Real ID

[George C]

I have the Star on license, wife’s license is not expire next year but she got a reminder from state to renew , we do have passports though . 

[sailing canary]

I've been reading this thread with a certain amount of amusement and incredulity. For those of us who are not US citizens, it seems the process of verifying your US identity is unnecessarily complicated. Just get a passport like the rest of the civilised world does!!! 

We (and I'm not necessarily speaking personally - just ask any European) have passports and have had them since childhood/adolescence even if we're not contemplating immediate foreign travel!!!! 

Why don't Americans do this???

[sparks1093]

3 minutes ago, sailing canary said:

I've been reading this thread with a certain amount of amusement and incredulity. For those of us who are not US citizens, it seems the process of verifying your US identity is unnecessarily complicated. Just get a passport like the rest of the civilised world does!!! 

We (and I'm not necessarily speaking personally - just ask any European) have passports and have had them since childhood/adolescence even if we're not contemplating immediate foreign travel!!!! 

Why don't Americans do this???

Most people in America get by fine with just their drivers license, no need for them to purchase a passport at all. We aren't talking about international air travel but domestic air travel (and entering property under federal jurisdiction). I live 8 miles from an international boundary and don't need a passport to cross it since there are alternatives that may be used.

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, sailing canary said:

I've been reading this thread with a certain amount of amusement and incredulity. For those of us who are not US citizens, it seems the process of verifying your US identity is unnecessarily complicated. Just get a passport like the rest of the civilised world does!!! 

We (and I'm not necessarily speaking personally - just ask any European) have passports and have had them since childhood/adolescence even if we're not contemplating immediate foreign travel!!!! 

Why don't Americans do this???

Europe is about 3.9 million square miles, while that of US is slightly less - but well over 3 million. The US ranges from sub-tropical to almost-Arctic.; with tremendous variety: beaches, mountains, deserts, lakes, prairies, large cities, small farming or fishing communities.  Many US residents see no need to, or likelihood of ever even wanting to, travel internationally.  Most US residents  would have to travel hundreds of miles to just get to the nearest international border, while a good number of Europeans could not go that far without crossing a border.

 

Many just do not see the need for a passport.

 

I have had a passport for decades - and regularly travel internationally - as do most people I know, but a person’s environment and interests will logically dictate their spending;  and the typical US resident just does not have the same environment/interests as the typical European.

[SRF]

7 hours ago, sailing canary said:

I've been reading this thread with a certain amount of amusement and incredulity. For those of us who are not US citizens, it seems the process of verifying your US identity is unnecessarily complicated. Just get a passport like the rest of the civilised world does!!! 

We (and I'm not necessarily speaking personally - just ask any European) have passports and have had them since childhood/adolescence even if we're not contemplating immediate foreign travel!!!! 

Why don't Americans do this???

Because for many Americans, it is a several days drive to exit the country.  You cannot WALK through 3 or 4 countries in a day like Europe, kidding 🙂 , and a friend's daughter and some of her friends, did drive from one country, through another one, to have lunch in a 3rd, and return the same day.

 

And the reason for the issues is, we do not have a national ID card, like most Europeans do. 

 

[ldubs]

1 hour ago, SRF said:

 

And the reason for the issues is, we do not have a national ID card, like most Europeans do. 

 

 

Your comment reminds me that maybe as little as 50 years ago the thought of having to carry a national ID card would have been considered a huge infringement on our liberty.  Times and needs change for sure.   

OK, back to the regularly scheduled programming.  😁

[clo]

12 hours ago, sailing canary said:

I've been reading this thread with a certain amount of amusement and incredulity. For those of us who are not US citizens, it seems the process of verifying your US identity is unnecessarily complicated. Just get a passport like the rest of the civilised world does!!! 

We (and I'm not necessarily speaking personally - just ask any European) have passports and have had them since childhood/adolescence even if we're not contemplating immediate foreign travel!!!! 

Why don't Americans do this???

I don't know this but am guessing 'Americans' may fly domestically more than Europeans do.  ???  My passport won't fit in my wallet so I have to find a 'special' place for it in my handbag.  It seems safer to have the REAL ID.  Just a guess.  My youngest grand got his passport when he was about a year old.  Sick and crying.  Not a great photo )

[clo]

4 hours ago, SRF said:

Because for many Americans, it is a several days drive to exit the country.  You cannot WALK through 3 or 4 countries in a day like Europe, kidding 🙂 , and a friend's daughter and some of her friends, did drive from one country, through another one, to have lunch in a 3rd, and return the same day.

 

And the reason for the issues is, we do not have a national ID card, like most Europeans do. 

 

Oops, I didn't read your reply.  Pretty much the same.

[CPT Trips]

4 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

Your comment reminds me that maybe as little as 50 years ago the thought of having to carry a national ID card would have been considered a huge infringement on our liberty.  Times and needs change for sure.   

OK, back to the regularly scheduled programming.  😁

 

Times have changed for sure and it's been a lot less than 50 years. It's the residual fear of a national identity card's effect on the perception of lost Liberty (and personal privacy) that led to the proxy for it - REALID. 

 

Here's the next step in the erosion of privacy. https://www.nextgov.com/emerging-tech/2019/10/lawmaker-tsa-should-halt-facial-recognition-programs-absent-formal-policies/160685/

Edited October 19, 2019 by CPT Trips

[sailing canary]

10 hours ago, clo said:

I don't know this but am guessing 'Americans' may fly domestically more than Europeans do.  ???  My passport won't fit in my wallet so I have to find a 'special' place for it in my handbag.  It seems safer to have the REAL ID.  Just a guess.  My youngest grand got his passport when he was about a year old.  Sick and crying.  Not a great photo )

When you say 'domestically' do you mean solely within each European country? Because living in the UK (or any other European country) means we can travel for instance from the UK/France/Germany/wherever to Spain/Portugal/Germany  for a long weekend and we really don't consider that as international travel. International travel would be from Europe to somewhere outside Europe.

And we do travel domestically within our 'own' countries. We invented low cost budget airlines!! My passport fits in my shirt pocket - how big is yours?

[Lutèce]

20 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Europe is about 3.9 million square miles, while that of US is slightly less - but well over 3 million. The US ranges from sub-tropical to almost-Arctic.; with tremendous variety: beaches, mountains, deserts, lakes, prairies, large cities, small farming or fishing communities.  Many US residents see no need to, or likelihood of ever even wanting to, travel internationally.  Most US residents  would have to travel hundreds of miles to just get to the nearest international border, while a good number of Europeans could not go that far without crossing a border.

 

Many just do not see the need for a passport.

 

I have had a passport for decades - and regularly travel internationally - as do most people I know, but a person’s environment and interests will logically dictate their spending;  and the typical US resident just does not have the same environment/interests as the typical European.

I find this very interesting. Although I agree (having visited the US many times) that there is an amazing diversity of temperature/fauna/flora within the US, there is a certain - not sure how to put this without causing offence - ignorance ( in the proper sense of the word meaning not-knowing) about the world outside the USA As an example, we were once in rural Arizona and went into a bank to change some UK banknotes to US. The teller had no idea what we were giving them and had to be told to turn over the bank note to recognise the Queen on the other side - therefore proving it was a legal banknote.

And somewhere - I forget where exactly, but I think rural Colorado, we were asked if we had driven there from England! Absolutely no idea there was a bit of water called the Atlantic between the UK where we started our journey and Colorado where we currently were!

It really worries me that people like these can vote!

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, Lutèce said:

I find this very interesting. Although I agree (having visited the US many times) that there is an amazing diversity of temperature/fauna/flora within the US, there is a certain - not sure how to put this without causing offence - ignorance ( in the proper sense of the word meaning not-knowing) about the world outside the USA As an example, we were once in rural Arizona and went into a bank to change some UK banknotes to US. The teller had no idea what we were giving them and had to be told to turn over the bank note to recognise the Queen on the other side - therefore proving it was a legal banknote.

And somewhere - I forget where exactly, but I think rural Colorado, we were asked if we had driven there from England! Absolutely no idea there was a bit of water called the Atlantic between the UK where we started our journey and Colorado where we currently were!

It really worries me that people like these can vote!

I agree that there are plenty of uninformed people in the US - one theory is that, at the moment of the “Big Bang” which started everything, there was a finite amount of intelligence created:  which necessarily means that, as the human population grows, the intelligence must be spread more thinly.

 

But, seriously:  should a junior employee in a rural community be expected to know every foreign currency - perhaps even specifically being aware of when tthe old style 5 GBP notes stopped being legal tender?

 

 And I would not judge the UK’s population intelligence level from an encounter I had with a number of Tottenham Hotspur supporters I had while riding London Transport’s Piccadilly Line from Cockfosters into central London.

[LHT28]

2 hours ago, sailing canary said:

When you say 'domestically' do you mean solely within each European country? Because living in the UK (or any other European country) means we can travel for instance from the UK/France/Germany/wherever to Spain/Portugal/Germany  for a long weekend and we really don't consider that as international travel. I

 

Can you travel  to Spain/Portugal  without a passport ?

