When Holland America was Holland America

[The Tsar]

 

As we are about to sail on the Maasdam in May, I am lamenting  how much the Holland America Line has changed, since we started cruising with HAL thirty five years ago.  I looked at the “Ocean Liner Directory” from our first cruise on the Nieuw Amsterdam MS.  HAL -  "…we have never lost sight of the spirit of the cruise experience  An experience whose meaning is romance as well as relaxation.”  Although we missed the Golden Age, the legendary era of the luxurious TransAtlantic crossing, of cruising, we have been able to enjoy a taste of what was during the twilight years with Holland America.

 

Unfortunately most changes have not been welcomed.

 

Here are just a few highlights from the Ocean Liner Directory/Cruise Information Booklet - 

 

Deck Games - Trap Shooting

Dress Aboard Ship - "...After 6:00PM, ladies usually wear dresses: men, jackets and tie.   On formal evenings, most men wear a tuxedo or dinner jacket: ladies, cocktail dresses or evening gowns."

Children - "Parents are kindly requested to maintain supervision of children ... During the evening hours, children are not permitted in some public lounges ...."

Shoe Shine Service - Simply leave your shoes with your Cabin Steward.

Tipping - Tipping not required ...we forbid any form of soliciting for tips.

Typewriters - Portable typewriters are available at the Front Office ....

Mail and Cables - Letters, packages, and cables will be delivered to your stateroom ....

 

IMHO - As stated most changes were/are not appreciated.  In someways it is hard to explain, if one has not experienced for themselves.  The entire atmosphere aboard ship(s) is totally different. Most is due to economics and change of culture and respect.

 

We have booked a Lanai Stateroom for the first time in hopes of recalling some of the joys of our first cruise.  We were in awe of the spacious teak promenade and as such spent most of our ship's time there.  We loved that deck so much that years later I acquired the original brass Forward Portside Directory plaque of the Upper Promenade Deck from the Nieuw Amsterdam.

 

Memories, memories of bygone days.  This maybe our last cruise with Holland America - Time to try another line, although I fear they all have gone this way.‼️

 

 

Unfortunately most change have not been welcomed.

Unfortunately most change have not been welcomed.

Unfortunately most change have not been welcomed.

 

— A few highlights listed in the Ocean Liner Directory/Cruise Information Booklet — 

 

Deck Games - trap shooting

 

Dress Aboard Ship - …”After 6:00PM, ladies usually wear dresses: men, jacket and tie.  On formal evenings, most men wear a tuxedo or dinner jacket: ladies, cocktail dresses or evening gowns.”

 

Children - “Parents are kindly requested to maintain supervision of children … During the evening hours, children are not permitted in some public lounges…."

Unfortunately most change have not been welcomed.

 

— A few highlights listed in the Ocean Liner Directory/Cruise Information Booklet — 

 

Deck Games - trap shooting

 

Dress Aboard Ship - …”After 6:00PM, ladies usually wear dresses: men, jacket and tie.  On formal evenings, most men wear a tuxedo or dinner jacket: ladies, cocktail dresses or evening gowns.”

 

Children - “Parents are kindly requested to maintain supervision of children … During the evening hours, children are not permitted in some public lounges…."

 

Unfortunately most change have not been welcomed.

 

— A few highlights listed in the Ocean Liner Directory/Cruise Information Booklet — 

 

Deck Games - trap shooting

 

Dress Aboard Ship - …”After 6:00PM, ladies usually wear dresses: men, jacket and tie.  On formal evenings, most men wear a tuxedo or dinner jacket: ladies, cocktail dresses or evening gowns.”

 

Children - “Parents are kindly requested to maintain supervision of children … During the evening hours, children are not permitted in some public lounges…."

 

Shoe Shine Service - Simply leave your shoes with your Cabin Steward.

 

Tipping - Tipping not required…we forbid any form of soliciting for tips.

 

Typewriters - Portable typewriters are available at the Front Office….

 

Mail and Cables - Letters, packages, and cables will be delivered to your stateroom….

 

IMHO - As stated most changes were/are not welcomed.  In someways hard to explain if one has not experienced for themselves.   The atmosphere aboard ship(s) is totally different.  Most is due to economics and change of culture and respect.

 

We have book a Lanai Stateroom for the first time in hopes of recalling the some of the joys of our first cruise.  We were in awe of the spacious teak promenade and as such spent most of our ship’s time there.  We loved that deck so much that years later I obtained the original Forward Portside Brass Directory plaque of Upper Promenade Deck from the Nieuw Amsterdam.

