The choice is ours, the control is ours, not Celebrities. Whether we choose Celebrity, another cruise line, or another vacation option is ours.

 

Many of us seem to forget that it was change from a previous vacation experience that brought us to cruise with Celebrity, and it's probably only natural it will be change that has us explore other options.

 

Regardless of where on the change continuum we are, I wish all the best for a happy, healthy, prosperous New Year, and may your vacation choices, whatever they may be, bring happiness, and joy, sharing time with loved ones.

[Bo1953]

I am going to try and propose a different explanation for the complainers.

Instead of just saying "Oh well, Celebrity (or fill in your company of choice) has downgraded or taken away something important to me and now I'll just quit using that company" , I think the "complainers" are hoping to reach the company (in this case Celebrity) so that they realize that their change is NOT ok with their customers and re-think that change.

 

I am just speaking for myself.

If I felt something was truly awful and not reversible I would just take my $$$ and myself and move on.

By "complaining" on here I am making my concerns known to the company as part of a group of people and not just through an individual email which is more easily dismissed.

 

 

I believe a well written/typed letter to HQ would get their attention and a response, good - bad -indifferent, quicker than expecting change through a CC posting, regardless of the fact that someone 'may' be reading all of the threads and noting them.

 

IMO

 

bon voyage

[Host Jazzbeau]

Just my opinion but I think much of the reason for the increased complaints (and not only on the Celebrity board but across most forums) is Change...

 

An example that comes to mind is the introduction of the Solstice class of ships. When the design details were coming out it was just terrible, there were only 2 elevator banks, this was wrong, that was wrong, cruising as we knew it was going to end.

 

That was before the ships had sailed, so people were trying to imagine what they would be like. The difference now is ... we have HEARD the Miami DJs, and we have seen the price hikes that were predicted in official statements [re-read those statements: they are going to keep raising prices as long as they can get away with it]. This is nothing like your example.

[hulamoon]

Have you received a corporate response from Celebrity?

 

I think mostly people want X to know how they feel about the changes, which are often cuts before cruising. Sure there have been some good changes but I am not sure long term fans who felt X was a cut above other mass markets do.

 

I do find many who see cruise lines all the same, less disappointed or not noticing.

[WpgCruise]

The point I was making was that Change itself really is the issue. The example I used of change was the introduction of the "S" Class ships.

 

You can use as many examples as you like, Miami DJ's, increasing prices, whatever, they're all changes, and the point I was making was that some are resistant to change. Good, Bad or Indifferent, change is resisted by some.

 

How we manage that change is our choice.

 

 

That was before the ships had sailed, so people were trying to imagine what they would be like. The difference now is ... we have HEARD the Miami DJs, and we have seen the price hikes that were predicted in official statements [re-read those statements: they are going to keep raising prices as long as they can get away with it]. This is nothing like your example.

[Bo1953]

the point i was making was that change itself really is the issue. The example i used of change was the introduction of the "s" class ships.

 

You can use as many examples as you like, miami dj's, increasing prices, whatever, they're all changes, and the point i was making was that some are resistant to change. Good, bad or indifferent, change is resisted by some.

 

How we manage that change is our choice.

 

 

a++++

[hulamoon]

Change itself, is not my issue. Although I don't claim to speak for everyone.

[Hlitner]

We have never understood this "change" thing whether it be on cruise lines or elsewhere. Change for change sake is simply change! The term in meaningless and just a convenient excuse. If a cruise line substitutes dried out meatloaf for Filet Mignon, it is change. If they substitute small frozen shrimp for decent cold water lobster tail..that is change. If they substitute a recorded sound track for a live orchestra during a production show that is change. If they increase the price of an alternative restaurant from $25 - $50 that is change.

 

And how do you manage that kind of change? Well, some folks just roll over and say all is fine. Others get pretty annoyed.

