Huge brawl on the Legend, with video.

[DJTRVL]

Kicking a person on the ground is a felony assault with a dangerous weapon.

 

 

Whose standard of law are you using to throw around this term? US laws don't apply onboard that ship, in international waters, nor any of the ports the ship stopped in. Maritime regulations and Australian rules governing the interaction with those laws would apply. I know a thing or two about the law in the US, but I wouldn't dream of trying to figure this legal cobweb out.

 

Even the video shown would never lead to arrests to the crew, as they will say they were doing all they could to remove the person that had the other security person in a potentially fatal headlock. We can disagree on if that is a viable course of action (it's certainly not how it would be handled in the US I'd can agree).But stating they committed felony assault is an overreaction.

[untailored bostonian]

Whose standard of law are you using to throw around this term? US laws don't apply onboard that ship, in international waters, nor any of the ports the ship stopped in. Maritime regulations and Australian rules governing the interaction with those laws would apply. I know a thing or two about the law in the US, but I wouldn't dream of trying to figure this legal cobweb out.

 

Even the video shown would never lead to arrests to the crew, as they will say they were doing all they could to remove the person that had the other security person in a potentially fatal headlock. We can disagree on if that is a viable course of action (it's certainly not how it would be handled in the US I'd can agree).But stating they committed felony assault is an overreaction.

 

 

Your point is the real point. They can do anything they want. On land what they did is what I said. If they were officers on land that standard would apply.

 

Well, anything they want? Are there any applicable laws that apply to the conduct of the employees of a cruise line?

[coaster]

Surprised this has not been brought up before. I know Royal Caribbean has body cams on their security personnel. It is stated publicly onboard in their daily activity schedule. Does Carnival security personnel also have body cams? I can only think it would help the internal Carnival investigation to review footage captured from these type of cameras to determine if some crew members did not act appropriately to the situation they were involved in.

[untailored bostonian]

Who got assaulted now? No one needed to go to hospital and there was no innocent victim in the video as far as I can tell.

 

The reality is “land” laws and “Cruise” are not the same. Each kick in the real world is a felonious assault. The one being kicked is the victim. Injury, going to the hospital, is not germane.

[sfaaa]

There are already cameras all over the ship and in public areas. There is no need for body cams.

[Lakesregion]

But in this instance it was about security. I don't see the need to wax philosophically about the current state of our society in this thread. All we need to know is that this group was causing issues for the better part of the cruise to date and that it finally took this brawl before said family was removed from the ship.

 

Furthermore, the response of the security detail was abhorrent and raises the question of just what kind of training these folks receive. It certainly doesn't make me feel like I would be safe if something like this broke out on a ship I was on.

 

And let's not forget the recent 4 health inspection failures, with one being the newest ship in the fleet and that one just BARELY passing the follow-up inspection. Forget the nonchalant boiler-plate press release issued by Carnival which fails to address an systemic issue within the Carnival culture that is allowing issues like we are seeing to perpetuate.

 

I feel it's been a bad few months for Carnival.

 

Thank you for helping make my case by trying to excuse behavior that should never occur. That is my premise and we are living the results daily all around the world.

[coaster]

There are already cameras all over the ship and in public areas. There is no need for body cams.

 

There are cameras all over Royal ships also. Yet, they take the extra step to use body cams. Footage from a different angle is not a bad thing in an investigation.

[GailnBrad]

Why are animals allowed on cruise ships?? They should be arrested!

[Keys2Heaven]

Thank you for helping make my case by trying to excuse behavior that should never occur. That is my premise and we are living the results daily all around the world.

 

You're so off base if you interpreted my response as excusing behavior.

[USNUZULOOSE]

Well, no excuse for the security on the ship. Violence leads to more violence. Yup that is what we want to do. And security attacking people who filmed it. Uncalled for.

[70SS350]

There are already cameras all over the ship and in public areas. There is no need for body cams.

So when security has to be called to a cabin for a disturbance or any other reason "there is no reason for a body cam"? You don't know what they would be walking into. Having a body cam would help.

[gailforce2000]

Are the 'Jerry Springer' like security uniforms standard on all Carnival ships?

 

 

 

LOL

 

 

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[torcruise]

Thank you for helping make my case by trying to excuse behavior that should never occur. That is my premise and we are living the results daily all around the world.

Sounds like you are excusing the behavior of the guards, both behaviors should never occur.

[GUT2407]

Security officers in general are not trained to handle a situation like this. I wouldn’t expect better than average training for cruise ship security. It’s not fair to put someone in a violent and dangerous situation that they haven’t been equipped or trained to handle and then turn around and expect them to be fired when they can’t handle it. Would be kinda like taking you and putting you in a position of a NASA engineer and then firing you when you can’t get a space shuttle to launch.

 

I’m in law enforcement and dealing with an active fight involving multiple parties is harder to deal with than it sounds. It does take training, equipment, and enough personnel to stop it safely. I don’t expect any security guard most likely making minimum wages on a cruise ship to put themselves in the middle of a fight and get beat up themselves.

 

And just btw, tasers and batons wouldn’t have helped much. Mace is the right tool for that situation. If security doesn’t carry mace, have to wait till you’re have more guards than fighters before you intervene. Then u go through in pairs, cuffing everyone up. A guard acting alone to break up a fight is a recipe for disaster

 

 

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Mace??

 

With 100s of others in a confined space and largely closed atmosphere???

[FamilyOfSix]

It always amazes me when cops or security try to take phones away from witnesses.

