Beware of the MSC Upgrade bid program

[sverigecruiser]

6 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

Personally, I don't see anyone losing in this scenario, but I know those in category 1 seem to think that they do.

 

If the prices are raised a lot for those who want a specific cabin, aren't they losing?

 

I pay more and someone else are bidding and pay less. For me I'm defenitely losing with that scenario.

[DCGuy64]

8 minutes ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

If the prices are raised a lot for those who want a specific cabin, aren't they losing?

 

I pay more and someone else are bidding and pay less. For me I'm defenitely losing with that scenario.

Your choices, it would seem, are to pay higher prices or join the bidding war, I imagine. Also you can price out the cruises way in advance. I know when I’ve looked online there are many cruises for the same ship at different times and at different prices. Just pick the one that has the price you like. If MSC does keep doing the upgrade offers, I wonder if that will affect available inventory, even way in advance. Since the bidding doesn’t start until 45 days to sail date, will they hold a number of cabins for the express purpose of bidding them later? I don’t know, I wonder if an NCL veteran could chime in on that point. 

[sverigecruiser]

1 hour ago, DCGuy64 said:

Your choices, it would seem, are to pay higher prices or join the bidding war, I imagine.

 

Since I know what cabin I want my only choice is to pay the higher price so I'm the loser.

 

The alternative is, of course, not to accept the higher price and don't  cruise.  

[sverigecruiser]

1 hour ago, DCGuy64 said:

Also you can price out the cruises way in advance. I know when I’ve looked online there are many cruises for the same ship at different times and at different prices. Just pick the one that has the price you like.

 

If the prices on all cruises are raised because of the bidding system I will be the loser no matter which cruise I pick. (I say if because I don't know for sure if that's what happened on NCL.)

[DCGuy64]

6 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

Since I know what cabin I want my only choice is to pay the higher price so I'm the loser.

 

The alternative is, of course, not to accept the higher price and don't  cruise.  

You do have the option of staying in a different type of cabin if the price is important to you. Otherwise, if you’re dead set on just one cabin type and location, you’re going to pay a premium for that. That’s life. 

[TrinaLC]

8 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

If the prices are raised a lot for those who want a specific cabin, aren't they losing?

 

I pay more and someone else are bidding and pay less. For me I'm defenitely losing with that scenario.

 

 

Ditto. That is why we stopped sailing NCL. We only want the Haven, but will not pay the ridiculous rack rate nor book a lower class with the hope of winning a bid.  Add to that we never sail without picking our specific cabin having had some unfortunate guarantee assignments.  

 

If if this becomes the YC experience we will bite the bullet and go luxury e.g. seabourn. 

[sverigecruiser]

23 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

You do have the option of staying in a different type of cabin if the price is important to you. Otherwise, if you’re dead set on just one cabin type and location, you’re going to pay a premium for that. That’s life. 

 

The price is not really that important for economical reasons but if they raise the prices so that those who really wants to pick their cabin have to pay much more and those who are prepared to gamble can pay less I rather spend my money somewhere else. 

 

I understand MSC because their goal is to make as much money as possible but I don't have to like it. If I don't like it I spend my money somewhere else.

 

Not really a problem. I don't like it but it's not a problem. I'm sure that someone else will want my money!

 

[sverigecruiser]

58 minutes ago, TrinaLC said:

 

 

Ditto. That is why we stopped sailing NCL. We only want the Haven, but will not pay the ridiculous rack rate nor book a lower class with the hope of winning a bid.  Add to that we never sail without picking our specific cabin having had some unfortunate guarantee assignments.  

 

If if this becomes the YC experience we will bite the bullet and go luxury e.g. seabourn. 

 

I have done some research on Seabourn but I still haven't found anything interesting enough but if MSC goes the same way as NCL I might do more research before I decide not to cruise anymore.

 

The question is, does Seabourn give me enough value for my money? I have researched prices for MSC Meraviglia for summer 2021 and the prices on Yacht Club Deluxe Suites are around $5300, for two with 5% off. The price for the July 25 cruise 2020 in a Veranda Suite on Seabourn Encore is around $9000. I can pay it but do I want to? Is it really worth that more? I don't know.

 

I know that Seabourn have "Air credit" on "select sailings" but even if I include that it cost much more than MSC.

[Essiesmom]

 

CELEBRATING OUR 20 MILLIONTH GUEST

This weekend we reached a tremendous milestone welcoming our 20 millionth cruiser 
on board MSC Seaside. 
  
To honor our Guest and celebrate this exciting milestone, we upgraded his family to a luxurious 
MSC Yacht Club suite, offering an exclusive ship-within-a-ship experience with a private restaurant, 
pool and lounge as well as 24-hour butler and concierge service. 
  
