Automatic Gratuities

[keithm]

During a 20 day B2B last week, I spoke to two passengerswho opted out of the Automatic Gratuities. They said they were only going to tip the wait staff in the MD. I tried to explain that they are only servedby them once a day. That is why the tipsare shared with other staff members. Both said they didn’t like the way the tips were shared, even thoughthey didn’t know exactly how they were shared. One said it was Communism. Theother said no one on the staff ever served her in the buffet or on deck. Several days before, she told my DW how richshe was. :o

The usual excuses! Likely they NEVER tipped anyone. People like that should just plain stay home!

[keithm]

what would you think if some of you automatic gratuities was going to fund the senior officers retirement???

 

maybe that was the reason for the non-answer...:(

I would hope you can provide proof that is actually the case.

[caber]

I have been away from this site for about 18 months and the same old tipping debate is going on. At least with this one nobody is being really rude about it all. Well done. I think they should just include it in the price and then pay the staff a decent wage. The tipping puts many people off cruising these days. Not all the world has the same tipping culture as in the USA and find the cost excessive. Including it would solve the problem then they know exactly what they are paying before they board. I am elite and booked with many travel agents. Very few of them mention the tips when taking your booking in Britain. You have to read about it yourselves after booking, not the fault of Princess of course.

[moki'smommy]

I've ultimately come to the conclusion that I'll never understand how Princess determines what the tip charge should be or who is covered with the tips.

 

I've argued on another line (where the suggested tips are $12 per day regardless of level booked) that suite tips should be higher as there is significantly more work for the room hosts on that line. A one bedroom suite has 2 bathrooms and a totally separate bedroom and living room area. Our suite on the Caribbean Princess was essentially a big room--one bathroom with shower. So the host was basically vacuuming more floor space. That's a lot different than cleaning a second bathroom and in some suites a kitchenette and dining room!

 

But again, if I were paying more tips based on being in a suite, I'd expect that increase to go to the person maintaining my room, not being divided among staff on another ship.

 

Bottom line for me--I'll pay Princess automatic tips because it seems like the right thing to do. But understanding it? No way.

[voljeep]

never been in a suite, but don't the stewards have less cabins to maintain??

[moki'smommy]

never been in a suite, but don't the stewards have less cabins to maintain??

I don't know. But then, I don't know what a normal load (normal number of cabins) is for them. Our steward had the 8 window suites in our hall. I don't know if he had other duties elsewhere or not.

[Thrak]

never been in a suite, but don't the stewards have less cabins to maintain??

 

There was a recent thread where someone said they asked the suite steward and apparently they didn't have fewer cabins to maintain. It was something like 14 or 18 cabins. The stewards definitely get a workout.

[geoherb]

You are correct is used to be that way on Holland then they stopped it to make fares look lower . When we travel on land in Europe the tip is on the bill

Holland America's "no tipping required" policy emphasized that tipping was a personal decision. The majority of passengers still tipped before the introduction of "As You Wish" dining in the early 2000s.

[Host CJSKIDS]

There was a recent thread where someone said they asked the suite steward and apparently they didn't have fewer cabins to maintain. It was something like 14 or 18 cabins. The stewards definitely get a workout.

 

I wonder if they made a change. Last time we asked, we were told they had less staterooms.

[Host CJSKIDS]

I've ultimately come to the conclusion that I'll never understand how Princess determines what the tip charge should be or who is covered with the tips.

 

I've argued on another line (where the suggested tips are $12 per day regardless of level booked) that suite tips should be higher as there is significantly more work for the room hosts on that line. A one bedroom suite has 2 bathrooms and a totally separate bedroom and living room area. Our suite on the Caribbean Princess was essentially a big room--one bathroom with shower. So the host was basically vacuuming more floor space. That's a lot different than cleaning a second bathroom and in some suites a kitchenette and dining room!

 

But again' date=' if I were paying more tips based on being in a suite, I'd expect that increase to go to the person maintaining my room, not being divided among staff on another ship.

 

Bottom line for me--I'll pay Princess automatic tips because it seems like the right thing to do. But understanding it? No way.[/quote']

 

I think the window suites are a different layout than the other suites. There are two separate bathrooms in the suites, though they have a door between them. The larger side has a large shower, large sink area and a large whirlpool tub and the room attached has a toilet and a sink area.

There is also a living room and the attached bedroom. Its basically the size of 2 staterooms. Our one suite had a dining room table in the living room side. Sofa and two chairs with a coffe table.

[OCruisers]

We love the auto gratuities! :hearteyes::hearteyes:

Makes sure everyone who should be tipped gets tipped.

We also give attitional tips (cash) to those whe have been helpful to us. :)

[moki'smommy]

I think the window suites are a different layout than the other suites. There are two separate bathrooms in the suites, though they have a door between them. The larger side has a large shower, large sink area and a large whirlpool tub and the room attached has a toilet and a sink area.

There is also a living room and the attached bedroom. Its basically the size of 2 staterooms. Our one suite had a dining room table in the living room side. Sofa and two chairs with a coffe table.

This doesn't surprise me....but again leads me to wonder about the tipping guidelines. I'm not complaining about the amount. I'm questioning how the amounts are determined. I can certainly see that the work involved in cleaning the suite you describe is significantly more than that of cleaning the HA window suite.--one shower, no tub, one sink, one toilet all in the same room and one "living area" with twin beds and a fold out couch. Don't get me wrong. We liked the window suite. It just wasn't what I've seen called a "suite" on other cruise lines and certainly did not require the cleaning and maintenance of those suites.