[ccsclean21]

Highly trained and professional security staff... where? I couldn't see any in those videos only thugs with security on their shirts

I known some times one feels like kicking some people as they deserve it but you can't and if you did you could be sued and in this instance I think these security staff have possibly opened the door to a lawsuit as all the guy that was been kicked has to say was that he was just watching when attacked by the security staff and kicked while on ground which it shows on the videos and news agencies. bad move by Carnival. It is quite obvious that these security staff are not train or profession as to the way they handled the whole thing, they spent more time and man power attacking one person who was already down and letting the main trouble making group continue brawling. You pay peanuts and you get monkeys. When I was on the Eden while doing safety drill I noticed a bull horn on the deck next to me, now that would have been very useful in getting control of the situation by just putting the horn on squelch at full blast and everybody would have stopped, wondering what it was as this would be a human response then put back to load speaker and in a very strong voice tell everyone to drop this would give the security enough time to move in on the ring leaders and bring it to a Holt and if that failed use a fire extinguisher and spray the main group then grab them while they are incapacitated by the product from the extinguisher. Could use foam, makes a mess but very slippery on smooth surfaces, CO2 a little bit more cleaner, then there is the good old powder type extinguisher and a big big mess but hey if it stops a brawl why not, but kicking someone while they are down, very bad move, all they were doing was going for the easiest target. Years ago if a brawl broke out on a cruise ship it was controlled very quickly and quietly. you watch the cruise lines bring in a policy banning people from filming incidents on board but footage can be good for evidence in court and in this instance I think staff might have been trying to hide the kicking that the guy was getting. All this shows is how vulnerable a cruise ship is. All the staff had to do with the guy they were kicking was put ties on his hands and move to the next trouble maker, not join in. The bunch that caused this brawl should pay for wrecking the cruise for all the innocent passengers on that cruise and they should be banned from every cruise line and airline because if they brawl on a ship they'll do it on a plane.

[Djptcp]

How silly to be "terrified" to cruise on Carnival. DH and I just got off our 31st Carnival cruise on Monday and our 44th cruise overall. Never have we encountered anything like what happened on the Legend on the four cruise lines we have sailed.

[cruizinrican]

Correct but the super cheap fares are attracting certain types of people.

 

 

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Absolutely, I've noticed an increase in the last couple of years.

 

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[Keys2Heaven]

Nothing to be afraid of here! If you do a YouTube search for fights on cruise ships you'll find others that didn't happen on carnival. This was a bunch of drunken idiots that can't behave like civilized people. I've cruised 7 Carnival cruises now and have never experienced anything like this. But if you're truly terrified of Carnival, thankfully there's many other cruise lines you can choose from ��

 

No news story indicate that they were drunk. The came onboard with a mob mentality looking to pick fights.

[GlamorousGirl]

Funny how if one incident happens it's all over the media, but you don't hear about the thousands of cruises where nothing bad happened! This could have happened absolutely ANYWHERE. It could even happen in your neighborhood if you stay home! Definitely not a reason not to travel or not to sail on Carnival!

[sanger727]

I’ll be on that ship in the fall, and from what I saw the CCL security team committed multiple acts of felonious assault on passengers.

 

 

 

Can argue this point back and forth all day. But any passenger who got ‘assaulted’ by security put themselves in that situation. If you see something like that unfolding in front of you, and security is aware, the smartest thing you can do is walk away. More people in the area just increases the confusion and danger level. If it’s not your fight, no reason to get involved unless you are watching someone getting seriously injured or killed in front of you and there’s no appropriate personnel around to get involved. Taking the stance that security is the one doing the injuring and u are going to stop an injustice will most likely end with you getting kicked off the boat too.

 

 

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[Keys2Heaven]

Can argue this point back and forth all day. But any passenger who got ‘assaulted’ by security put themselves in that situation. If you see something like that unfolding in front of you, and security is aware, the smartest thing you can do is walk away. More people in the area just increases the confusion and danger level. If it’s not your fight, no reason to get involved unless you are watching someone getting seriously injured or killed in front of you and there’s no appropriate personnel around to get involved. Taking the stance that security is the one doing the injuring and u are going to stop an injustice will most likely end with you getting kicked off the boat too.

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All the video showed me is how inadequately trained ship's security staff is in dealing with these types of situations. I wouldn't get involved, but this was happening most of the trip? Yeah I get the "tossing 'em as a last resort" because we want warm fuzzies all the time, but this was a bunch of BS that should have been dealt with swiftly and severely when this group first attacked another passenger earlier in the trip.

[coaster]

I'm a big whimp but I've spent enough time in strip clubs and other seedy places with "security" to know how it all works. The best way to keep this type of stuff from happening is to have security presence who aren't looking to fight and are actually really nice and cool to the clientele.

 

 

The most honest post I have ever see online. Speechless... Thank you for sharing your opinion.

[beachbum6264]

OTOH the CCL security team committed many filmed acts of felony assault on cruise passengers. It is called assault by means of a dangerous weapon, i.e. by means of a shod foot. So are you ok with that?

 

No, but I never said anything about the security team- just the thugs that started this mess. They show up in many different places, so no reason to be terrified of Carnival - it could happen anywhere. Only way to be sure you won't view a fight is to stay in the safety of your home.

The security team acted abominably, they should be fired/charged.

[2CatsInFlorida]

I remember a fight between two passengers over a hamburger and yes it was on carnival. But our two carnival cruises had well behaved passengers.

 

 

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