And, to toast the occasion with all of the guests on board, MSC Seaside hosted a  
20 Millionth Guest Party in the ship’s atrium, the social hub of the ship. 
  
The celebration was bubbling with complimentary champagne for all guests, a special officer’s parade, 
an artisan cake and a special performance from one of the ship’s most popular shows. 

 Even the Captain toasted the milestone and offered a congratulations and special gift 
for MSC Cruises’ 20 millionth cruiser.

 

For further information read the press realese

 

 

 

I'm presuming these folks got all the perks...

EM

[Rou-Dyliq]

6 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

The question is, does Seabourn give me enough value for my money? I have researched prices for MSC Meraviglia for summer 2021 and the prices on Yacht Club Deluxe Suites are around $5300, for two with 5% off. The price for the July 25 cruise 2020 in a Veranda Suite on Seabourn Encore is around $9000. I can pay it but do I want to? Is it really worth that more? I don't know.

 

See that's the thing.  I'm not reckless with my money and I refuse to go above my listed budget for vacations.  If this goes the way it's looking I'm just going to have to figure out a different way to vacation to get the level of relaxation, service and comfort  I'm looking for, or look for good bargains on the luxury lines. 

 

For all of you saying this is a fair and open market transaction, you need to read up on the psychology behind auctions and especially silent auctions where an inflated "retail value" is placed on an item.  Many people will bid more than they initially are willing to in order to obtain what they perceive to be a bargain (more than what they would pay for it if it were a traditional transaction), and you should never discount the appeal of winning something.  Cruise lines, charities and ebay know this well and don't think for one second they don't employ this to their advantage.  I do not gamble, I want to know what I'm purchasing and I am not willing to play this game that turns the entire process of cruising into a silent auction.  I still think we have to see how this plays out for MSC, but if this turns out how it's looking I'm out.  I think MSC knows what they are doing here and this will drive people like me onto their small luxury ships that are due out in a few years but I think by then they will find a lot of us have moved on to other luxury lines or doing land vacations.  I have a limit on how much I spend on a vacation - we are not wealthy - and I am not going to spend above it for the luxury of subsidizing other low bids. 

[DCGuy64]

7 minutes ago, Rou-Dyliq said:

 

See that's the thing.  I'm not reckless with my money and I refuse to go above my listed budget for vacations.  If this goes the way it's looking I'm just going to have to figure out a different way to vacation to get the level of relaxation, service and comfort  I'm looking for, or look for good bargains on the luxury lines. 

 

For all of you saying this is a fair and open market transaction, you need to read up on the psychology behind auctions and especially silent auctions where an inflated "retail value" is placed on an item.  Many people will bid more than they initially are willing to in order to obtain what they perceive to be a bargain (more than what they would pay for it if it were a traditional transaction), and you should never discount the appeal of winning something.  Cruise lines, charities and ebay know this well and don't think for one second they don't employ this to their advantage.  I do not gamble, I want to know what I'm purchasing and I am not willing to play this game that turns the entire process of cruising into a silent auction.  I still think we have to see how this plays out for MSC, but if this turns out how it's looking I'm out.  I think MSC knows what they are doing here and this will drive people like me onto their small luxury ships that are due out in a few years but I think by then they will find a lot of us have moved on to other luxury lines or doing land vacations.  I have a limit on how much I spend on a vacation - we are not wealthy - and I am not going to spend above it for the luxury of subsidizing other low bids. 

I get that, but there's something called the subjective value theory, that is, the value of an object, service, product, or good is only what a person will pay for it. Occasionally, there will be situations in which someone who is used to something costing one price, will object to it changing in price. But that's just how it goes. I was pretty steamed when the government called off cruises to Cuba since we'd booked one (our first to Cuba), but now we're going on a different cruise in the Yacht Club instead of a balcony. Sometimes things end up turning out better than we first thought. Same could apply if MSC's upgrade scheme alienates passengers. They might end up finding better deals on land vacations or rival cruise lines that they wouldn't have but for MSC's change in pricing. And at the same time, a whole new segment of the public would be able to experience MSC at a price that would be out of their reach if not for the bidding program. 

[sverigecruiser]

25 minutes ago, Rou-Dyliq said:

 

For all of you saying this is a fair and open market transaction, you need to read up on the psychology behind auctions and especially silent auctions where an inflated "retail value" is placed on an item.

 

The inflated retail value is the problem for me on NCL. So I really hope that is not what will happen on MSC. The retail value isn't inflated if all cabins are sold but if they have cabins left for people to bid on it is.