 

Memories, memories of bygone days.  This maybe our last cruise with Holland America - Time to try another line (Although I fear all have gone this way).

 

Unfortunately most change have not been welcomed.

 

— A few highlights listed in the Ocean Liner Directory/Cruise Information Booklet — 

 

Deck Games - trap shooting

 

Dress Aboard Ship - …”After 6:00PM, ladies usually wear dresses: men, jacket and tie.  On formal evenings, most men wear a tuxedo or dinner jacket: ladies, cocktail dresses or evening gowns.”

 

Children - “Parents are kindly requested to maintain supervision of children … During the evening hours, children are not permitted in some public lounges…."

 

Shoe Shine Service - Simply leave your shoes with your Cabin Steward.

 

Tipping - Tipping not required…we forbid any form of soliciting for tips.

 

Typewriters - Portable typewriters are available at the Front Office….

 

Mail and Cables - Letters, packages, and cables will be delivered to your stateroom….

 

IMHO - As stated most changes were/are not welcomed.  In someways hard to explain if one has not experienced for themselves.   The atmosphere aboard ship(s) is totally different.  Most is due to economics and change of culture and respect.

 

We have book a Lanai Stateroom for the first time in hopes of recalling the some of the joys of our first cruise.  We were in awe of the spacious teak promenade and as such spent most of our ship’s time there.  We loved that deck so much that years later I obtained the original Forward Portside Brass Directory plaque of Upper Promenade Deck from the Nieuw Amsterdam.

 

Memories, memories of bygone days.  This maybe our last cruise with Holland America - Time to try another line (Although I fear all have gone this way).

 

[3rdGenCunarder]

Don't go into this cruise lamenting how things have changed. I'm trying to think back to what "everyday life" was like 35 years ago, and that was quite different from now, too.

 

Maasdam is a great ship, doing interesting itineraries, probably to some places that didn't take cruise ships 35 years ago. So think about the opportunities that change has brought. And you'll have your reserved deck chairs to sit in on the sea days for a bit of nostalgia. 

 

[*Miss G*]

Typewriters!

 

It sounds like you may enjoy Cunard but I do hope you enjoy your upcoming cruise on Maasdam.

[1of4]

Oh my goodness what hasn’t changed in 35 years.  I know I have! Just think about the airline industry and what flying was like 35 years ago!  But I’d take the cruise with a sense of wonder in how technological advancements over that time have both allowed me to still be alive and enjoy a vacation I couldn’t even dream about back then and now I can share it instantly with family.  Enjoy it looking foreword and not back.

[ski ww]

I remember trap shooting off the back of the Lido deck. Some changes are for the better & some are not, I think we have to change, you can't live in the past forever. Enjoy your cruise. 

[slidergirl]

Holland America is still Holland America,  just 35 years older.  I'm not sure that I'd want to be transported back by Marty McFly and the Doc 35 years!!  35 years ago, people still smoked everywhere, stinking up every room, chair, and everyone's clothes.  Trap shooting put lead shot into the water, poisoning aquatic life.  Golf balls where stuck off the deck - swallowed by aquatic life and killing them.  Ships polluted the oceans and seas with impunity.   I'm happy that at least these things have changed.   The rest, well, I'm glad you enjoyed yourself.  But, I don't think you'll find another ship or cruise line that will allow you to relive your early cruises.   Just like our lives, the cruise business has moved on.  Take what you find on your cruise as it is, don't compare it to "antiquity."   Enjoy!

Edited April 24, 2019 by slidergirl

[Sir PMP]

23 minutes ago, slidergirl said:

Holland America is still Holland America,  just 35 years older.  I'm not sure that I'd want to be transported back by Marty McFly and the Doc 35 years!!  35 years ago, people still smoked everywhere, stinking up every room, chair, and everyone's clothes.  Trap shooting put lead shot into the water, poisoning aquatic life.  Golf balls where stuck off the deck - swallowed by aquatic life and killing them.  Ships polluted the oceans and seas with impunity.   I'm happy that at least these things have changed.   The rest, well, I'm glad you enjoyed yourself.  But, I don't think you'll find another ship or cruise line that will allow you to relive your early cruises.   Just like our lives, the cruise business has moved on.  Take what you find on your cruise as it is, don't compare it to "antiquity."   Enjoy!

Yes, but the problem is that in the old days Hal was run by people who knew the cruise line industry, now we have a couple of knuckle heads running it with zero knowledge of the industry, just trying to save costs for their own benefits..

