Hey Celebrity, how about a Tahiti/Hawaii itinerary from the west coast?

[El Crucero]

This thread is going off topic. Again, this is not about Celebrity wouldn't, couldn't, shouldn't. Let Celebrity's legal staff figure it out.

 

This is a thread about West Coast US itineraries, not about itineraries starting in OZ or Alaska or Canada. Itineraries for other locations might be a good topic for a different thread.

 

Please let's stay on topic about West Coast itineraries and not worry about the Jones Act or PVSA. Celebrity will figure it out. This is a wish list for those of us looking for more itineraries departing and terminating in California. California itineraries have a huge potential market covering California, Nevada, Arizona, and Colorado (even northern Mexico). Even those who say that California itineraries are not possible, say they would sign up if they did become available.

 

Let's stay on topic and show Celebrity that there is significant interest in more California round trip itineraries!

[ORV]

This thread is going off topic. Again, this is not about Celebrity wouldn't, couldn't, shouldn't. Let Celebrity's legal staff figure it out.

 

This is a thread about West Coast US itineraries, not about itineraries starting in OZ or Alaska or Canada. Itineraries for other locations might be a good topic for a different thread.

 

Please let's stay on topic about West Coast itineraries and not worry about the Jones Act or PVSA. Celebrity will figure it out. This is a wish list for those of us looking for more itineraries departing and terminating in California. California itineraries have a huge potential market covering California, Nevada, Arizona, and Colorado (even northern Mexico). Even those who say that California itineraries are not possible, say they would sign up if they did become available.

 

Let's stay on topic and show Celebrity that there is significant interest in more California round trip itineraries!

 

Any discussion of California itineraries completely involves the PVSA and is a VERY pertinent part of the conversation. Totally on topic.

[PROCRUISE]

Interesting topic. Wanted to cruise The Society Islands and Princess had a nice itinerary until their agreement with Tahiti expired in 2015. Didn't like the extended number of sea days that is included in the 28 day X itinerary and large vessel.

 

So, we've happily settled on Windstar. Package includes roundtrip airfare LAX to Tahiti, hotel in Tahiti for day/night before boarding, 7 day cruise including 2 days in Bora Bora, and hotel room for the day upon disembarkation prior to night flight back to LAX.

 

Options are available to see the South Pacific other than month long cruises offered by X and HAL. :)

[norwegianwood57]

I can see how you may feel that we are here only to express our desire for more itineraries involving the west coast and all the possibilities it affords the Pacific area.

 

That we are not here as legal eagles, nor as strategists telling Celebrity what to do.

 

We are here simply to state , WE WANT CELEBRITY TO BEGIN TO OFFER MORE FROM THE WEST COAST, to the wonders of the Pacific.

 

But it is so hard to avoid discussing all the obstacles that may be preventing it from doing so.

Edited July 8, 2016 by norwegianwood57

[dkjretired]

I can see how you may feel that we are here only to express our desire for more itineraries involving the west coast and all the possibilities it affords the Pacific area.

 

That we are not here as legal eagles, nor as strategists telling Celebrity what to do.

 

We are here simply to state , WE WANT CELEBRITY TO BEGIN TO OFFER MORE FROM THE WEST COAST, to the wonders of the Pacific.

 

But it is so hard to avoid discussing all the obstacles that may be preventing it from doing so.

 

You have a great point and this is a good thread. Celebrity can figure out all the legal niceties. Biggest problem and the bottom line is they only have 9 ships, don't believe there are any other obstacles. They will simply figure out where they can make the most money and I'm sure this has already been done for many of the requests that have been made. ie: Baltimore, New Jersey, Charleston, Jacksonville, Tampa, Galveston, New Orleans. Which to choose from, who knows.

[westcoastcruiser]

I understand there are many potential reasons why Celebrity wouldn't, couldn't, shouldn't offer the kind of cruises suggested. And it is okay to point this out, but this thread is to gauge if these suggested cruises have any interest. ARE YOU LISTENING CELEBRITY? I don't want to use other cruise lines that are not my first choice because there is no other choice!

 

For example, two or three 15 day round trips to Hawai'i a year makes sense, not 20. And one California 28 day round trip to the South Pacific (Hawai'i/Tahiti) a year might make sense. The possibilities are endless. Let me throw out some potential itineraries from California ports (yes there are more than a few on this list who have business education and experience):

- 15 day round trip to Hawai'i (Princess sells these like crazy, but I want to cruise on Celebrity)

- 14 day to Hawai'i/Tahiti with a companion 14 day return to same port that could be booked as a 28 day B2B.

- 8 day wine tour LA/Santa Barbara/San Francisco/ Astoria/ Seattle/ Vancouver with a companion 8 day return on the same route (visiting different wineries) that could be booked as a 16 day B2B. (We did a similar wine tour on Connie to France/Spain/ Portugal and it was spectacular!)

- 10 day Alaska tour LA/ San Francisco/Victoria/various ports in Alaska with a companion 10 day return of different ports in Alaska/ Vancouver/Seattle/LA that could be booked as a 20 day B2B.

- 10 day Central America tour San Diego/Cabo San Lucas/Guatemala/Costa Rica and then a 10 day B2B back to San Diego hitting hitting different ports along the way

- 8 day California Coastal LA/Santa Barbara/Monterey/SF/Catalina/Ensenada/LA (Celebrity already does this one once a year and I think it always sells out way in advance)

 

Well, that's a start. You can quibble about the number of days and port selection, but that is beside the point. What I am suggesting is a concept with details worked out later. Come on cruisers, give Celebrity some more ideas to consider! I do think that all cruise lines are going to have a tough time filling spots on Mediterranean, European, Middle East itineraries for the foreseeable future because of recent "events."

 

 

Was just looking at options for next year and these were on my list. Could find NOTHING that left and returned from west coast! These suggestions are excellent. We love B2B and Celebrity gives almost no west coast options. We want to stay loyal to X but we also want to spend our money cruising where we want to cruise for the length of time we have available. With flying so tedious, X would have no trouble filling these itineraries.

[El Crucero]

Biggest problem and the bottom line is they only have 9 ships, don't believe there are any other obstacles. They will simply figure out where they can make the most money and I'm sure this has already been done for many of the requests that have been made. ie: Baltimore, New Jersey, Charleston, Jacksonville, Tampa, Galveston, New Orleans. Which to choose from, who knows.

 

Baltimore/New Jersey serve the same general geographical location. Charleston, Jacksonville, Tampa the same general area. Galveston and New Orleans again the same general area. Now here in California we have San Diego and LA in the same area, but you throw in San Francisco, Southern NV and Phoenix you have a huge population base, around 10% of the US! If any geographical region deserves one of those 9 ships (soon to be 11), Southern California does!

 

Was just looking at options for next year and these were on my list. Could find NOTHING that left and returned from west coast! These suggestions are excellent. We love B2B and Celebrity gives almost no west coast options. We want to stay loyal to X but we also want to spend our money cruising where we want to cruise for the length of time we have available. With flying so tedious, X would have no trouble filling these itineraries.

 

Thanks for staying on topic. We agree with you on everyone of your points. If Celebrity even offered 6 round trip itineraries a year from Southern California, that would be a big improvement. Currently Celebrity has only one round trip from SoCal next year and that is an 8 day SD/SF/Ensenada/SD itinerary and we have booked it!

Edited July 9, 2016 by El Crucero

[Hydrokitty]

Was just looking at options for next year and these were on my list. Could find NOTHING that left and returned from west coast! These suggestions are excellent. We love B2B and Celebrity gives almost no west coast options. We want to stay loyal to X but we also want to spend our money cruising where we want to cruise for the length of time we have available. With flying so tedious, X would have no trouble filling these itineraries.

 

Totally agree with you...we would love to do South Pacific but haven't because the plane flight to and from Australia is too tedious even with a stop-over in Hawaii. (we live on the east coast). I can understand X not wanting to commit a ship to west coast-south pacific only, but if they could do one or two a season...we also like B2B and noticed there was only one that did Scandinavia and Russia followed by Norway and fjords...both leaving and returning to Southampton. We were so pleased to find it we cancelled a TA and booked the B2B!!

Edited July 9, 2016 by Hydrokitty

[El Crucero]

Totally agree with you...we would love to do South Pacific but haven't because the plane flight to and from Australia is too tedious even with a stop-over in Hawaii. (we live on the east coast). I can understand X not wanting to commit a ship to west coast-south pacific only, but if they could do one or two a season...we also like B2B and noticed there was only one that did Scandinavia and Russia followed by Norway and fjords...both leaving and returning to Southampton. We were so pleased to find it we cancelled a TA and booked the B2B!!

 

Totally agree. How about if Celebrity offered a South Pacific from LA and then a B2B back to LA? That way, people could chose to do the shorter itinerary with a flight back or the longer itinerary returning to the same port. I think a lot of people would be cancelling their current cruises to sign up for this B2B. I could see Celebrity offering this option a couple of times a year (outside of hurricane season), and I bet they would be sold out.

[pcur]

Unfortunately, Princess has taken the Los Angeles-Tahiti roundtrip itinerary out of their inventory. We've done it twice, and it is a truly fantastic cruise. I keep looking for it.

 

HAL is doing this route from San Diego, and the 24-night one in March 2018 looks good.

[zoncom]

Pcur, Crown is doing 28 day RT in Oct. Next year another Princess ship, Emerald also in OCT 29 days from LA.

