What are the 'Port Fees and Taxes'?

[Elaine5715]

6 hours ago, leaveitallbehind said:

 

No, they don't.  The port fees are fixed and are not arbitrarily applied, but there can be a penalty charged by the port for late departures, etc.   This, too, is part of the port contract negotiated with the cruise lines.  The Captain's choice to delay departure or not is at his discretion based on the individual circumstance. 

 

What information do you have to imply that he receives a bonus at all or that, if there is one, it would somehow be affected by this?

Assumption...  why do some Captains wait an hour and some wait no minutes? There is usually a reason.  Been on many cruises where they waited well past departure (not for Carnival delayed excursions) and cranked it to get to the next port increasing the fuel burn.  Doesn't make sense that the Captain would just wait for drunks weaving up the dock after 60 minutes of blowing the horn and then waste fuel.  

[CruiserBruce]

6 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

Assumption...  why do some Captains wait an hour and some wait no minutes? There is usually a reason.  Been on many cruises where they waited well past departure (not for Carnival delayed excursions) and cranked it to get to the next port increasing the fuel burn.  Doesn't make sense that the Captain would just wait for drunks weaving up the dock after 60 minutes of blowing the horn and then waste fuel.  

Each case, and each port is different. There is no one answer to your point.

[leaveitallbehind]

15 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

Assumption...  why do some Captains wait an hour and some wait no minutes? There is usually a reason.  Been on many cruises where they waited well past departure (not for Carnival delayed excursions) and cranked it to get to the next port increasing the fuel burn.  Doesn't make sense that the Captain would just wait for drunks weaving up the dock after 60 minutes of blowing the horn and then waste fuel.  

 

Well we all know the risks with that!  As CruiserBruce indicated there many reasons why Captains make those decisions and as I mentioned before it would be based on the individual circumstances at the time.  But there would be no sensible reason if there somehow were a bonus tied to it to break protocol and add risk and cost by delaying a departure and racing to the next port of call so as not to add to it with a late arrival there.  The argument just makes no sense - either from a logical or business perspective.  

[Elaine5715]

1 minute ago, leaveitallbehind said:

 

Well we all know the risks with that!  As CruiserBruce indicated there many reasons why Captains make those decisions and as I mentioned before it would be based on the individual circumstances at the time.  But there would be no sensible reason if there somehow were a bonus tied to it to break protocol and add risk and cost by delaying a departure and racing to the next port of call so as not to add to it with a late arrival there.  The argument just makes no sense - either from a logical or business perspective.  

Actually, if the Captain and Officers have the option to leave on time and not incur penalties imposed or leave late and incur penalties whether it be financial  against their pockets,  against the ship's financial targets (and yes, every cruise, every ship has expected sales targets and budgets), demerits or whatever instrument the cruise line uses to discourage  schedule disruptions, those factors would matter.  If the Captain has no reason not to wait endlessly, why wouldn't they?  No one complains to the media because they were on the ship on time.   Many times we have left late waiting for pier runners and had the CD later announce they were making up time.  Always made the next port in time because of the extra  speed. If me waiting for you because you can't use a watch was going to ding me on my review, budget, whatever, it would be "see ya".  

[leaveitallbehind]

14 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

Actually, if the Captain and Officers have the option to leave on time and not incur penalties imposed or leave late and incur penalties whether it be financial  against their pockets,  against the ship's financial targets (and yes, every cruise, every ship has expected sales targets and budgets), demerits or whatever instrument the cruise line uses to discourage  schedule disruptions, those factors would matter.  If the Captain has no reason not to wait endlessly, why wouldn't they?  No one complains to the media because they were on the ship on time.   Many times we have left late waiting for pier runners and had the CD later announce they were making up time.  Always made the next port in time because of the extra  speed. If me waiting for you because you can't use a watch was going to ding me on my review, budget, whatever, it would be "see ya".  

 

We will agree to disagree.  Hopefully chengkp75 or one of the others frequently on these boards with direct knowledge of ships operations will weigh in.  While I'm certain there are operational targets in place (as there would be with any business) I would question the weight of a personal bonus incentive (if one exists) on such a decision.

Edited September 6, 2019 by leaveitallbehind

[RocketMan275]

3 hours ago, leaveitallbehind said:

 

Well we all know the risks with that!  As CruiserBruce indicated there many reasons why Captains make those decisions and as I mentioned before it would be based on the individual circumstances at the time.  But there would be no sensible reason if there somehow were a bonus tied to it to break protocol and add risk and cost by delaying a departure and racing to the next port of call so as not to add to it with a late arrival there.  The argument just makes no sense - either from a logical or business perspective.  

I watched one of those cruse line shows on TV.  On this voyage there was a particularly important passenger who was always at least two hours late.  The ship always waited.

[Heidi13]

2 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

Actually, if the Captain and Officers have the option to leave on time and not incur penalties imposed or leave late and incur penalties whether it be financial  against their pockets,  against the ship's financial targets (and yes, every cruise, every ship has expected sales targets and budgets), demerits or whatever instrument the cruise line uses to discourage  schedule disruptions, those factors would matter.  If the Captain has no reason not to wait endlessly, why wouldn't they?  No one complains to the media because they were on the ship on time.   Many times we have left late waiting for pier runners and had the CD later announce they were making up time.  Always made the next port in time because of the extra  speed. If me waiting for you because you can't use a watch was going to ding me on my review, budget, whatever, it would be "see ya".  

