Huge brawl on the Legend, with video.

[Podna's]

Blows my mind how many people are this bothered by isolated incidents and let it affect future trips for them.

 

 

 

It’s not nearly as bad as you think. I promise you 99.9% of future trip holders won’t even blink an eye at this. Most here that say it just like to bash. They don’t have a cruise booked and never intended to book one. But it makes them feel good.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[coaster]

I agree the video has little effect here. It will be different when network TV news picks this up though. Folks who have never cruised or sailed Carnival may think twice about it in the future.

[Keys2Heaven]

The video is much more understandable after reading the various articles. Sounds like this family was just roaming the ship looking for a fight. One man said he was attacked by them after making eye contact in the hallway and spent a couple days hiding from them. Another man appears to have gotten beat down on the lido for something to do with a thong. I bet security has never had to deal with anything like them. They are really just a keep the peace force.

 

I'm not familiar with this 10 day itinerary, but if they were this violent prior to this brawl and the ship docked somewhere (prior to them being booted in Eden), why the heck weren't they thrown off earlier? Why was this the straw that broke Carnival security's back.

[coaster]

The security personnel and officers kicking people when they were down should of been escorted off the ship and charged also. It goes both ways.

[Purvis1231]

The crew kicking at the people does not bother me, except it was totally ineffective. I cannot believe the security had no clue how to handle this situation. I have been told that most of the security personnel were former Indian military- if so they must have been cooks or clerks and not real soldiers.

[Keys2Heaven]

The crew kicking at the people does not bother me, except it was totally ineffective. I cannot believe the security had no clue how to handle this situation. I have been told that most of the security personnel were former Indian military- if so they must have been cooks or clerks and not real soldiers.

 

It bothers ME precisely because it was ineffective and looked like a bunch of inept children trying to get their licks in. I'm surprised they didn't throw their shoes at them as well! I know we're all Monday-morning quarterbacking this now, but why, why, why were these folks not shown the exit door sooner? No ports around? The story being told is that this family was trouble the moment they got on board.

[disneylover89]

These responses that excuse the Security guards behavior are troubling. Since when is it okay to literally & figuratively kick a man while he is down? It is evident that either they haven't received training on how to handle these situations or they let their personal feelings get in the way of professionalism. Either way...it is a very bad look for Carnival. Someone has to remain professional & exhibit judgement above that of passengers.

If you watched the video, the man who was down had another man in a headlock under him. The staff was trying to separate him from the man he was attacking. The attacker is an animal and deserved to be kicked.

[Keys2Heaven]

The attacker is an animal and deserved to be kicked.

 

He and his poor excuse of a family deserved to be "kicked" off a heck of a lot sooner.

[coaster]

Apparently, some of the crew were upset the kicks were being recorded. Makes me wonder why they felt it was a priority to try to halt the recording if they thought the kicks were appropriate.

[summersigh]

My guess is the fighters were drunk. They were determined to fight. They were not going to stop for anyone. The security members first tried to pull them apart but the fighters aren't about to quit.

If I was a security guard I wouldn't have kicked to try to break it up - but as out of control as the fighters looked I wouldn't have gotten in the range of their punches either. Probably should have ignored the cameras too.

 

I was a teacher for years and sometimes had to try to break up a fight. Many times I've seen persons trying to stop the fight get hurt worse than the fighters. Fighters in a rage are deaf to de-esculation efforts.

[summersigh]

I have a question for those appalled by the kicking....

If you were the one trapped in a headlock by a person already know to security as a violent person - what would you expect them to do after trying to pull the guy off you?

Just curious

[Purvis1231]

You go thru a scanner before boarding the ship in the US - don't have guns in their pockets and handbags on a ship.

 

Maybe we need a gun on this ship.

[sw33twif3]

I would like to see Carnival do more about limiting excessive drinking. I cruise out of New Orleans (live here) and I've seen people get on board still drunk from being on Bourbon St. the night before the cruise and get belligerent when they have to wait to board the ship. Security at the terminal is usually off duty NOPD or Homeland Security, so they don't put up with much in the terminal. But aboard ship it can be ridiculous the amount of drunks wandering about, barfing on deck or in the hallways. fighting with spouses or sigs in public areas. And being obnoxiously loud. I do drink alcohol and love hanging out at the Alchemy Bar, but I do know my limits. Can't get through Mardi Gras without knowing how to pace yourself.

[salty dingo]

I have no problem with security kicking people on the floor who are fighting.

 

I had my dog at a dog park when she and another dog got locked into a vicious fight. I had to kick the stew out of them both to get them to stop. No way I was going to reach my hand into that gnarling mess of teeth!

 

I love my dogs dearly but if they fight they are going to get kicked.

[les37b]

I have a question for those appalled by the kicking....

 

If you were the one trapped in a headlock by a person already know to security as a violent person - what would you expect them to do after trying to pull the guy off you?

 

Just curious

 

 

There is zero excuse for kicking someone so stop trying to justify the actions of a thug.

 

Here’s one for you.

 

If they weren’t doing anything wrong, why were they stopping anyone filming them and creating more fuss about that than these thugs.

 

As others have alluded. This family had been causing trouble from boarding and there was ample opportunity at previous ports to get them off the ship. No cruise line wants or deserves to put up with low life’s like these. Had they done that, they wouldn’t have then assaulted anyone.

 

I believe that would be the preferred choice rather than support loutish behaviour of carnival staff.

Edited February 16, 2018 by les37b

[Stick93]

Maybe carnival should use this a promotion - free kicks aboard the fun ship.

 

Cannot believe anyone thinks the security clowns acted with any dignity. They were kicking for the sake of kicking. Didn’t see anyone trying to help the situation with the kicks.

 

Maybe shaq can come aboard and lay some fun kicks on my next cruise!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[Solent Richard]

This one of yours? Monarch of The Seas?

 

 

Whoops. :evilsmile::evilsmile:

[les37b]

Whoops. :evilsmile::evilsmile:

 

Good grief! There is a whole nights viewing of carnival brawls there in that link!

 

I thought this was a one off?

 

I saw someone request his main course was replaced on a Silversea cruise once. Luckily the chef didn’t take offence and raise his paw paws. Lol

[BookDragon]

I have a question for those appalled by the kicking....

If you were the one trapped in a headlock by a person already know to security as a violent person - what would you expect them to do after trying to pull the guy off you?

Just curious

 

I can only answer based on my experience working in schools. My husband is retired military and now works in my school district with our most troubled high schoolers/parolees. We are CPI trained which teaches us how to restrain appropriately and how to break holds in ways that cause as little bodily harm for ourselves and the other person as possible. We also have been trained in self defense, crowd control (for school purposes) & to utilize pressure points. In my personal life, when I am camping or hiking, I carry mace, a taser, zip ties & a switch blade. As a woman who sometimes camps & hikes by herself or just other women, you cannot take chances! I say all this because in all our trainings including military training we were never advised to run in & arbitrarily kick someone! The goal is de-escalation.

[Kanyon71]

Working as a bouncer in a couple of clubs in my younger days I never kicked anyone. I also was very careful when and how I interjected myself into situations like this. Worst part of things like this is you are trying to get two people going at it apart and you have to be on the lookout to make sure other's aren't coming to the aid of their friend in the fight already.

 

Doesn't matter what cruise line you're on, what resort you're at or what club you're in stupidity, immaturity and as we always referred to it Liquid Courage don't mix well together. People become much more aggressive when they drink a lot and to be honest it's somewhat on the bartenders and such to watch how you're acting while drinking. While saying that people will get around being cut off if they are determined enough to keep drinking and I've also seen more than a few people want to start in on the bar staff when cut off.

[Amyracecar]

I think two opposing arguments on this thread can be summed up by my feelings on this.

 

Firstly, there is absolutely no justification for people employed as security guards to kick people. They're meant to be trained to take people down safely and with as little violent action as possible (if anything to avoid the person on the ground taking legal action against them later on) As has already been said, it sounds like these people should have been kicked off much earlier than this particular incident anyway.

 

But secondly, if someone was spoiling my cruise by roaming around being violent and attacking other guests, I think as a passenger I'd probably be imagining running over and sticking the boot in as they were being restrained! I'm not a security professional so should be afforded the same luxuries as the thugs on the floor, after all.

[Kanyon71]

I can only answer based on my experience working in schools. My husband is retired military and now works in my school district with our most troubled high schoolers/parolees. We are CPI trained which teaches us how to restrain appropriately and how to break holds in ways that cause as little bodily harm for ourselves and the other person as possible. We also have been trained in self defense, crowd control (for school purposes) & to utilize pressure points. In my personal life, when I am camping or hiking, I carry mace, a taser, zip ties & a switch blade. As a woman who sometimes camps & hikes by herself or just other women, you cannot take chances! I say all this because in all our trainings including military training we were never advised to run in & arbitrarily kick someone! The goal is de-escalation.

Exactly de-escalate the situation while putting yourself if as little danger of bodily harm as possible. When you turn to kicking you are showing that you have lost control of not only the situation but your self control also. At this point you become part of the problem yourself.

 

We where trained to take them down quickly, in a controlled manner and get them away from the situation as fast as we safely can. People always need to remember when you are security this isn't personal, you have a job and need to do that job the right way to keep the guests, your co-workers and yourself safe.

[sanger727]

Security officers in general are not trained to handle a situation like this. I wouldn’t expect better than average training for cruise ship security. It’s not fair to put someone in a violent and dangerous situation that they haven’t been equipped or trained to handle and then turn around and expect them to be fired when they can’t handle it. Would be kinda like taking you and putting you in a position of a NASA engineer and then firing you when you can’t get a space shuttle to launch.

 

I’m in law enforcement and dealing with an active fight involving multiple parties is harder to deal with than it sounds. It does take training, equipment, and enough personnel to stop it safely. I don’t expect any security guard most likely making minimum wages on a cruise ship to put themselves in the middle of a fight and get beat up themselves.

 

And just btw, tasers and batons wouldn’t have helped much. Mace is the right tool for that situation. If security doesn’t carry mace, have to wait till you’re have more guards than fighters before you intervene. Then u go through in pairs, cuffing everyone up. A guard acting alone to break up a fight is a recipe for disaster

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

Edited February 16, 2018 by sanger727

[Boatdrill]

The family that was removed from the ship behaved like thugs. They were so violent and threatening to other passengers that security locked a few of these thugs inside their rooms to contain them. Reports in the media describe an very unsafe and tense atmosphere onboard for passengers and crew.

 

Yet oddly most of the comments posted have been about the security team's behavior as they tried to break up the violence. I agree that the crew member who attempted to take away someone's camera was wrong to do so. Other than that, security did the job they are hired to do. If you don't like how it was handled, let them know the next time one of them helps you on your cruise.

[coaster]

I do know security on some cruise lines is taken very seriously. Some have former Israeli military officers in their security ranks. Not being able to properly subdue some drunks is pretty disturbing. The threat to passenger safety could of been far worse than this.