After reading this article do you think "kicked off" are the right words to use?

[Hflors]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/elderly-couple-kicked-off-cruise-ship-for-lack-of-necessary-visas/ar-BBQfj35?ocid=spartandhp

 

I don't know what else HAL could have done?   Afterall the passengers are RESPONSIBLE for the proper paperwork to travel.  I am surprised that were allowed to board in the first place and I think it was nice of HAL to refund some of their money.   Sometimes the news media really go "overboard" in their reporting.

Edited December 1, 2018 by Hflors

[boulders]

It sounds like onboard personnel tried to get emergency visas for the couple in the 3 days they were onboard. Once they found that they couldn't, they had no choice but to kick them off the ship. HAL has probably learned a lesson too - no boarding without the proper visa. 

[Essiesmom]

No sympathy here.  Read the fine print.  I'm just confused as to why they had to get off in Korea, because the next port was back in Japan before calling at a Chinese port.  And being put off was no surprise, as they would have been told at boarding that it was a possibility/probability.  EM

[catl331]

I wonder if there were ports after China where they could have re-boarded?

 

[wyobean]

Totally agree that the media tries to make things sound as bad as they can. It isn’t even fine print or hidden. It is very obvious in the paperwork you receive. We also have our TA telling us. 

Edited December 1, 2018 by wyobean

[AmazedByCruising]

I wonder if you actually "enter" a country if you stay on the ship, as HAL seems to have tried to negotiate.  

 

When in St Petersburg, there were lines to enter the country, but only after you debarked. 

 

Would that mean that all crew members would need a visum as well? 

Edited December 1, 2018 by AmazedByCruising
sp

[catl331]

3 minutes ago, AmazedByCruising said:

I wonder if you acutally "enter" a country if you stay on the ship,

I think you enter a country as soon as you cross the 12-mile territorial waters limit.

[AmazedByCruising]

3 minutes ago, catl331 said:

I think you enter a country as soon as you cross the 12-mile territorial waters limit.

 

It seems so, but I thought it would be seen as being "in transit" on an airport.

[kazu]

13 minutes ago, AmazedByCruising said:

I wonder if you actually "enter" a country if you stay on the ship, as HAL seems to have tried to negotiate.  

 

When in St Petersburg, there were lines to enter the country, but only after you debarked. 

 

Would that mean that all crew members would need a visum as well? 

 

St. Petersburg is an exception.  If you don't get off the ship you don't need to have a visa. And,  you don't need one if you are on a private tour where the guide arranges it or on HAL shore excursions.

 

But many countries require you have a visa whether you are getting off the ship or not.  For example, going to Brazil, you must have a Brazilian visa whether you are getting off or not.  No Visa, no boarding permitted.  

[Cruiserbarbie]

Maybe it was their first trip EVER out of the state where they live or US?  At 71 and 74 and described as "elderly" (which is the same as me and my hubby-ouch!) maybe they are really older than their age. Maybe they checked about Japan and SK and skipped China? What about shore excursions? Were they just going to wander around the port, so either TA, HAL shore excursion group should have mentioned visas. HAL demographics are older than some cruise lines, so maybe they need to send a checklist to ensure their elderly pax are compliant--passport check, visas check!

[DaveOKC]

Perhaps HAL could be more clear on which countries require Visas.  I have received the generic "visas may be required on this sailing" and when I tired looking into it on the HAL website I could not find clear information (maybe it is just me).

[thinfool]

8 minutes ago, Cruiserbarbie said:

. HAL demographics are older than some cruise lines, so maybe they need to send a checklist to ensure their elderly pax are compliant--passport check, visas check!

As a general statement, HAL 'old timers' have sailed more, seen more, visited more plac es,  all of which require various types of entry documents than most cruisers will ever see in their lifetime.

The couple in the news had what they needed (from HAL) to obtain the correct documents. 

In addition the article does not say there was a TA involved.  Indeed, involving a TA would have greatly increased the likelihood that the correct docs would have been present.  So much for folks who want 'control' over their booking.

[puppycanducruise]

I'm surprised they were allowed to board without the visa.

Good reminder for all of us to make sure we have the correct documentation.

[ski ww]

We were on a circum navigation of South America a few years back & visa's were required for a couple of countries. A lot of people did not have them & were not allowed to board the ship in Florida. One couple flew all the way back to Australia, there were a lot of very mad & unhappy people. The cruise company hired a bus & a group of people went to Miami to the get their visa's and met the ship in Puerto Rico, all at their own expense. It pays to make sure you have the right paper work or ruin a trip of a life time.  

[Fouremco]

19 minutes ago, DaveOKC said:

Perhaps HAL could be more clear on which countries require Visas.  I have received the generic "visas may be required on this sailing" and when I tired looking into it on the HAL website I could not find clear information (maybe it is just me).

Part of the problem is that HAL's passengers come from around the globe, and the visa requirements not only differ but change quite frequently. With 195 countries setting entry requirements for the citizens of the other 194 countries, I think that it is unrealistic for HAL to know, let alone publish all possible requirements. IMO, it's better for HAL to state that a visa might be required but place the onus on the passengers to make the necessary determination for their specific case. 

[Krazy Kruizers]

If they used a TA, the TA should also have told them what Visas they needed besides their reading the fine print.

 

Lots of mistakes here.  HAL should never have let them on the ship without those Visas.

