What are the 'Port Fees and Taxes'?

[moondoggie]

These costs are rising and rising.  Is there a breakdown of Port Fees by individual port, and a breakdown of 'taxes and other fees'?

Me thinks that the cruise lines are charging especially high 'port fees and taxes' for Private Island ports, which of course, just gets paid back to them.

Anywhere I can look?

[WisconsinFan]

This article helps explain what these are. Private Islands do have port fees and taxes- paid to the government that the island is located in. https://www.shermanstravel.com/advice/cruise-taxes-explained/

[BlueRiband]

Port fees are complicated.  Here's a 2014 post from the board's industry insider:

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/1932236-cruise-taxes-and-fees/?do=findComment&comment=40842304

 

"Everyone - including the cruise lines - is confused by port charges and taxes. They are extremely complicated, differ greatly from port to port and country to country, and are constantly changing.

 

"There are many different port taxes and fees charged to a cruise ship.

 

"Many - but certainly not all - ports charge a fixed dollar amount for each paying passenger onboard the ship. But this number can go up or down with very little warning. Quite often, this amount as a part of the port taxes you paid several months ago when you booked the cruise has changed - up or down - by the time your ship goes to that particular port. When you board you then find a small refund - or a small additional charge - that reflects the change.

 

"Some ports (not all) charge fixed wharfage and head taxes based on the size of the ship rather than the number of paying passengers onboard. Then the cruise line has to calculate the port taxes by dividing the overall port charges by number of paying passengers actually onboard the ship on the day of that particular port visit. If your cruise is very full you may pay lower fees and taxes than if it was not so full.

 

"Many ports have several piers. Some piers carry higher port charges and taxes than other piers. It is often the case that a cruise ship Captain is not sure which pier he will be assigned to until just a day or even a few hours before he arrives in the port. In San Juan for example, the fees and taxes for a ship visiting for the day at the Old Town piers are far higher than the fees for a ship visiting or turning around at the Panamerican Piers across the harbor.

 

"At Sydney harbor, we like to dock at "the Rocks", just across from the Opera House. We pay much higher fees, but the location is great for our passengers. But if a large ship that cannot fit under the Sydney Harbort Bridge happens to show up, they get priority and we are shifted to the new Sydney Terminal in Darling Harbor. We pay far less in fees and taxes at the new terminal, but it is not nearly as convenient.

 

"Many ports charge by the hour or by a segment of hours. If a ship stays longer at a pier, it is charged more money. Those charges are passed on to the passengers.

 

"In some countries, a ship pays higher - or lower - fees and taxes depending on which country the cruise originated in.

 

"Two or three times every month (on average) I receive an email from the Head Office explaining how much more I need to charge - or refund - every new guest because one or more ports or countries has changed the tax or fee structure at one or more ports on our itinerary.

 

"In some ports, the cruise line has a special deal with one pier owner or another, giving them lower port charges, which are passed on to the passengers. In St Thomas, for example, HAL, Princess, and Cunard ships normally go to the the Sub Base Pier and pay substantially lower fees than the other ships that go to the Havensight pier downtown.

At Key West, the smaller ships are allowed to dock right down town - and pay much higher fees than the bigger ships that are docked at the Navy Pier.

 

"When my ship was in Shanghai last week, we were small enough to fit under the bridge and tie up at the end of the Bund in the center of town. We paid a substantial premium for that. Our Royal Caribbean competitors could not fit their ship in the Huang Pu river and instead had to go to the Container Terminal quite a way out of town. Even though they are much bigger than us, they paid lower fees.

 

"Are you confused yet? We usually are. And I have only scratched the surface of the myriad of factors that cause the confusion that surrounds port charges, fees, and taxes.

 

"How is this all controlled?

Several years ago, a few cruise lines were caught inflating taxes and fees for passengers.

The State of Florida brought major lawsuits against those lines, won the lawsuits, and the lines had to pay many millions in penalties.

From that point on, several US Government Organisations monitor and audit fees and taxes charged by all the cruise lines calling at US ports, keeping everyone honest."

[Floridiana]

BlueRiband,

 

Thank you so much for the explanation. I didn't know the fees could vary so much. Personally I like cruise lines that incorporate them in the overall price, no up and down for passengers. 

Edited September 4, 2019 by Floridiana

[SRF]

Not that much difference than air fares.

 

Have you looked at the breakdown of what you are paying?  Many times, less than half the ticket price is the actual air fare, the rest is taxes, fees, surcharges, etc.

 

In the airline world, the US law requires that airlines advertise the actual ticket price, not the "air fare" portion only.

 

As I recall, this was due to one airline that preferred to advertise only the air fare, so they would look like they were very low cost compared to the others.  So Congress passed a law mandating advertising the full ticket price.