[RDC1]

what would you think if some of you automatic gratuities was going to fund the senior officers retirement???

 

maybe that was the reason for the non-answer...:(

 

I think not. It would violate the accounting/reporting rules, that allow the cruise line to be able to treat the receipt and payouts as tips.

 

Most likely the answer is because it is one of those topics that no matter how he answers someone is going to dislike and complain about it, coupled with the management of the system does not fall under his management area. If he had responded that the money goes into a pool that is distributed to employees in the system under a formula managed by corporate, including some shifting of fund between ships, he would have gotten a number of people responding what do you mean it doesn't all go to my stewards and waiters or some other response. Thus the best answer is the political answer and just avoid it.

[RDC1]

This doesn't surprise me....but again leads me to wonder about the tipping guidelines. I'm not complaining about the amount. I'm questioning how the amounts are determined. I can certainly see that the work involved in cleaning the suite you describe is significantly more than that of cleaning the HA window suite.--one shower' date=' no tub, one sink, one toilet all in the same room and one "living area" with twin beds and a fold out couch. Don't get me wrong. We liked the window suite. It just wasn't what I've seen called a "suite" on other cruise lines and certainly did not require the cleaning and maintenance of those suites.[/quote']

 

They have to determine them someway. Suites usually come with additional services/benefits (i.e. additional labor beyond just the steward). For example I think that some include free laundry. Put together a list of anything that a suite gets that a veranda doesn't and ask your self if the delivery of that benefit or service takes and additional labor.

 

If it was strictly cleaning effort there would need to be an additional fee for messy guests or those that generate a lot of additional work.

[voljeep]

so, Carnival/Princess does not have to report that as income??

 

wouldn't it be a wash if all 'gratuity income' was paid out to the 'employees'?

[RDC1]

so, Carnival/Princess does not have to report that as income??

 

wouldn't it be a wash if all 'gratuity income' was paid out to the 'employees'?

 

It would be a wash if they received it as income, and then paid it out as wages, as far as the cruise line is concerned. It would not be a wash to employees since the payout would be classified as wages and not tips, depending upon the their country of residence and their countries treatment of tips vs wages under their tax/retirement systems.

 

One negative impact to the cruise line would be that their net margin percentage would drop compared to their peers, since their revenue and expenses would both go up my the same amount making their ratio materially worse.

 

Of course if they did that then they could make the fees a mandatory service charge and not be an optional gratuity, since they would no longer get any benefit from the accounting rules dealing with tips.

[voljeep]

so...now it 'off the books' for both Carnival and their 'employees' as just a pass-through?

[neverbeenhere]

Cruise line employees as well as all other citizens are responsible for reporting their income under the laws of their home country. See your home country’s tax laws for how to handle your situation prior to signing your contract with the cruise line.

[bobby3334]

On the cruise I just got off of And presuming they actually receive them from the company 56 sets of laws would be involved

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[RDC1]

so...now it 'off the books' for both Carnival and their 'employees' as just a pass-through?

 

To some degree yes. According to US accounting law, tips distributed fully to employees are neither income nor expense to the corporation as long as they meet the accounting rules for doing so (must be optional, must be fully distributed to employees, etc.). Basically they pass outside of the accounting system as far as income and expense is concerned. However, they are still subject to audit and financial reporting. The company must maintain an sufficient accounting system to demonstrate that they are in compliance with the laws.. This means that they must track both the receipts and the distribution. So they are not off the books as far as an audited tracking system.

 

The employees themselves are responsible for paying their taxes based upon the laws of their country. In some cases tips are considered to be income and taxed the same as wages, in other countries they are treated differently. The biggest difference in treatment is often related to retirement systems. In some countries the employees pay a percentage of both wages and tips into the national retirement systems, in other countries such contributions are not required for tips.

[NSWP]

I don't know. But then' date=' I don't know what a normal load (normal number of cabins) is for them. Our steward had the 8 window suites in our hall. I don't know if he had other duties elsewhere or not.[/quote']

 

On Princess the cabin stewards generally have about 18 cabins to service, not sure of the breakdown, i.e. insides, oceanview, mini suites, full suites.:rolleyes:

[Host CJSKIDS]

This doesn't surprise me....but again leads me to wonder about the tipping guidelines. I'm not complaining about the amount. I'm questioning how the amounts are determined. I can certainly see that the work involved in cleaning the suite you describe is significantly more than that of cleaning the HA window suite.--one shower' date=' no tub, one sink, one toilet all in the same room and one "living area" with twin beds and a fold out couch. Don't get me wrong. We liked the window suite. It just wasn't what I've seen called a "suite" on other cruise lines and certainly did not require the cleaning and maintenance of those suites.[/quote']

 

Well if you can figure it out, please let me know!!!!

[donaldsc]

Here we go again.

 

DON

[satxdiver]

I consider the automatic gratuity as part of the cost of the cruise and would never even consider removing it. It amazes me of the pax who spend thousands for a cruise and then refuse to pay the automatic gratuity for some indefensible reason. To me it comes down to being selfish and there is way too much of that in the world today. The crew works hard to make our cruise a success and not just the waiters in the MDR or HC but the ones we cannot see that work hard for us.

 

I do wish the cruise lines would include the tip into the cost of the cruise and make it so it cannot be canceled. I like how they do it in Europe and pay a decent wage so no tip is needed or wanted.

[NSWP]

Here we go again.

 

DON

 

Break out the popcorn, its going to be a full length movie.:cool::rolleyes: