Real ID

[ducklite]

3 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

 

I will agree with you on that one.  But in this day and age where people can successfully have police officers removed from a coffee shop because they are offended by the guns, the wave of complaints at TSA would be far greater than it is today.  We have too many people nowadays who just can't handle life's realities, let alone a TSA agent toting an M4.  

I"d prefer it if they were toting an Armalite. Longer barrel and all.  🤣

[ducklite]

Just now, navybankerteacher said:

I guess you do not feel that New York, Massachussettts , New Hampshire or Connecticut (where I have lived and heard such terms frequently used) are in the northeast.

 

 

 

That's where I grew up and most of my family and over half of my friends and customer base live and work.  I spent well over half of my life in the Northeast, and no, those are not terms regularly heard outside of a courtroom north of the Mason-Dixon line.

[clo]

13 minutes ago, ducklite said:

our TSA

YOUR TSA.  As you can tell, others don't have the same experience as you.

 

In case you need a little education, when I walk up to the first TSA agent I say something like "Good morning.  Looks like it's been pretty busy."  When he's looking at my ID I might then say "As you can tell I'm much better looking than that photo."  🙂  It's called "establishing rapport" which is something I do a good bit of.  And part of the reason is that with people who can make my life easier or not, it helps.  But I always have to remember that not everyone was raised as I was.  That politeness isn't second nature.  That remaining silent isn't necessarily a good thing.

[navybankerteacher]

1 minute ago, ducklite said:

 

That's where I grew up and most of my family and over half of my friends and customer base live and work.  I spent well over half of my life in the Northeast, and no, those are not terms regularly heard outside of a courtroom north of the Mason-Dixon line.

They are heard -but perhaps only by people good at listening.

[clo]

17 minutes ago, ducklite said:

It's a regional thing.  In most of the country,  sir and ma'am are reserved for people like judges.

No, it's not.  What region would you be referring to?  Certainly not the South.  Or anywhere else that I'm aware of...in the US or elsewhere in the world.

[ducklite]

1 minute ago, clo said:

YOUR TSA.  As you can tell, others don't have the same experience as you.

 

In case you need a little education, when I walk up to the first TSA agent I say something like "Good morning.  Looks like it's been pretty busy."  When he's looking at my ID I might then say "As you can tell I'm much better looking than that photo."  🙂  It's called "establishing rapport" which is something I do a good bit of.  And part of the reason is that with people who can make my life easier or not, it helps.  But I always have to remember that not everyone was raised as I was.  That politeness isn't second nature.  That remaining silent isn't necessarily a good thing.

Again try flying through Orlando.  They motion with the flick of a finger for you to come up, and then glare at you like they hate their job, you, and themselves.  Why would any sane person risk irritating them more by saying a word to them other than "Thank you" when they hand your ID back?  That would be a great way to get selected for special screening.  The TSA morale here is terrible and they take it out on the public (when they aren't busy committing suicide in a very public manner).  Trust me, if you had to deal with them every time you flew, you'd feel the same way.  

[sparks1093]

15 minutes ago, ducklite said:

A good part of it.  People on the west coast and northeast, and I'd even say most of the northern midwest no not use "sir" and "Ma'am" like people in the southeast and southern midwest do.

This has probably been addressed but I was raised in the northeast and raised to treat others respectfully, including calling them sir and ma'am. 

[ducklite]

2 minutes ago, clo said:

No, it's not.  What region would you be referring to?  Certainly not the South.  Or anywhere else that I'm aware of...in the US or elsewhere in the world.

I'm not FROM the south.  I suspect that Navy hears it a lot because he's been surrounded by military types his entire life.  My BIL is a full colonel USAF, and even he doesn't say it outside of work.  It's just not a common thing in the northeast and west coast.

[clo]

28 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

even spoken to (much less directed by) low characters they see as “smurfs” and “burger flippers”.

And even if those words are never spoken it's might as well be because of the attitude.  

[Aquahound]

12 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

They are heard -but perhaps only by people good at listening.

 

I recently moved to the west coast and I gotta say, certain common courtesies do not seem to exist here.  People give each other the silent treatment and don't voice simple courtesies like "excuse me," "I'm sorry," or "would you mind" here.  I guess that goes along with the "sir" or "ma'am" thing.  One thing's for certain; it is NOT a good thing.  They've even put a name to it...."Seattle Freeze."  

 

Funny story, I said "thank you ma'am" to a cashier at Target a few days ago and she totally lit up.  She even thanked me for being nice.  It's amazing how 1 simple word has so much influence. But unfortunately, people are starting to lose that vision.  Sad.

Edited October 14, 2019 by Aquahound

[clo]

3 minutes ago, ducklite said:

west coast.

(Just counted and) I've been living on the Left Coast for 43 years and have no doubt that I hear and use the word every day.  Another bit of advice: you might not want to claim things that you don't really know are true.

[clo]

1 minute ago, Aquahound said:

Funny story, I said "thank you ma'am" to a cashier at Target a few days ago and she totally lit up.  She even thanked me for being nice.  It's amazing how 1 simple word has so much influence over a situation. But unfortunately, people are starting to lose that vision.  Sad.

Yeah.  See?  And we visit Seattle multiple times a year and don't experience what you describe.

[Aquahound]

4 minutes ago, clo said:

Yeah.  See?  And we visit Seattle multiple times a year and don't experience what you describe.

 

I shouldn't have said don't exist.  More like it's frighteningly vacant from every day language with many locals.  DW and I played tourist in the city a few days ago and people were much nicer.  But in the day to day life away from tourist activities, people are much more cold.  Of course, it could be that I'm noticing a big difference from where I used to live and where people were much nicer to one another.  

[clo]

1 minute ago, Aquahound said:

 

I shouldn't have said don't exist.  More like it's frighteningly vacant from every day language with many locals.  DW and I played tourist in the city a few days ago and people were much nicer.  But in the day to day life away from tourist activities, people are much more cold.  Of course, it could be that I'm noticing a big difference from where I used to live and where people were much nicer to one another.  

One of our daughters and her family live there and we also have a tiny apt. there so we're rarely doing tourist things 🙂  Lots of good eating though.

[ducklite]

25 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

 

I recently moved to the west coast and I gotta say, certain common courtesies do not seem to exist here.  People give each other the silent treatment and don't voice simple courtesies like "excuse me," "I'm sorry," or "would you mind" here.  I guess that goes along with the "sir" or "ma'am" thing.  One thing's for certain; it is NOT a good thing.  They've even put a name to it...."Seattle Freeze."  

 

Funny story, I said "thank you ma'am" to a cashier at Target a few days ago and she totally lit up.  She even thanked me for being nice.  It's amazing how 1 simple word has so much influence. But unfortunately, people are starting to lose that vision.  Sad.

I say thank you to cashiers even when I never get as much as a grunt in return most of the time these days.  But then again I never get a thank you or "you're welcome" after saying thank you to a TSA person.  Heck, I hold a door for someone and don't get a thank you nine time out of ten.  

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, ducklite said:

I'm not FROM the south.  I suspect that Navy hears it a lot because he's been surrounded by military types his entire life.  My BIL is a full colonel USAF, and even he doesn't say it outside of work.  It's just not a common thing in the northeast and west coast.

Perhaps what you are unable to understand is that such basic courtesy is not only a reflection of WHERE one is raised — but also  somewhat reflective of HOW one is raised.

[ducklite]

7 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Perhaps what you are unable to understand is that such basic courtesy is not only a reflection of WHERE one is raised — but also  somewhat reflective of HOW one is raised.

I was raised to use the terms, please, thank you, excuse me, etc., and I use them often and repeatedly in the same interaction.

 

Those are the important terms.  Anyone offended because they aren't called "sir" or "Ma'am" (unless they are a judge or high ranking official) needs to step down off their throne.

[Cruzaholic41]

1 hour ago, ducklite said:

I'm not FROM the south.  I suspect that Navy hears it a lot because he's been surrounded by military types his entire life.  My BIL is a full colonel USAF, and even he doesn't say it outside of work.  It's just not a common thing in the northeast and west coast.