 

It seems that many people still seem to think this airline is very low cost.  While every time I have compared prices, they were similar, or actually higher than the big 3 airlines.

 

Interestingly, this airline will NOT allow its prices to be on any of the fare comparison sites.  I wonder why that is? 😄

 

[CruiserBruce]

There have been a number of extensive discussions about this, and lawsuits. Port fees and taxes don't go to the cruise lines, they don't derive revenues from it. It is urban myth that cruise lines just raise port fees and taxes to increase profits.

 

@BlueRiband, thanks for bringing up that great explanation and illustrating the value of a search.

[sparks1093]

59 minutes ago, SRF said:

Not that much difference than air fares.

 

Have you looked at the breakdown of what you are paying?  Many times, less than half the ticket price is the actual air fare, the rest is taxes, fees, surcharges, etc.

 

In the airline world, the US law requires that airlines advertise the actual ticket price, not the "air fare" portion only.

 

As I recall, this was due to one airline that preferred to advertise only the air fare, so they would look like they were very low cost compared to the others.  So Congress passed a law mandating advertising the full ticket price.

 

It seems that many people still seem to think this airline is very low cost.  While every time I have compared prices, they were similar, or actually higher than the big 3 airlines.

 

Interestingly, this airline will NOT allow its prices to be on any of the fare comparison sites.  I wonder why that is? 😄

 

I looked at the breakdown for our last trip to Germany and the airfare itself was around $300 with around $550 in taxes and fees added. As for cruise fare I think the lines do a good job of indicating how much the taxes and fees are during the booking process online. 

[navybankerteacher]

2 hours ago, Floridiana said:

BlueRiband,

 

Thank you so much for the explanation. I didn't know the fees could vary so much. Personally I like cruise lines that incorporate them in the overall price, no up and down for passengers. 

Are there such lines?

 

As a practical matter, many things you buy have comparable add-ons.

 

 I recently reserved an Avis rental car for a planned

trip to Florida. The following add-one are scheduled: 

Concession Recovery Fee:  11.11%

Energy Recovery Fee: $.60 per  day

Florida Surcharge: $2.00 per day

Vehicle License Fee: $.80 per day

Waste Tire/Battery Fee: $.01 per day.

 

My Delta flight comes with these (per passenger):

US -September 11Security Fee: $11.20

US Transportation Tax: $35.10

US Passenger Facility Charge: $9.00

US Flight Segment Tax: $8.40

These add-ons brings the $467.90 fare up to $531.60

 

These add-ons are simply part of the reality of travel today.

 

[Elaine5715]

4 hours ago, BlueRiband said:

Port fees are complicated.  Here's a 2014 post from the board's industry insider:

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/1932236-cruise-taxes-and-fees/?do=findComment&comment=40842304

 

"Everyone - including the cruise lines - is confused by port charges and taxes. They are extremely complicated, differ greatly from port to port and country to country, and are constantly changing.

 

"There are many different port taxes and fees charged to a cruise ship.

 

"Many - but certainly not all - ports charge a fixed dollar amount for each paying passenger onboard the ship. But this number can go up or down with very little warning. Quite often, this amount as a part of the port taxes you paid several months ago when you booked the cruise has changed - up or down - by the time your ship goes to that particular port. When you board you then find a small refund - or a small additional charge - that reflects the change.

 

"Some ports (not all) charge fixed wharfage and head taxes based on the size of the ship rather than the number of paying passengers onboard. Then the cruise line has to calculate the port taxes by dividing the overall port charges by number of paying passengers actually onboard the ship on the day of that particular port visit. If your cruise is very full you may pay lower fees and taxes than if it was not so full.

 

"Many ports have several piers. Some piers carry higher port charges and taxes than other piers. It is often the case that a cruise ship Captain is not sure which pier he will be assigned to until just a day or even a few hours before he arrives in the port. In San Juan for example, the fees and taxes for a ship visiting for the day at the Old Town piers are far higher than the fees for a ship visiting or turning around at the Panamerican Piers across the harbor.

 

"At Sydney harbor, we like to dock at "the Rocks", just across from the Opera House. We pay much higher fees, but the location is great for our passengers. But if a large ship that cannot fit under the Sydney Harbort Bridge happens to show up, they get priority and we are shifted to the new Sydney Terminal in Darling Harbor. We pay far less in fees and taxes at the new terminal, but it is not nearly as convenient.

 

"Many ports charge by the hour or by a segment of hours. If a ship stays longer at a pier, it is charged more money. Those charges are passed on to the passengers.

 

"In some countries, a ship pays higher - or lower - fees and taxes depending on which country the cruise originated in.

 

"Two or three times every month (on average) I receive an email from the Head Office explaining how much more I need to charge - or refund - every new guest because one or more ports or countries has changed the tax or fee structure at one or more ports on our itinerary.

 

"In some ports, the cruise line has a special deal with one pier owner or another, giving them lower port charges, which are passed on to the passengers. In St Thomas, for example, HAL, Princess, and Cunard ships normally go to the the Sub Base Pier and pay substantially lower fees than the other ships that go to the Havensight pier downtown.

At Key West, the smaller ships are allowed to dock right down town - and pay much higher fees than the bigger ships that are docked at the Navy Pier.

 

"When my ship was in Shanghai last week, we were small enough to fit under the bridge and tie up at the end of the Bund in the center of town. We paid a substantial premium for that. Our Royal Caribbean competitors could not fit their ship in the Huang Pu river and instead had to go to the Container Terminal quite a way out of town. Even though they are much bigger than us, they paid lower fees.

 

"Are you confused yet? We usually are. And I have only scratched the surface of the myriad of factors that cause the confusion that surrounds port charges, fees, and taxes.

 

"How is this all controlled?

Several years ago, a few cruise lines were caught inflating taxes and fees for passengers.

The State of Florida brought major lawsuits against those lines, won the lawsuits, and the lines had to pay many millions in penalties.

From that point on, several US Government Organisations monitor and audit fees and taxes charged by all the cruise lines calling at US ports, keeping everyone honest."

So, other people's inconsiderate behavior does impact my wallet.  Interesting.  I knew the ship was charged more when they overstayed waiting for late guests but I didn't realize the specific cost was passed on to the other guests who were on time.  

[navybankerteacher]

39 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

So, other people's inconsiderate behavior does impact my wallet.  Interesting.  I knew the ship was charged more when they overstayed waiting for late guests but I didn't realize the specific cost was passed on to the other guests who were on time.  

I do not think the specific charges which a port might impose on a line if a ship overstays it’s time alongside due to its waiting for a couple of pier runners is ever passed on to the other passengers.

 

Can you imagine the lines at the passenger service desk on the last evening if every passenger showed up to ask about the $3.28 pro rated fee on their statement for late departure from Nassau?

[Floridiana]

2 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

5 hours ago, Floridiana said:

BlueRiband,

 

Thank you so much for the explanation. I didn't know the fees could vary so much. Personally I like cruise lines that incorporate them in the overall price, no up and down for passengers. 

Are there such lines?

Oceania 

[Elaine5715]

4 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

I do not think the specific charges which a port might impose on a line if a ship overstays it’s time alongside due to its waiting for a couple of pier runners is ever passed on to the other passengers.

 

Can you imagine the lines at the passenger service desk on the last evening if every passenger showed up to ask about the $3.28 pro rated fee on their statement for late departure from Nassau?

At one of the Q&A, the CD say it cost about $1000 a minute to wait at one of the ports and it was the Captain's call.  I see port refunds on every S&S  so conceivably is could be higher if we always left on time.

We waited over an hour in May at St. Thomas for people not on a Carnival excursion 

[navybankerteacher]

I am sure that cruise lines incur expenses if they extend their port stays - but I have never seen an extra charge added to my on board account after sailing was delayed by late-returning passengers (or for any other reason), and I have never received a refund  - presumably because port charges for over-staying had been built in.   I have received refunds of port charges in cases where we missed ports, either because of weather or mechanical issues.

 

I would not expect to be expected to pay such charges because the captain happened to decide to stay in port longer — for any reason.

Edited September 5, 2019 by navybankerteacher
Missing point.

[Elaine5715]

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

I am sure that cruise lines incur expenses if they extend their port stays - but I have never seen an extra charge added to my on board account after sailing was delayed by late-returning passengers (or for any other reason), and I have never received a refund  - presumably because port charges for over-staying had been built in.   I have received refunds of port charges in cases where we missed ports, either because of weather or mechanical issues.

 

I would not expect to be expected to pay such charges because the captain happened to decide to stay in port longer — for any reason.

I have $5-20 in port fees refunded every cruise with no missed ports.  

[navybankerteacher]

14 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

I have $5-20 in port fees refunded every cruise with no missed ports.  

And, have you experienced additional port fees added to your account because the ship overstayed due to late returning passengers?

 

Interesting that our experiences are so different.

[capriccio]

14 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

I have $5-20 in port fees refunded every cruise with no missed ports.  

In our case we haven't received refunds on every cruise but on enough that I'm not surprised when it does happen.  Usually refunds run from $3 to $10 per person if I remember correctly - and most of them have not been for missed ports because we've been very lucky and have had very, very few of them in our 25+ cruises.

[Heidi13]

13 hours ago, Floridiana said:

BlueRiband,

 

Thank you so much for the explanation. I didn't know the fees could vary so much. Personally I like cruise lines that incorporate them in the overall price, no up and down for passengers. 