[Rou-Dyliq]

I agree sverigecruiser.  At this point, the prices don't seem to be climbing to the stratosphere at the rate NCL's did and so far I am still OK with things.  I've been comparing 2020 cruises for our 20th anniversary to a potential extended land vacation in Portugal (which to be honest I would prefer to do, but hubby loves loves loves to cruise) so I'm watching those prices like a hawk.  They're more than I paid per night for our first YC cruise on Seaside but not excessively so.  I expected prices to rise once they got a firmer footing in the US market and I think they have accomplished that. 

[sverigecruiser]

4 hours ago, Rou-Dyliq said:

I agree sverigecruiser.  At this point, the prices don't seem to be climbing to the stratosphere at the rate NCL's did and so far I am still OK with things.  I've been comparing 2020 cruises for our 20th anniversary to a potential extended land vacation in Portugal (which to be honest I would prefer to do, but hubby loves loves loves to cruise) so I'm watching those prices like a hawk.  They're more than I paid per night for our first YC cruise on Seaside but not excessively so.  I expected prices to rise once they got a firmer footing in the US market and I think they have accomplished that. 

 

I'm still OK with things too. The prices for 2021 are not much higher then they were for our first MSC cruise 2017.

[dexddd]

21 hours ago, Essiesmom said:

 

CELEBRATING OUR 20 MILLIONTH GUEST

This weekend we reached a tremendous milestone welcoming our 20 millionth cruiser 
on board MSC Seaside. 
  
To honor our Guest and celebrate this exciting milestone, we upgraded his family to a luxurious 
MSC Yacht Club suite, offering an exclusive ship-within-a-ship experience with a private restaurant, 
pool and lounge as well as 24-hour butler and concierge service. 
  
And, to toast the occasion with all of the guests on board, MSC Seaside hosted a  
20 Millionth Guest Party in the ship’s atrium, the social hub of the ship. 
  
The celebration was bubbling with complimentary champagne for all guests, a special officer’s parade, 
an artisan cake and a special performance from one of the ship’s most popular shows. 

 Even the Captain toasted the milestone and offered a congratulations and special gift 
for MSC Cruises’ 20 millionth cruiser.

 

For further information read the press realese

 

 

 

I'm presuming these folks got all the perks...

EM

Heck, they should have just faked the numbers and made me the one last week and save the upgrade.

[TrinaLC]

Proof that an upgrade to YC comes with the full experience!  🙂

[BermudaBound2014]

19 hours ago, Rou-Dyliq said:

For all of you saying this is a fair and open market transaction, you need to read up on the psychology behind auctions and especially silent auctions where an inflated "retail value" is placed on an item.  Many people will bid more than they initially are willing to in order to obtain what they perceive to be a bargain (more than what they would pay for it if it were a traditional transaction), and you should never discount the appeal of winning something.  

 

No doubt the cruise lines are banking on the psychology behind bidding and 'winning'. I suspect many cruisers will fall pray to this design. However; savoy cruisers will not be suckered into the game. Those travelers can benefit greatly if they are willing to gamble, but with gambling there is risk. The savings comes because certain travelers are willing to take a risk. Those travelers that do not want to incur risk pay more. It's really pretty simply supply/demand; however your point should be well noted. This ONLY works in favor of the passenger if the passenger keeps a level head in the bidding process. 

 

 

[JAGR]

1 hour ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

No doubt the cruise lines are banking on the psychology behind bidding and 'winning'. I suspect many cruisers will fall pray to this design. However; savoy cruisers will not be suckered into the game. Those travelers can benefit greatly if they are willing to gamble, but with gambling there is risk. The savings comes because certain travelers are willing to take a risk. Those travelers that do not want to incur risk pay more. It's really pretty simply supply/demand; however your point should be well noted. This ONLY works in favor of the passenger if the passenger keeps a level head in the bidding process. 

 

 

'Savoy' cruisers?  That region of France is a bit too inland for MSC to offer cruises!😉  I hope savvy cruisers aren't really going to 'pray' to this design!

 

Seriously, I think too much is being made about this.  My MSC cruises booked for 2020 and even 2021 show either no YC rooms or only two available.  Those who book a cabin type or class less than they want or are willing to stay in may very well be in for a rude awakening!

 

Upgrades happen all the time on all forms of transport.  I almost never find a first or business class seat next to me on  a flight vacant, even when the seat map shows it open right until boarding.  Cruise ships rarely sail with empty cabins.  The companies will fill seats and cabins to stretch income.  They are just moving what limited upgrades there are from free to revenue producing.  You are right about being sure to attach the right perceived value to your bid if you choose to play the game.  Caveat Emptor.  Or, caveat emptier!

[DCGuy64]

15 minutes ago, JAGR said:

'Savoy' cruisers?  That region of France is a bit too inland for MSC to offer cruises!😉  I hope savvy cruisers aren't really going to 'pray' to this design!