I’m not even from this country. I was born and raised in Communist Cuba. If I understand “sir” and ma’am”, everyone should.  You don’t have to be from a particular area to understand courtesy. 

[ducklite]

5 minutes ago, Cruzaholic41 said:

I’m not even from this country. I was born and raised in Communist Cuba. If I understand “sir” and ma’am”, everyone should.  You don’t have to be from a particular area to understand courtesy. 

 

You don't need to use "sir" or "ma'am" to be courteous.  I'd rather have someone say please and thank you.

[SRF]

On 10/12/2019 at 1:51 PM, ducklite said:

However if the person "reviewing" the documents at DMV is on the take, it doesn't really matter where anything is printed.

 

It would take several people.  The documents are checked at the check in counter.  Then when you present it to the person who really examines them.

 

Then they are scanned into the system.  So there are records of who scanned and said they were all right.  And I am sure there is an additional audit process.

 

So it would have to be at least two at the given DMV, then any number of auditors.

[SRF]

4 hours ago, Aquahound said:

Funny story, I said "thank you ma'am" to a cashier at Target a few days ago and she totally lit up.  She even thanked me for being nice.  It's amazing how 1 simple word has so much influence. But unfortunately, people are starting to lose that vision.  Sad.

 

I smile and say thank you, and talk to the Target (and other) cashiers all the time.  And they smile and speak to me.  Amazing how, if you treat people like human beings, you get treated that way back.

[SRF]

3 hours ago, ducklite said:

But then again I never get a thank you or "you're welcome" after saying thank you to a TSA person.  Heck, I hold a door for someone and don't get a thank you nine time out of ten.  

 

I always smile, ask how their day is going and get a smile and thank you most times.

[ducklite]

8 minutes ago, SRF said:

 

It would take several people.  The documents are checked at the check in counter.  Then when you present it to the person who really examines them.

 

Then they are scanned into the system.  So there are records of who scanned and said they were all right.  And I am sure there is an additional audit process.

 

So it would have to be at least two at the given DMV, then any number of auditors.

Not in Florida.  There is one single person who looks at them.  They aren't scanned into any system. They are never out of your sight.  The person just makes sure you are presenting the requisite number and type of documents, and gives them back.

 

 

[CPT Trips]

5 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

As far as I know there is real time data matching and also data collection, that all goes on behind the scenes and we don't see it.

 

Who records the unique information the is written or encoded on the ID you present to the TSA screener? IME it's only eyeballed.

 

5 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

 

This sure sounds like you think that the airline ticket is all the control needed concerning boarding aircraft.

 

You conveniently missed all my comments about the need for effective physical screenings. I find a lot of the screening techniques, like removing shoes and discarding water bottles unnecessary and ineffective. Yes screening weapons, explosives, and incendiaries is needed, but eyeballing an ID card isn't an element of this screening.

 

Now before anyone jumps on the water bottle example, consider that many European airports use a machine to screen containers of liquids. They ask if you have any liquids, take it to the screening machine, and then return it to you to enjoy in the terminal or on the plane. Quite a contrast to the occasional jetway screenings where people who purchased items to drink are required to "voluntarily surrender" the contents.

[CPT Trips]

6 hours ago, Aquahound said:

I'll be the first to admit that TSA personnel can have a tendency to be rude but I'm certain much of that is in response to the people they deal with.  I can just imagine a person trying to do something good with their life being called an uneducated burger flipper and what that would do to their morale.

 

I fly 3-4 times month and I never have a problem.  But then again, I'm always courteous and always address them as sir or ma'am.  

 

And by the way, all TSA personnel are now trained at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center (FLETC) in Glynco, GA.  

 

TSA screener training may be collocated with the federal law enforcement facility but it is a separate academy solely for training TSA checkpoint screeners. It's two weeks, Monday to Friday. No weapons training, no physical fitness testing, and they do not become sworn LEOs upon completion. 

 

Interesting comparison to NJ State Police Academy runs six months for new hires.

 

A 2018 GAO report (https://www.hsdl.org/?view&did=813529) was rather critical of the TSA training.