[slidergirl]

3 minutes ago, Sir PMP said:

Yes, but the problem is that in the old days Hal was run by people who knew the cruise line industry, now we have a couple of knuckle heads running it with zero knowledge of the industry, just trying to save costs for their own benefits..

Kind of like <name your own> government 😉

 

One of my best friends' father helped build Premier - aka The Big Red Boat" line.  So, I do know the kind of people who ran things "back in the day."   But, as these men and women have died off or retired, the Board of these lines had the choice of who to elect.  So, blame the Board.  Buy some stock.  Vote your conscience, like you do for <name your own government> elections.  

[Homosassa]

You haven't gone back far enough.  My husband's first cruise on HAL was a transAtlantic in 1954. 

 

He talks about there being first class, second class and cabin class cabins and decks and no admittance was allowed to someone out of their class.  Being an eight year old boy, he and some shipboard buddies did sneak up on the first class outdoor deck until caught by a deck steward and sent to their proper place.

[FredT]

Annnnnd  How much did you pay for your cruise on HAL all those years ago?   I would guess that you paid "almost" the same per day as you are paying now... (And the dollar is worth HOW much more?)  

 

I know it's the same as the airlines.   I have a ticket from New York to San Juan in 1960...   Three hundred dollars round trip.   The price today?  the same... BUT, the seats are narrower, the food non existent, the legroom all gone...  (Sound familiar?)

 

I am sure you "could" find all of those wonderful amenities on a cruise ship today, IF you are willing to pay what you did back then (Adjusted for inflation!) 

Edited April 24, 2019 by FredT

[Copper10-8]

The welcome aboard pic with the girl in traditional Volendam costume with the fake bouquet (not bucket, the lady of the house) of tulips 

 

[rkacruiser]

I started cruising in 1970 on Rotterdam V.  Is cruising today different than it was then?  Yes.  Is the cruising experience better or worse today?  Yes to both better and worse; but, my personal life has changed since 1970, both for the better and the worse.  Change is the one constant in the world and that can't be changed!

 

Cruise lines are much more cognizant of protecting our marine environment in 2019 than they were in 1970.  I witnessed bags of trash being thrown overboard from the Rotterdam's stern.  Doing away with skeet shooting and launching golf balls into the sea have been replaced by more friendly on-board activities.

 

1970:  You wanted a deck chair on an outside deck?  Surely, you could get one:   it would be reserved for you (there would be a name tag at the top of the chair) and you would have to pay to do so.

 

Dining service has changed from silver service to plated entrees.  Entertainment and music choices have changed, changed, and are changing again.  

 

For Holland America Line:  what is the most important item that has not changed since 1970?  The service and friendliness of the crew.  1970:  Dutch/European service personnel.  1971:  the transition between Dutch and Indonesian began (and I witnessed "tension" during this transition between the two nationalities), yet service was unaffected.  Now, the ships service staff are mostly Indonesian and Filipino, and increasingly I have noticed a sprinkling of other nationalities, i.e. Indian, a return to some Dutch crew, also some other Europeans, perhaps.  What has not changed is the friendly, personable service that speaks to me whenever I embark a HAL vessel:  Welcome Home!

 

 

[AncientWanderer]

I still get a wonderful feeling of being "at sea" on a HAL cruise.  Many of the competitors these days just seem like floating Las Vegas hotels -- no connection to seafaring traditions at all.  When I board a HAL ship, a very pleasant connection to the natural world begins.

[Sir PMP]

20 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

I started cruising in 1970 on Rotterdam V.  Is cruising today different than it was then?  Yes.  Is the cruising experience better or worse today?  Yes to both better and worse; but, my personal life has changed since 1970, both for the better and the worse.  Change is the one constant in the world and that can't be changed!

 

Cruise lines are much more cognizant of protecting our marine environment in 2019 than they were in 1970.  I witnessed bags of trash being thrown overboard from the Rotterdam's stern.  Doing away with skeet shooting and launching golf balls into the sea have been replaced by more friendly on-board activities.

 

1970:  You wanted a deck chair on an outside deck?  Surely, you could get one:   it would be reserved for you (there would be a name tag at the top of the chair) and you would have to pay to do so.

 

Dining service has changed from silver service to plated entrees.  Entertainment and music choices have changed, changed, and are changing again.  

 

For Holland America Line:  what is the most important item that has not changed since 1970?  The service and friendliness of the crew.  1970:  Dutch/European service personnel.  1971:  the transition between Dutch and Indonesian began (and I witnessed "tension" during this transition between the two nationalities), yet service was unaffected.  Now, the ships service staff are mostly Indonesian and Filipino, and increasingly I have noticed a sprinkling of other nationalities, i.e. Indian, a return to some Dutch crew, also some other Europeans, perhaps.  What has not changed is the friendly, personable service that speaks to me whenever I embark a HAL vessel:  Welcome Home!

