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lenquixote66

Tips to the Wait staff

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6 hours ago, mom says said:

 

I'm going to take exception to these statements.  First of all, it is hardly slave labour. Whether they get a weekly/monthly fixed salary plus auto gratuities, or a higher fixed wage equal to the former ( in the case of lines that rolled the autograts into the cruise price), the crew have agreed to the terms and conditions of their employment. They are not forced to sign their contracts.  They are not forced to renew or sign new contracts at the end of their existing one. If the pay and working conditions were as  bad as you infer, the cruise lines would not have so many crew members who have stayed with them for  years and years.

 

So how about not imposing Your personal value system, which comes from a place of privilege, on the rest of the world? If you have strong "ethical" objections, or are just cheap and stingy, take yourself and your wallet to a line whose tipping policy aligns with your own. But if you insist on sailing on ships who charge autograts, then pay the #@&*/ autograts.

But if the line allows people to remove them, they are sailing with a line whose policy aligns with theirs.

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31 minutes ago, DarrenM said:

I pay upfront for all tips. Its included in the price I pay.

 

Thanks.  I don't think we all knew or assumed that.

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7 hours ago, DarrenM said:

I decide who I tip. Not some unwritten rule that a cruise ship has.

 

But you just posted that you leave the gratuities in place and then may tip in addition to that.  And I don't think the 'rule' is unwritten.  At least the documents I've received have been completely upfront about that.

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4 minutes ago, clo said:

But you just posted that you leave the gratuities in place and then may tip in addition to that.  And I don't think the 'rule' is unwritten.  At least the documents I've received have been completely upfront about that.

 

No, he made us believe he kept the auto gratuities in place, when in fact he says they are included in the price he pays, which I assume means it is part of the base fare and cannot be removed. 

 

And he is right that there is no "rule" to pay gratuities on most ships. It is a suggestion. And some people ignore suggestions when it benefits themselves to do so. Just like it is not a rule but a suggestion to refrain from using a smartphone at the theater but they do it anyway. Or talk loudly when visiting a place of worship when it is requested that the talk in whispers. Or force themselves to the front of a line because there is no absolute rule against it. Or take photos in museums when the sign clearly says no to do so.

 

It is all about satisfying themselves. 

 

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Posted (edited)

We always leave the cruise line gratuities on and usually tip our room steward extra.

 

We usually don't tip  wait staff extra except for a couple of times when they went above and beyond; once when we were cruising with 7 !! grandchildren and they made meal times so special for them and once when, even in Anytime dining, we got the same wait staff most nights and they really treated us extremely well.

 

But tipping extra is not necessary (as long as you leave the daily gratuity on) but a matter of choice. 

 

IMO removing the gratuities is very low.

Edited by Nebr.cruiser

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2 minutes ago, Nebr.cruiser said:

But tipping extra is not necessary (as long as you leave the daily gratuity on) but a matter of choice. 

 

Does anyone actually know what these folks make?  Do cabin stewards make the same as dining?  What about BOH?  "back of house." ?

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4 minutes ago, clo said:

Does anyone actually know what these folks make?  Do cabin stewards make the same as dining?  What about BOH?  "back of house." ?

I've seen all kinds of figures but it seems to be hard to pin this down.  I personally believe that with tips stewards and dining staff make a decent living.  I would think Back of House staff probably make less in tips but might have larger base pay. 

 

Base pay (without tips) is very low, reportedly, and tips--that is the daily gratuity charge--make up most of the worker's salaries. 

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On 8/16/2019 at 10:06 PM, clo said:

Interesting take.  I'll still call it a bribe but an interesting idea.

 

I'd like to ask a general question.  With auto-gratuities are the people receiving parts of this money making or not making a 'livable wage.'  Granted they're not paying rent or buying groceries but factoring that in, is it adequate?  If you have completely acceptable service but nothing really beyond that, I'm inclined to stick with the auto.  ???

It is an apology.

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8 minutes ago, clo said:

Does anyone actually know what these folks make?  Do cabin stewards make the same as dining?  What about BOH?  "back of house." ?

How much do you make?

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2 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

How much do you make?

Well, first of all, I'm retired so I 'make' nothing.  But, come on.  There's all manner of info about the average salaries of every human on the planet.  So what do cruise staff make.  And, yes, I factor in that they have "room and board" but are frequently or always sending money home.  And @Elaine57, what's your point

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6 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

It is an apology.

What's an apology?

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It's nobody's  business what their wages are but the crew and their employers. If I had someone poking into my business about my annual income (other than the revenue agency) I'd rip them a new one.

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On 8/17/2019 at 11:57 AM, SantaFeFan said:

Coming from a lower income family, in order to put myself through college I used to wait tables. I cannot over emphasize the number of people who would leave small or no tips for our busy group of college age servers. Based on the cost of the items they would select for their meals, it was crystal clear they could afford even the average tips. But, so many did not leave them. To this day I find the idea of taking advantage of someone who is on a lower level of the economic scale to be selfish and mean spirited. 

 

I worked in the service industry in my younger years too and could not agree more.  

 

With some regional exceptions the accepted social convention is to tip servers.  Cruise lines offer automatic gratuities as a convenience to passengers.  No worries about who to tip and in what amount.  Anyone who removes the automatic gratuities on a cruise is no different from the low life creep who demands attentive service, rings up an expensive dinner tab, demands attentive service and doesn't leave a tip.

 

Incidentally if you don't tip in places where it is the accepted social convention it's quite ill-advised to eat there again.  Servers have long memories.  

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I am always astounded that posters on CC are so inquisitive about the income of cruise line employees in tipped positions. Why does it matter to a cruiser? 

The "I'm retired so I make nothing" response is just disingenuous. It's pretty obvious that the question was, "what's your income?" Insulting to ask? Perhaps. But perhaps not in the context a discussion that has a lot of inquiring about other people's income. 

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7 minutes ago, CPT Trips said:

I am always astounded that posters on CC are so inquisitive about the income of cruise line employees in tipped positions. Why does it matter to a cruiser? 

The "I'm retired so I make nothing" response is just disingenuous. It's pretty obvious that the question was, "what's your income?" Insulting to ask? Perhaps. But perhaps not in the context a discussion that has a lot of inquiring about other people's income. 

My point is that they don't make a whole lot and most that I've known are sending money home.  Get over it please.

 

BTW in today's corporate culture I understand it's quite normal for people to know what others are making.  Makes for good negotiating.

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23 hours ago, clo said:

What's an apology?

Giving cash to the steward who put up with the nonsense of high maintenance spouse

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1 hour ago, K32682 said:

 

I worked in the service industry in my younger years too and could not agree more.  

 

With some regional exceptions the accepted social convention is to tip servers.  Cruise lines offer automatic gratuities as a convenience to passengers.  No worries about who to tip and in what amount.  Anyone who removes the automatic gratuities on a cruise is no different from the low life creep who demands attentive service, rings up an expensive dinner tab, demands attentive service and doesn't leave a tip.

 

Incidentally if you don't tip in places where it is the accepted social convention it's quite ill-advised to eat there again.  Servers have long memories.  

So do crew.  They know which repeat cruisers pull tips especially Plats/Diamonds. 

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I'm travelling in Europe so I'm up early EST and man, reading a tipping thread first thing in the morning is so wonderful. I feel like Robert Duvall's character, Colonel Kilgore, felt in Apocalypse Now, about napalm; 'God, I love the smell of tipping threads in the morning.... They smell like victory.'

 

We start off with tipping and then we get to different tipping cultures, cruise staff salaries and last night it was on to Social Security and retired people. Today will we wonder over to government deficits and how current social security programmes or programs may not be funded by the past or current generation of taxpayers but the next, and the next? Or will we meander over to someplace totally new? Darren, corporate greed must play a part here somehow?

 

I'll tune back in later to see how today's "As The Tipping World Turns" plays out.

 

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On 8/15/2019 at 2:33 AM, wowzz said:

Not exactly the case, as cruise lines make up the difference when autogratuities are removed. 

Also,  can you provide evidence as to the supposed low morale on these itineraries? Anecdotal evidence would indicate that many crew members prefer European cruises due to the difference in behaviour and demeanour of the passenger mix compared to US sailings.

Like the  P&O sailing where they had a major drunken riot because someone wore a clown suit during formal night?

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1 minute ago, Doug R. said:

Like the  P&O sailing where they had a major drunken riot because someone wore a clown suit during formal night?

There was a minor skirmish at 2a.m. There never was a clown  - one of the participants called another one "a clown", which was then taken out of context by a sloppy reporter. 

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19 minutes ago, Doug R. said:

Like the  P&O sailing where they had a major drunken riot because someone wore a clown suit during formal night?

 

15 minutes ago, wowzz said:

There was a minor skirmish at 2a.m. There never was a clown  - one of the participants called another one "a clown", which was then taken out of context by a sloppy reporter. 

Please forgive this poor ignorant Yank for believing that you British could ever be as rude, combative and uncouth as you seem to think we are. Then again there was the stories our tour host in Madrid told us about the behavior of British on holiday when she was working in Ibiza..........

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On 8/14/2019 at 9:05 PM, mom says said:

Agree with the PPs that ADDITIONAL grats are at the discretion of the individual. But those who remove the auto grats (without good cause) are the lowest of the low.

 

Now someone break out the popcorn. Waiting for the inevitable Scrooge who will rant about auto grats and how they shouldn't have to pay those if they don't want to.

Well,  to be fair, isn't that the nature of an optional choice. People can choose whether or not to pay. A choice means there isn't any obligation. 

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2 hours ago, cruizergal70 said:

People can choose whether or not to pay. A choice means there isn't any obligation. 

There's no LEGAL obligation.  But ethically and morally?

 

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6 minutes ago, clo said:

There's no LEGAL obligation.  But ethically and morally?

 

I usually leave the tips on but I feel no moral or ethical obligation.  The employees receive their pay from the cruise line. I'm personally a low maintenance cruiser. I don't even eat in the MDR and I do my best to never need to ask the staff for anything.

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