Edited July 9, 2016 by zoncom

[pcur]

Pcur, Crown is doing 28 day RT in Oct. Next year another Princess ship, Emerald also in OCT 29 days from LA.

 

I missed those! Unfortunately, we are grandbaby-sitting this October, and have a b2b booked next October. I really hope they offer it in 2018. We took ours in March/April.

[Cruise Junky]

I missed those! Unfortunately, we are grandbaby-sitting this October, and have a b2b booked next October. I really hope they offer it in 2018. We took ours in March/April.

 

Pretty sure that's out too. They released two itineraries. One in the fall and one in the spring.

[pcur]

Pretty sure that's out too. They released two itineraries. One in the fall and one in the spring.

 

Thanks! I looked again, and the one in March 2018 just might work.

 

We are debating about whether to switch our b2b in October 2017 for this South Seas itinerary, but we're getting 35 nights for the same price, plus airfare. Hubby likes the food in the buffet on RCCL and Celebrity better.

 

So, that March 2018 might work. Thanks again.

[Cruise Junky]

Thanks! I looked again, and the one in March 2018 just might work.

 

We are debating about whether to switch our b2b in October 2017 for this South Seas itinerary, but we're getting 35 nights for the same price, plus airfare. Hubby likes the food in the buffet on RCCL and Celebrity better.

 

So, that March 2018 might work. Thanks again.

 

I think you'll get drinks on the Princess one. It's part of the sip and sail.

[pcur]

I think you'll get drinks on the Princess one. It's part of the sip and sail.

 

We get free evening drinks with RCCL and X with our loyalty level, so that's not a factor. Personally, I want to go on all three! Right now it's a money thing.

[Hydrokitty]

I looked at Princess cruises for Australia and South Pacific....I couldn't find one that was round trip. The ones I saw started in CA but end in Sydney. I'm looking for a round trip from CA or at least Hawaii. Is anybody doing that?

[Cruise Junky]

I looked at Princess cruises for Australia and South Pacific....I couldn't find one that was round trip. The ones I saw started in CA but end in Sydney. I'm looking for a round trip from CA or at least Hawaii. Is anybody doing that?

 

Princess in both October 2017 and March 2018. They're 28 days

[Hydrokitty]

Princess in both October 2017 and March 2018. They're 28 days

 

Found it! Thanks.....now I have to wait until the bases are loaded two out and the score is tied....THAT'S when I ask DH if he wants to go!! :D

[Cruise Junky]

Found it! Thanks.....now I have to wait until the bases are loaded two out and the score is tied....THAT'S when I ask DH if he wants to go!! :D

 

Lol...good luck ;)

[chengkp75]

I havent the time now to do the research, does anyone know the rationale behind the Jones Act or the PVSA?

 

Not to hijack the thread too much:

 

The origin of the Jones Act was Seattle businessmen who saw the lucrative shipping business to Alaska being taken away by Canadian shipowners. So, contrary to many peoples' opinion, it had nothing to do with protecting US labor interests. What people don't understand about the Jones Act is that there are over 40,000 vessels covered by it (this includes all river traffic by tug/barge, etc), employs half a million US citizens, and has a $100 billion dollar annual economic impact.

 

The origin of the little sister, the PVSA, comes from the rash of steamboat explosions, fires, and sinkings in the 1850's and Congress passing the Steamboat Inspection Act which placed this coastwise and inland traffic under Federal safety inspection. Shipowners retaliated by flagging their ships to foreign countries, and Congress countered by making all coastwise and inland passenger traffic be US flag. To this day, US flag passenger vessels, as well as cargo vessels, must meet stricter safety regulations than the foreign flag cruise ships and cargo ships that call at US ports. Just like the Jones Act, the PVSA pertains to far more than just the cruise industry. It covers every ferry, commuter boat, water taxi, sight seeing or excursion boat, casino boats, and charter fishing vessels in the US.

 

As a further note, about 80 countries worldwide have maritime cabotage laws similar to the Jones Act and PVSA in some form or another, including the EU, Russia, Brazil, Japan, Australia, and China.

[norwegianwood57]

Interesting stuff but if Princess and Hal are managing to involve the west coast, Celeb should be able to as well.

 

If anyone from C reads any of this, maybe , just maybe they will see that the interest is here.

[4774Papa]

Not to hijack the thread too much:

 

The origin of the Jones Act was Seattle businessmen who saw the lucrative shipping business to Alaska being taken away by Canadian shipowners. So, contrary to many peoples' opinion, it had nothing to do with protecting US labor interests. What people don't understand about the Jones Act is that there are over 40,000 vessels covered by it (this includes all river traffic by tug/barge, etc), employs half a million US citizens, and has a $100 billion dollar annual economic impact.