 

 

'Cruise lines are much more cognizant of protecting our marine environment in 2019 than they were in 1970.'

Oh, that's why Carnival is under a 5 year probation(and violated again after 2 years) for dumping grey water in Glacier Bay and oil grease in the Caribbean sea....

[Copper10-8]

24 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

....................................

 

For Holland America Line:  what is the most important item that has not changed since 1970?  The service and friendliness of the crew.  1970:  Dutch/European service personnel.  1971:  the transition between Dutch and Indonesian began (and I witnessed "tension" during this transition between the two nationalities), yet service was unaffected.  Now, the ships service staff are mostly Indonesian and Filipino, and increasingly I have noticed a sprinkling of other nationalities, i.e. Indian, a return to some Dutch crew, also some other Europeans, perhaps.  What has not changed is the friendly, personable service that speaks to me whenever I embark a HAL vessel:  Welcome Home!

 

 

 

You'd be surprised as to how many nationalities, and from what countries, current HAL crews consist of. The largest group, by far, are still the Indonesians (Housekeeping, Restaurant, Nautical/sailors, boatmen and quartermasters, Technical/engine room), followed by the Filipinos (Beverage, Galley, Guest Services, Security, Technical/engine room) Third are probably the Indians (Galley, Security) with the Dutch (Nautical/Bridge, Technical/engine room, Guest Services, Administration) close behind or just ahead. Then, you have the South Africans (Medical, Art Gallery), followed by up to 40-45 other nationalities

Edited April 24, 2019 by Copper10-8

[slidergirl]

3 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

You'd be surprised as to how many nationalities, and from what countries, current HAL crews consists of. The largest group, by far, are still the Indonesians (Housekeeping, Restaurant, Nautical/sailors, boatmen and quartermasters, Technical/engine room), followed by the Filipinos (Beverage, Galley, Guest Services, Security, Technical/engine room) Third are probably the Indians (Galley, Security) with the Dutch (Nautical/Bridge, Technical/engine room, Guest Services, Administration) close behind or just ahead. Then, you have the South Africans (Medical, Art Gallery), followed by up to 40-45 other nationalities

I remember my once cruise on Princess have a large contingent of young people from Eastern European countries.  Usually in positions where they may have to speak to guests (serving, buffet, Guest Services, etc.).    I was always curious when that changed?  I know the seasonal workers where I am consist of Filipinos, Jamaicans and still those from Eastern European countries.  

[AmazedByCruising]

34 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

1971:  the transition between Dutch and Indonesian began (and I witnessed "tension" during this transition between the two nationalities), yet service was unaffected. 

 

There's a documentary (in Dutch) about that transition. One snippet, the Dutch crew got the news from a newspaper, got angry after working decades for HAL and decided to throw stuff overboard, including a piano. https://www.anderetijden.nl/programma/1/Andere-Tijden/aflevering/754/Klassenverschil-op-de-Holland-Amerika-Lijn 

[CruiserBruce]

If all this change is so horrendous, disgusting and a disgrace, why are so many, many more people cruising today?

[Copper10-8]

1 minute ago, slidergirl said:

I remember my once cruise on Princess have a large contingent of young people from Eastern European countries.  Usually in positions where they may have to speak to guests (serving, buffet, Guest Services, etc.).    I was always curious when that changed?  I know the seasonal workers where I am consist of Filipinos, Jamaicans and still those from Eastern European countries.  

 

Can't speak for Princess because I haven't sailed them for a while. HAL has had, and still has, Eastern European crew of which there was a big influx in the early and mid-nineties after the "Iron Curtain" came down. At the time, they started working on HAL, a lot of them (Hungarians, Romanians) wound up in the Pinnacle Grills, That has sorta, kinda changed, with the Indonesians taking over those spots. You don't see many of them with HAL in Guest Services, mostly in Beverage (cellar masters, etc.), in entertainment (Adagio/musicians, etc.), in the shops, and I worked with a Bulgarian Bosun, which was a first for HAL where they are for the most part, Indonesian

[rkacruiser]

1 hour ago, AmazedByCruising said:

 

There's a documentary (in Dutch) about that transition. One snippet, the Dutch crew got the news from a newspaper, got angry after working decades for HAL and decided to throw stuff overboard, including a piano. https://www.anderetijden.nl/programma/1/Andere-Tijden/aflevering/754/Klassenverschil-op-de-Holland-Amerika-Lijn 

 

July, 1971,  while standing on a deck overlooking the bow of Rotterdam V when we were sailing from a Caribbean port, a group of crew were congregating forward of the area where the controls were located to control the capstans.  The crew were of mixed nationality.  Loud voices were heard from them.  I turned to look towards the Bridge and Captain Lagaay was standing front and center at the Bridge windows.  Very shortly, an Officer appeared on this forward deck and cleared it of the crew.  To be honest with this post and my previous comment, this was the only negative reaction that I witnessed in 1971 during the transition.  The service/friendliness that my family received in 1971 was as good as in 1970 as well as it has been in the years since.