 

Seriously, I think too much is being made about this.  My MSC cruises booked for 2020 and even 2021 show either no YC rooms or only two available.  Those who book a cabin type or class less than they want or are willing to stay in may very well be in for a rude awakening!

 

Upgrades happen all the time on all forms of transport.  I almost never find a first or business class seat next to me on  a flight vacant, even when the seat map shows it open right until boarding.  Cruise ships rarely sail with empty cabins.  The companies will fill seats and cabins to stretch income.  They are just moving what limited upgrades there are from free to revenue producing.  You are right about being sure to attach the right perceived value to your bid if you choose to play the game.  Caveat Emptor.  Or, caveat emptier!

One aspect of this that seems somewhat specific to cruise lines is the possibility of multiple reservations. I always wonder how much of a factor that is. It's not uncommon for me to see someone on CC say that he/she has multiple bookings on different lines for roughly the same time period, and he/she is just waiting it out to see if prices and promotions change before the final cruise payment is due. That isn't possible on airlines unless you're willing to pay the exorbitant price for fully refundable fares. Could it be (I'm asking because I really don't know) that NCL and now MSC are using the bidding process as a way to ensure that more cabins are booked earlier in advance? I'd love to see industry stats on what percentage of bookings are canceled just before the final payment. 

[sidari]

Making Loss of deposit for everyone and not just those in the UK would stop the blocking of cabins for up to two years on new ships and possibly cut down those with multiple bookings on the same sailing.

[sverigecruiser]

1 hour ago, DCGuy64 said:

 Could it be (I'm asking because I really don't know) that NCL and now MSC are using the bidding process as a way to ensure that more cabins are booked earlier in advance? 

 

I don't understand why the bidding system should ensure that more cabins are booked earlier in advance.

 

Less of the more expensive cabins will probably be booked early with the bidding system because many will book a cheaper cabin and hope for an upgrade.

[BermudaBound2014]

7 hours ago, JAGR said:

.  Those who book a cabin type or class less than they want or are willing to stay in may very well be in for a rude awakening!

 

 

I agree and restate that I would never recommend booking a lower class than you are willing to stay in.  While it's relatively easy to tease out what sailings will likely offer bidding for upgrades, the counterpart is also true. There are many sailings where an upgrade offer to YC will likely not be available. Book low and consider anything more a bonus. That's the risk part of the equation we keep mentioning ;-). 

[ollienbertsmum]

On 7/2/2019 at 9:14 PM, Rou-Dyliq said:

 

For all of you saying this is a fair and open market transaction, you need to read up on the psychology behind auctions and especially silent auctions where an inflated "retail value" is placed on an item.  Many people will bid more than they initially are willing to in order to obtain what they perceive to be a bargain (more than what they would pay for it if it were a traditional transaction), and you should never discount the appeal of winning something.  Cruise lines, charities and ebay know this well and don't think for one second they don't employ this to their advantage.  I do not gamble, I want to know what I'm purchasing and I am not willing to play this game that turns the entire process of cruising into a silent auction.  I still think we have to see how this plays out for MSC, but if this turns out how it's looking I'm out.  I think MSC knows what they are doing here and this will drive people like me onto their small luxury ships that are due out in a few years but I think by then they will find a lot of us have moved on to other luxury lines or doing land vacations.  I have a limit on how much I spend on a vacation - we are not wealthy - and I am not going to spend above it for the luxury of subsidizing other low bids. 

 

 

'The psychology behind auctions' comment made me nod my head!!   I too have my budget.  My rule is that a cruise has to be affordable out of my salary and not paid off later from a credit card.  

 

I have booked a NCL cruise to the Greek Islands in September.  Even though it is my 60th birthday trip, I felt that the balcony just was not worth the extra $$$.  I booked an OV.  I chose the room very carefully.  

 

I have now been checking my emails to see if I get the option of an upgrade.  I had a think about the amount I would have been willing to bid.  As I was thinking I realised that if I had have done a bid, I would have paid more than the price I had rejected as 'too expensive'.  😂😂😂  I also would have had no choice on the location of the room.  

 

I will stick to booking and choosing my own stateroom.  

Edited July 6, 2019 by ollienbertsmum

[BermudaBound2014]

5 hours ago, ollienbertsmum said:

I will stick to booking and choosing my own stateroom.  

 

And that's the beauty of the system. Those that need to choose their own stateroom can still do so. Those of us willing to take a risk can benefit with a reduced cost.

[TrinaLC]

2 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

And that's the beauty of the system. Those that need to choose their own stateroom can still do so. Those of us willing to take a risk can benefit with a reduced cost.

 

That is the beauty of it for *you*. For those like me, it means increased cost for what used to be standard means of pricing/picking.