[chengkp75]

4 hours ago, Essiesmom said:

No sympathy here.  Read the fine print.  I'm just confused as to why they had to get off in Korea, because the next port was back in Japan before calling at a Chinese port.  And being put off was no surprise, as they would have been told at boarding that it was a possibility/probability.  EM

The reason is that Japan has cabotage laws similar to the US's PVSA, in that foreign flag ships cannot transport passengers between Japanese ports, so this would have violated their cabotage laws.

4 hours ago, AmazedByCruising said:

I wonder if you actually "enter" a country if you stay on the ship, as HAL seems to have tried to negotiate.  

 

When in St Petersburg, there were lines to enter the country, but only after you debarked. 

 

Would that mean that all crew members would need a visum as well? 

You "enter" the country when the ship clears their passenger and crew manifests with customs and immigration.  You "leave" the country when the officials clear the departure manifests.  What HAL was trying to do was to get permission for these people to "enter" China, but be restrained to the ship, since they didn't have the correct visa.  In nearly all countries, crew do not need visas for a simple port call, but they need a merchant mariner's document to visit in the port without the visa.  Some countries do require crew visas, and most require a crew visa for crew that join or leave the ship in that country.  For instance, the US requires all non-US crew on ships that call on US ports to have a D1 visa, and if they are joining or leaving the ship in the US, they need a C1/D visa.

[Stratheden]

1 hour ago, DaveOKC said:

Perhaps HAL could be more clear on which countries require Visas.  I have received the generic "visas may be required on this sailing" and when I tired looking into it on the HAL website I could not find clear information (maybe it is just me).

I don't think HAL should have more than generic info about Visa requirements on their website. 

It would be an enormous job to try to cover the requirements of all countries and also to also cover the requirements of all passengers for all countries.  

I haven't checked but they should direct passengers to check the requirements of the countries they are visiting in relation to each of our home countries. 

[Charles4515]

2 hours ago, puppycanducruise said:

I'm surprised they were allowed to board without the visa.

Good reminder for all of us to make sure we have the correct documentation.

 

That is what I don't understand. Seems that they should not have been allowed to board.

[POA1]

Who writes this stuff? The passengers were kicked off, yet only "reportedly" did not have the visas. Where are the layers of editors and fact checkers? Couldn't someone have tried to verify the visa requirements and whether or not the people had them?

[AmazedByCruising]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

You "enter" the country when the ship clears their passenger and crew manifests with customs and immigration.  You "leave" the country when the officials clear the departure manifests.  What HAL was trying to do was to get permission for these people to "enter" China, but be restrained to the ship, since they didn't have the correct visa.  In nearly all countries, crew do not need visas for a simple port call, but they need a merchant mariner's document to visit in the port without the visa.  Some countries do require crew visas, and most require a crew visa for crew that join or leave the ship in that country.  For instance, the US requires all non-US crew on ships that call on US ports to have a D1 visa, and if they are joining or leaving the ship in the US, they need a C1/D visa.

 

I was thinking that a Dutch flagged ship would be in Dutch jurisdiction even in a port in China. That China shouldn't care or even look at the "inner workings of the ship" when a ship houses guests that wouldn't even touch a street in China. How are Americans, or crew, without proper visa possibly a danger to the port? 

 

Same for US ports of course.

[boards]

Before our last cruise to Australia we received a bulletin from Hal advising us we needed a visa to enter Australia and that they were available for purchase on board.

[Copper10-8]

#1 It is the responsibility of the traveler and/or his/her travel agent, and not the cruise line, to figure out if visas are needed for the countries, you, as the traveler, will be visiting! Time to take some responsibility for your actions, or in this case, lack thereof!

 

Secondly, there would have been another option to get these visas taken care of and in hand prior to arrival in the PRC, and that would have been for the passenger and his wife to have paid a visit, at their own cost, to the consulate of the People's Republic of China in the Japanese city of Fukuoka. That would have been stop No. 4 on Westie's October 15th itinerary.

 

You get off the ship on arrival and take a cab to the consulate, making sure you have enough Japanese funds on you to pay for the processing of the visas. Upon arrival at the consulate, the entire process takes about 30-45 minutes, you get your (visa) stamps in your passport and you're done, outtahere and back to the ship and/or to enjoy Fukuoka. How do I know? I did it in October 2014 in Nagasaki, Japan, along with a group of eight others.

[kazu]

3 minutes ago, AmazedByCruising said:

 

I was thinking that a Dutch flagged ship would be in Dutch jurisdiction even in a port in China. That China shouldn't care or even look at the "inner workings of the ship" when a ship houses guests that wouldn't even touch a street in China. How are Americans, or crew, without proper visa possibly a danger to the port? 

 

Same for US ports of course.

 

Nope.  When you enter a country you enter a country no matter how your ship is flagged.  No different from any other travel.  You are in their waters and subject to their rules.  

 

chengpk75 who knows has explained it well.  

 

[Copper10-8]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

................................ Some countries do require crew visas, and most require a crew visa for crew that join or leave the ship in that country.  For instance, the US requires all non-US crew on ships that call on US ports to have a D1 visa, and if they are joining or leaving the ship in the US, they need a C1/D visa.

 

Australia comes to mind and they're strict about it! Plus, you have to get that bad boy prior to arriving in Oz. You can't get them "in country" so if you haven't done your homework upon your arrival in "Straya", you'll find yourself up that infamous creek da caca without that sorely needed paddle

Edited December 1, 2018 by Copper10-8