 

The origin of the little sister, the PVSA, comes from the rash of steamboat explosions, fires, and sinkings in the 1850's and Congress passing the Steamboat Inspection Act which placed this coastwise and inland traffic under Federal safety inspection. Shipowners retaliated by flagging their ships to foreign countries, and Congress countered by making all coastwise and inland passenger traffic be US flag. To this day, US flag passenger vessels, as well as cargo vessels, must meet stricter safety regulations than the foreign flag cruise ships and cargo ships that call at US ports. Just like the Jones Act, the PVSA pertains to far more than just the cruise industry. It covers every ferry, commuter boat, water taxi, sight seeing or excursion boat, casino boats, and charter fishing vessels in the US.

 

As a further note, about 80 countries worldwide have maritime cabotage laws similar to the Jones Act and PVSA in some form or another, including the EU, Russia, Brazil, Japan, Australia, and China.

 

Again, thanks for the detailed history of the Federal Law.

 

If Australia and Japan have a similar law, then why do those countries allow cruises that start and end in the country, visiting several ports in those countries. Could it be that their laws are more flexible regarding cruise ships.

 

The only US flag cruise ship that I am aware of is the NCL Pride of America operating out of Hawaii. It seems that the US law designed to preserve traffic between US ports (as well as set safety standards) had failed for the cruise industry.

 

The law should be loosened or repealed regarding the cruise industry.

 

NAFTA allows Mexican trucks to enter the US, if they meet safety standards. The law could be changed, retaining the safety requirements.

 

The US airline industry once was highly regulated and many foreign carriers were not allowed to fly into the USA. That changed with airline deregulation. The relative cost of flying in the USA and to overseas locations has gone way done compared to those days of regulation.

 

Of course, the open skies policies did require some reciprocity with foreign countries, which they have opened up as well.

[El Crucero]

I have started a new thread titled the Jones Act and PVSA. Please post comments about those laws in that thread. Thank you.

[chengkp75]

Again, thanks for the detailed history of the Federal Law.

 

If Australia and Japan have a similar law, then why do those countries allow cruises that start and end in the country, visiting several ports in those countries. Could it be that their laws are more flexible regarding cruise ships.

 

The US also allows foreign ships to start and end in the country, and visit several US ports. The wording of the PVSA was changed in 1985 to reflect "permanent disembarkation" as the criteria for "transportation between US ports", allowing cruise ships to call at multiple US ports, as ports of call. Japan's cabotage law requires a visit to a foreign port (typically Korea) by a foreign cruise ship, just like the PVSA. Oz has some exemptions granted for fixed times or fixed number of voyages for foreign ships, in the same vein as the Puerto Rico exemption, which disappears as soon as someone starts US flag passenger service between PR and the mainland US.

 

The only US flag cruise ship that I am aware of is the NCL Pride of America operating out of Hawaii. It seems that the US law designed to preserve traffic between US ports (as well as set safety standards) had failed for the cruise industry.

 

The law should be loosened or repealed regarding the cruise industry.

 

The problem here is that US and international law do not recognize any difference between a cruise ship and a water taxi. They are both "passenger vessels", so it would be very difficult to craft a law that would apply strictly to the cruise industry, that would stand up to a court challenge by all the other sectors of the passenger vessel industry.

 

NAFTA allows Mexican trucks to enter the US, if they meet safety standards. The law could be changed, retaining the safety requirements.

 

I'm not a NAFTA expert, but I don't believe that it allows a Mexican truck to pick up a load in Dallas and take it to NYC. It can enter to bring a load or take a load to/from Mexico, I believe. This is exactly what the Jones Act and PVSA allow.

 

The US airline industry once was highly regulated and many foreign carriers were not allowed to fly into the USA. That changed with airline deregulation. The relative cost of flying in the USA and to overseas locations has gone way done compared to those days of regulation.

 

You still cannot fly Air Canada from Detroit to New Orleans, without a minimum 4 hour layover in a Canadian city.

 

Of course, the open skies policies did require some reciprocity with foreign countries, which they have opened up as well.

 

The main reason that the US merchant marine is in the sad state it is currently in, is not due to the Jones Act or the PVSA, but the Merchant Marine Act of 1936, which established construction and operating subsidies for US flag ships. This was done to ramp up US shipping for the upcoming WWII, but subsequently, the unions kept asking for wage increases, and the companies said "sure, why not, we're not paying" since the US government was paying the differential between operating as a US flag vessel and a foreign flag vessel. The shipping companies had no incentive to innovate in technology or crewing, as it didn't cost them a dime. When Reagan removed the subsidies, US shipping collapsed. Wages have been stagnant for the 40 years I've been sailing. In other words, in the '70's a Chief Engineer was making the same number of dollars I am making now, but my dollars buys a whole lot less than his.