In the majority of cases, the passengers are not aware of the "Big Picture", as when departure is delayed you are not normally provided all of the facts. Delaying departure for late passengers could be cover for a multitude of operational issues - bunkering, waiting for parts/victuals/stores, delayed pilot, harbourmaster directions, late crew, favourable tides, etc.

 

The Captain will weigh all operational issues, in accordance with the Ship Specific Manual and will also consider customer service. When departure is delayed; yes, additional fuel is burned to arrive on time, however the additional costs vary on the speed range. If the speed required is low, the additional fuel required is not excessive. However, if the ship is close to maximum speed, or GT's or additional prime movers are required, then the costs escalate.

 

Rest assured, Captains do not delay departure without a valid reason. 

[Capt_BJ]

local news today mentioned that changes/cancelations due to Dorian would result in a loss of approx $500,000 in lost revenue for dockage fees (ships pay by the foot and minute), passenger wharfage fees (everytime a pass' crosses from land to ship or reverse the port gets $) and line handling fees ....

 

And the impacts here were relatively light and somewhat made up for bu the extra visits of 6 ships today . . . 

 

but point is, the fees are significant esp' the per person fee which is something like $7 in PC (had the $ person from the port give a talk at a local CPA event not long ago ... explaining port finances)

[thinfool]

Circling back to the OP, while itemizing port fees and taxes could be done, it is still a fact of life.  They will be paid.  

There was a time, long ago, when they were rolled into the cruise fare.  As I remember, legal action resulted in separating them from the cruise fare so that we have the cruise fare and then we have the port fees and taxes.

When I think of port fees and taxes I always remember our full transit Panama Canal sailing a few years ago.  Fees and taxes were added, $400-500. per person.  Obviously paying for passage thru the Canal is pricey and several threads on CC have itemized the several fees the Canal Authority levies on cruise ships.

After that, paying port fees of $50-150 for a Caribbean cruise seems routine.

[Slugsta]

In the UK the port fees and taxes are rolled into the fare. I have never had money refunded, even after a missed port (although, thus far, we have been very lucky and only missed one port).

[Capt_BJ]

When I think of port fees and taxes I always remember our full transit Panama Canal sailing a few years ago.  Fees and taxes were added, $400-500. per person.  Obviously paying for passage thru the Canal is pricey and several threads on CC have itemized the several fees the Canal Authority levies on cruise ships.

 

http://panamaforbeginners.com/23-facts-know-panama-canal/

 

13. All tolls for the Panama Canal must be paid in cash, and must be paid at least 48 hours in advance.

14. Ships (with a few exceptions) are charged a toll based on their weight. The average toll for a ship to travel the canal is $150,000, but it can get much more expensive for the largest ships and additional surcharges. (a ship can pay extra for head of the line privilege)

 

16. The most expensive regular toll was paid by the cruise ship the Norwegian Pearl, which paid $375,600 to cross the canal (around $156 per pass'). UPDATE: With the opening of the new, larger locks as part of the canal expansion, this record has been significantly broken, as much larger ships can now pass through the canal. As of July 6th, 2016, the new record is held by the MOL Benefactor, a 10,000 TEU cargo ship which paid $829,000 to transit the new locks. It is expected that when a post-Panamax ship (which can hold up to 13,000 TEU of cargo) transits the new canal, that the record toll will pass $1 million.

[BillB48]

3 hours ago, Capt_BJ said:

16. The most expensive regular toll was paid by the cruise ship the Norwegian Pearl, which paid $375,600 to cross the canal (around $156 per pass'). UPDATE: With the opening of the new, larger locks as part of the canal expansion, this record has been significantly broken, as much larger ships can now pass through the canal. As of July 6th, 2016, the new record is held by the MOL Benefactor, a 10,000 TEU cargo ship which paid $829,000 to transit the new locks. It is expected that when a post-Panamax ship (which can hold up to 13,000 TEU of cargo) transits the new canal, that the record toll will pass $1 million.

 

The Canal hit the 1 million+ tolls about 2 years ago and recently they transited a 15000+TEU container vessel.  Did not hear what the toll was for that one.

 

Current tolls for passenger ships are based on total passenger capacity without regard if there is a head in the bed.  As long as there is one paying passenger aboard then the toll will be calculated at the laden rate for the total number of passenger berths.  Currently it is 138ppb for the old locks and 148ppb for the new locks and there are a number of other significant charges that technically are not tolls, but you will pay them anyway.  Among them are reservation (head of the line) and daylight transit guarantee, those two come up to $65K.  Of course there is a laundry list of other charges, but who's counting when we are among friends.

 

Come January there will be changes from total number of passenger berths to the actual passenger capacity and the capacity rate will be bracketed into groups depending on how many passengers are carried.  That is the simple way of saying it will cost more.

[SRF]

On 9/7/2019 at 8:15 AM, thinfool said:

Circling back to the OP, while itemizing port fees and taxes could be done, it is still a fact of life.  They will be paid.  

There was a time, long ago, when they were rolled into the cruise fare.  As I remember, legal action resulted in separating them from the cruise fare so that we have the cruise fare and then we have the port fees and taxes.

When I think of port fees and taxes I always remember our full transit Panama Canal sailing a few years ago.  Fees and taxes were added, $400-500. per person.  Obviously paying for passage thru the Canal is pricey and several threads on CC have itemized the several fees the Canal Authority levies on cruise ships.

After that, paying port fees of $50-150 for a Caribbean cruise seems routine.

 

Funny, the law requires cruises to separate the taxes and fees.  And the law requires airlines to INCLUDE the taxes and fees in advertised prices. 😄