Viking Ocean also include fees & taxes in the base fare

[leaveitallbehind]

21 hours ago, Floridiana said:

BlueRiband,

 

Thank you so much for the explanation. I didn't know the fees could vary so much. Personally I like cruise lines that incorporate them in the overall price, no up and down for passengers. 

 

Except that when port fees do change that change is incorporated into the base fare which will be adjusted accordingly relative to when a given cruise is purchased.  So there most certainly will be an up and down as these rates change - it will just be as the total fare paid v s separate cost added to the base.  Personally I prefer them as additional charges as that makes the base fare between cruise lines with similar itineraries transparent. 

[whogo]

I do not know how cruise lines can estimate port fees and taxes more than a year ahead of time. They don't know what the passenger load will be, they don't know what the foreign currency exchange rate will be, they don't know what fees will be increased. My guess is that they never predict it all correctly. When cruisers get a refund, the cruise line overestimated the taxes and fees. When cruisers do not get a refund, I figure the cruise line underestimated the taxes and fees and eats the loss rather than outraging customers with a price increase, even if it is only $5.35.

[leaveitallbehind]

34 minutes ago, whogo said:

I do not know how cruise lines can estimate port fees and taxes more than a year ahead of time. They don't know what the passenger load will be, they don't know what the foreign currency exchange rate will be, they don't know what fees will be increased. My guess is that they never predict it all correctly. When cruisers get a refund, the cruise line overestimated the taxes and fees. When cruisers do not get a refund, I figure the cruise line underestimated the taxes and fees and eats the loss rather than outraging customers with a price increase, even if it is only $5.35.

 

As has been explained to me by an industry contact, it's not an estimate. They are negotiated with the ports of call when itineraries are set and are in place for agreed time frames with adjustment periods incorporated in their port contracts.  They are based on a per person basis, and with historic data with ship capacities the estimated loads are very predictable and plus or minus a small percentage on any given itinerary on balance won't affect the rates. 

 

Keep in mind, using the Caribbean as example, most ports of call have been called on for many years by many cruise lines and as most mass market cruise ships sail full with most itineraries, it's not quite the guessing game I think your comments imply.  Typically, refunds are issued when ports of call are missed, but periodic adjustments up and down are made as indicated.  Even small amounts of change if consistent over time either way translate to large $ when factored by passenger load, etc.  They likely aren't absorbed by either party, which would certainly be part of the periodic agreed rate adjustments.

Edited September 5, 2019 by leaveitallbehind

[Elaine5715]

10 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

And, have you experienced additional port fees added to your account because the ship overstayed due to late returning passengers?

 

Interesting that our experiences are so different.

I expect they overcharge for port fees to avoid charging extra or maybe the extra comes out of the Captain's bonus since he choose to stay or go.  I will have to start "paying" attention to see if there is pattern.  

[leaveitallbehind]

40 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

I expect they overcharge for port fees to avoid charging extra or maybe the extra comes out of the Captain's bonus since he choose to stay or go.  I will have to start "paying" attention to see if there is pattern.  

 

No, they don't.  The port fees are fixed and are not arbitrarily applied, but there can be a penalty charged by the port for late departures, etc.   This, too, is part of the port contract negotiated with the cruise lines.  The Captain's choice to delay departure or not is at his discretion based on the individual circumstance. 

 

What information do you have to imply that he receives a bonus at all or that, if there is one, it would somehow be affected by this?

Edited September 5, 2019 by leaveitallbehind

[whogo]

We received a refund of $83.59 on our 38 cruise on the Noordam last November. We did not miss a port, did not stay late, did not leave early. Maybe New Zealand refunded some port fees because it was such a pleasure to have me in their country.

[moondoggie]

So, nowhere I can view the port fees by destination?  I am curious.

Since the cruise lines lump port fees and taxes together, I am even more curious!

Thanks for some good information by posters!

[leaveitallbehind]

38 minutes ago, moondoggie said:

So, nowhere I can view the port fees by destination?  I am curious.

Since the cruise lines lump port fees and taxes together, I am even more curious!

Thanks for some good information by posters!

 

I'm not aware of any place - or any way - that information would be available on a per port basis.  It is not a simple $X per person charge, but a negotiated calculation between the ports and the cruise lines that is based on ship size, etc., that is typically averaged across the ship - or fleet - and then assessed per person as part of the total cruise fare.  And this could logically also vary between cruise lines as well.  The fact that it may be lumped together with taxes as a single add on further complicates that.

 

But I guess I am curious why you are curious?  This is not a profit center for the cruises lines or an arbitrary charge to their bottom line, but rather a straight pass through of a cost they are assessed by the ports and government as third party charges as part of them doing business as a cruise line.  The total of any port fees and taxes charged to you as a passenger is the same as that charged to the cruise line.  Not sure I see why it would be necessary to know what $ value of that is a port charge for each port on a given itinerary.