 

[ilikeanswers]

2 hours ago, Lutèce said:

I find this very interesting. Although I agree (having visited the US many times) that there is an amazing diversity of temperature/fauna/flora within the US, there is a certain - not sure how to put this without causing offence - ignorance ( in the proper sense of the word meaning not-knowing) about the world outside the USA As an example, we were once in rural Arizona and went into a bank to change some UK banknotes to US. The teller had no idea what we were giving them and had to be told to turn over the bank note to recognise the Queen on the other side - therefore proving it was a legal banknote.

And somewhere - I forget where exactly, but I think rural Colorado, we were asked if we had driven there from England! Absolutely no idea there was a bit of water called the Atlantic between the UK where we started our journey and Colorado where we currently were!

It really worries me that people like these can vote!

 

Reminded me of this story:

New Mexico Resident's ID Temporarily Rejected as 'Foreign' By D.C. Clerk

 

Years ago I heard domestic flights would reject driver licences from the "District of Columbia" because they thought it was a foreign country😝.

 

My favourite was was talking to a fellow Aussie who was telling me about how she spends most of her travelling returning to the island of Bali. I made a passing comment of her passport being full of Indonesian Visas (this was back when you still got a visa in your passport at the airport). She gave me this weird look and asked "why would I have an Indonesian visa?" I said "you told me you visit Bali" her response "what has Bali got to do with Indonesia?"😳😂.

[clo]

5 hours ago, Lutèce said:

It really worries me that people like these can vote!

I've met countless non-Americans who've never heard of Oregon (where we used to live).  So when asked where we lived  I eventually just started saying "north of California.'

[sailing canary]

No we do need passports to fly to Spain/ Portugal. My point is it's not seen as a big deal to have a passport any more than having a driving licence.

[sailing canary]

4 hours ago, clo said:

I've met countless non-Americans who've never heard of Oregon (where we used to live).  So when asked where we lived  I eventually just started saying "north of California.'

 

To be fair, that's not the same as knowing where a whole country is. I doubt if any non-Brits would know where Sutherland, Northumberland or Clwyd are (and probably lots of English wouldn't know either!)😀

[2wheelin]

10 minutes ago, sailing canary said:

No we do need passports to fly to Spain/ Portugal. My point is it's not seen as a big deal to have a passport any more than having a driving licence.

The point is you can’t go a great distance without a passport so are much more likely to need one. We can go from New York to Hawaii or Florida to Alaska with a DL

[CPT Trips]

3 hours ago, sailing canary said:

No we do need passports to fly to Spain/ Portugal. My point is it's not seen as a big deal to have a passport any more than having a driving licence.

 

Would you need a passport if the travel was by train? By car? Would your id be checked as a matter of routine on either of those trips?

[clo]

On 10/18/2019 at 5:13 AM, sparks1093 said:

I live 8 miles from an international boundary and don't need a passport to cross it since there are alternatives that may be used.

Are you talking about entering Canada?  I was positive that one does now need a passport.  (Or a NEXUS card.)

[sailing canary]

2 hours ago, CPT Trips said:

 

Would you need a passport if the travel was by train? By car? Would your id be checked as a matter of routine on either of those trips?

 

You would go through a form of passport control regardless of your means of transport. If going from the UK to, for example Spain, you would have to show your passport at the departure airport, the departure train station (yes we can go all the way to Spain by rail) or on boarding the ferry. ID is ALWAYS checked.

[ldubs]

Slight detour here:  Just this past September we took 6 different train trips between Italy and Switzerland.  We didn't worry that we were not asked for a passport.  The head scratcher for us is not even once were we asked for a ticket.   These were all regional trains.  

 

 

[sparks1093]

8 hours ago, clo said:

Are you talking about entering Canada?  I was positive that one does now need a passport.  (Or a NEXUS card.)

Yes, Canada is 8 miles from my door and I don't need a passport since alternatives are available. We can also use a passport card or an EDL. We opted for the EDL since it's one less document to carry even though in the long run it is a little more expensive. The only time we take our passports with us is when we fly out of Montreal.

[SRF]

17 hours ago, sailing canary said:

No we do need passports to fly to Spain/ Portugal. My point is it's not seen as a big deal to have a passport any more than having a driving licence.

 

But you need your national ID  card.  As you are going from non-Schengen to Schengen.

[SRF]

9 hours ago, ldubs said:

Slight detour here:  Just this past September we took 6 different train trips between Italy and Switzerland.  We didn't worry that we were not asked for a passport.  The head scratcher for us is not even once were we asked for a ticket.   These were all regional trains.  

 

Because both Italy and Switzerland are Schengen states.

 

Train from France to UK would require ID check, as UK is not Schengen.