 

Hank

[keesar]

[quote name=WpgCruise;48585096

 

You can use as many examples as you like' date=' Miami DJ's, increasing prices, whatever, they're all changes, and the point I was making was that some are resistant to change. Good, Bad or Indifferent, change is resisted by some.

 

How we manage that change is our choice.[/quote]

 

What is being missed is that you need to evaluate the change. We have seen changes. If a change is something you do not like, it is your right to speak up. And the company needs to know how cruisers feel about the changes. It appears that there are a number of cruisers who are just happy to get on a ship away from home. That is not the case for many of us.

[rcclfanbp]

Hi Everyone,

 

I think it boils down to a number of items. One glaring item ? So many changes, in such a short period of time. It's making everyone dizzy !!! This leads to questions/comments/confusion/concerns/complaints - you name it.

 

Many of us worry about what the future holds, especially in light of the recent changes.

 

While I sincerely appreciate Celebrity's presence on this forum, IMO, we aren't seeing much activity since their assigned representative left the company. I counted 23 posts this month - many of them being generic replies. We desperately need someone that will connect with us, address our concerns, and keep us up to date.

 

I respect that most executives are under massive pressure to deliver record results, or out they go. I suspect that's amongst the reasons why we're seeing so many changes.

 

To be clear, I'm not blaming Celebrity management for trying new things - but I strongly feel they should communicate more effectively, and, listen to what's being said. There's nothing wrong with reversing decisions, especially when you realize that guests are not pleased. That's what makes a strong management team.

 

Host Andy,

 

Thank you! I believe your comments are very much on point! I just wonder if one of the challenges for the Cruise Critic Community is to determine how our cruise experiences & concerns can be more effectively conveyed through this website. I see many comments (positive & negative) discussed all over this site. But frankly, I sometimes wonder how any cruise ship representative can digest the information on this site (much of it good) in any meaningful way. It just seems too difficult to do at present which may explain "to some extent" their limited participation. I am still learning about this website, so I do apologize if this is already addressed somewhere on the website.

 

Happy Cruising to All!!

[true45]

If the change is an improvement of something all is well such as more or better entertainment or cuisine, great -- not so here. The only change in recent years that is better has been the lavazza coffee.

 

The changes are take aways to the customer whether or not it benefits the stockholder.

 

I'd like changes too, softer towels, return of lobster from cold climes, better service, name entertainment like when we saw Connie Frances, a real celebrity on Celebrity, smaller quieter dining rooms. Little things, big things but not holding my breath.

 

But the changes are almost always downgrades to the passenger -- change is not the bad word, but less isn't more either.

[chamima]

The point I was making was that Change itself really is the issue. The example I used of change was the introduction of the "S" Class ships.

 

You can use as many examples as you like, Miami DJ's, increasing prices, whatever, they're all changes, and the point I was making was that some are resistant to change. Good, Bad or Indifferent, change is resisted by some.

 

How we manage that change is our choice.

 

If the change is an improvement of something all is well such as more or better entertainment or cuisine, great -- not so here. The only change in recent years that is better has been the lavazza coffee.

 

The changes are take aways to the customer whether or not it benefits the stockholder.

 

I'd like changes too, softer towels, return of lobster from cold climes, better service, name entertainment like when we saw Connie Frances, a real celebrity on Celebrity, smaller quieter dining rooms. Little things, big things but not holding my breath.

 

But the changes are almost always downgrades to the passenger -- change is not the bad word, but less isn't more either.

 

 

 

Wpg-

I think the choice of the word "change" might be where you're missing the point.

Substitute the word "cutback" or "downgrade" and see if all the complaints make more sense to you.

Eliminating 24 hour complimentary room service, live music, bottled water for Aqua class, fruit baskets, etc., etc., etc. are not change, they're cutbacks.

Celebrity recently changed the production shows. That's change and, whether or not one likes the new ones, there's no uproar.

They changed the Molecular Bar to the World Class (which I personally think is a slight downgrade but not a big deal) and there's no big uproar.

There is a difference.

Edited December 27, 2015 by chamima