[Copper10-8]

1 hour ago, rkacruiser said:

 

July, 1971,  while standing on a deck overlooking the bow of Rotterdam V when we were sailing from a Caribbean port, a group of crew were congregating forward of the area where the controls were located to control the capstans.  The crew were of mixed nationality.  Loud voices were heard from them.  I turned to look towards the Bridge and Captain Lagaay was standing front and center at the Bridge windows.  Very shortly, an Officer appeared on this forward deck and cleared it of the crew.  To be honest with this post and my previous comment, this was the only negative reaction that I witnessed in 1971 during the transition.  The service/friendliness that my family received in 1971 was as good as in 1970 as well as it has been in the years since.

 

Captain Anthonie Lagaay 

 

[ger_77]

Some things change with the times, but you can still get your shoes shined.  Locate the basket in the closet of your cabin and put your shoes in it, leaving them out for your cabin steward, and they'll be returned to you beautifully polished and shined.

 

Smooth Sailing! 🙂 🙂🙂

[whogo]

19 hours ago, The Tsar said:

IMHO - As stated most changes were/are not appreciated.  In someways it is hard to explain, if one has not experienced for themselves.  The entire atmosphere aboard ship(s) is totally different. Most is due to economics and change of culture and respect.

 

We have booked a Lanai Stateroom for the first time in hopes of recalling some of the joys of our first cruise.  

Complaints about the changes seem odd from someone who has booked a lanai cabin. Did Holland America even have balcony cabins back in the good old days of 1984?

 

I think that most of the changes are appreciated, mostly due to the change in culture that you mention. I like to dine without smelling cigarette smoke, prefer open seating, like to access my cabin upon embarkation and like staying in my cabin until disembarkation. I prefer the hotel service charge, never liked distributing envelopes.

 

If you want to relive the good old days, take in a baseball game on a hot day wearing a coat, tie, and hat (not cap) while your wife wears gloves, stockings, and a girdle.

 

[3rdGenCunarder]

My first cruises were on HAL in the late 70s and early 80s. I sailed on Statendam and Volendam and they did not have balconies. It was a good long time after those first cruises that I had a balcony cabin. (QE2 had them back then but they were out of my price range)

 

When there were no balconies, everyone was out and about, and the atmosphere was more social. Now, with balconies and so many people spending their time with their electronic devices instead of people, the atmosphere is definitely less friendly, and this is something I do not see as a change for the better. On the old ships, there was plenty of deck space and loungers for the number of passengers. (I don't recall HAL doing reserved chairs, but I could be wrong about that) Now, as ships have so many more decks of cabins, but proportionately less deck space and fewer loungers, we have the culture of chair hogs. 

 

I remember seeing people hit golf balls and shoot skeet off the back of the ship. And I remember the trash being tossed overboard. It's odd, but I don't remember smoke at dinner--and I hate the smell of smoke. Were there no-smoking sections of the dining room? Or maybe it's just that smoking was EVERYWHERE back then and it's less common now--and there are fewer places to smoke. All of the changes in how ships polluted is certainly a big improvement. 

[cruisemom42]

2 hours ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

When there were no balconies, everyone was out and about, and the atmosphere was more social. Now, with balconies and so many people spending their time with their electronic devices instead of people, the atmosphere is definitely less friendly, and this is something I do not see as a change for the better. On the old ships, there was plenty of deck space and loungers for the number of passengers. (I don't recall HAL doing reserved chairs, but I could be wrong about that) Now, as ships have so many more decks of cabins, but proportionately less deck space and fewer loungers, we have the culture of chair hogs. 

 

 

Interesting you should say this. I've long thought that larger ships and more balcony cabins have mostly contributed to the less sociable feeling onboard cruises. 

 

As one who generally books an inside cabin and spends most of my "awake" time (when not in port) in public spaces, I am perhaps more acutely aware of how that space is both shrinking and less utilized than in the past. It's a shame... at least to me it is.