PRINCESS SHIPS & CORONA VIRUS

[Germancruiser]

Moeve- I totaly and absolutley agree. Of course I feel sorry for those confinded in the inside cabins- sometimes up to four people per cabin, but as you so aptly said- still more confortable and MORE PRIVAT then those makeshift camps or so such things! I am following the whole situation closely - even though my next voyage starts in late April. Nobody knows at this point when this Corona Virus situation runs itself out!

I really really have to applaud Princess Cruises for the manner they handle this - for all- extreme situation. 

[BermudaBound2014]

15 minutes ago, Moeve said:

@ those suggesting the US evacuate US citizens prior to the end of the quarantine get a😫 ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MINDS!?!? from me. That is the whole idea of quarantine to stop the spread.

we might be testing US protocol sooner than later. 12 Chinese nationals are currently in isolation headed to Bayonne New Jersey. Apparently showing signs Of respiratory issues. awaiting Coronavirus testing. scheduled to debark today (2/7).
 

Article is vague- but alarming to me (If true)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2020/02/06/cruise-ship-set-to-dock-in-bayonne-will-test-12-passengers-for-coronavirus/amp/

[seapals2]

latest from David Abel .. passenger onboard Diamond Princess doing live video clips.  
 

https://m.facebook.com/david.abel.75
 

Passengers have now been issued with thermometers to keep a check on their temperature, fever being a first symptom of the virus.  

[BermudaBound2014]

4 minutes ago, seapals2 said:

latest from David Abel .. passenger onboard Diamond Princess doing live video clips.  
 

https://m.facebook.com/david.abel.75
 

Passengers have now been issued with thermometers to keep a check on their temperature, fever being a first symptom of the virus.  

And gloves have been added. One of David’s table mates has tested positive and been removed from the ship. 

[TrixieBel]

9 hours ago, npcl said:

The passengers are isolated from each other, restricted to cabins or when allowed on deck kept atleast 3 feet apart, no touching, no gathering in groups etc.  Basically it is isolation procedures, under the control of the Ministry of Health and Welfare.

Two words: air conditioning... 😱🤷🏻‍♀️

[seapals2]

10 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

And gloves have been added. One of David’s table mates has tested positive and been removed from the ship. 

Yes gloves for use should they go outside of the cabin.  To be honest I wouldn’t risk it.  They have a balcony for fresh air and it’s very cold on deck.  A lift only for the use of elderly but that would put them in much closer contact.  
Doesn’t seem that any of the latest victims are crew which is good news as they are not in quarantine.  My worry would be who has had contact with the food preparation and delivery.  It obviously can’t all be prepackaged and sterile.  

[seapals2]

2 minutes ago, TrixieBel said:

Two words: air conditioning... 😱🤷🏻‍♀️

Yes .. I thought that too.  David is in a balcony cabin and as temperatures are low he could turn off the air and rely just on fresh air.  Temperatures are quite cold though and no doubt the same system delivers the heating.  
scientists will be keeping that as a factor ... this will be an ideal opportunity for them to monitor how the virus is spread.  I doubt these passengers will just go home without further monitoring.  

[Earthworm Jim]

10 hours ago, Pushka said:

I cannot imagine Japan letting any non citizens disembark at the end of 14 days and those citizens that do would I expect, go into another mainland isolation facility. 
 

The issue is where can Diamond port next? No one will take them. There is a lot more story to unfold. 

 

If Japan wasn't going to let them disembark, why would they have gone through the quarantine process? If they were ultimately going to send them away they would have just done that from the start. Presumably, the 14 day quarantine is what is being required in order to for passengers and crew to be allowed to disembark.

[BermudaBound2014]

2 minutes ago, seapals2 said:

Yes gloves for use should they go outside of the cabin.  To be honest I wouldn’t risk it.  They have a balcony for fresh air and it’s very cold on deck.  A lift only for the use of elderly but that would put them in much closer contact.  
Doesn’t seem that any of the latest victims are crew which is good news as they are not in quarantine.  My worry would be who has had contact with the food preparation and delivery.  It obviously can’t all be prepackaged and sterile.  

 

did you see the video from the diamond princess crew member on fb? I couldn’t understand most (language) but he wasn’t happy.

 

meanwhile, looks like anthem of the seas in bayonne is having some issues. National news has picked up this story- https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7977547/amp/Sick-passengers-board-New-Jersey-bound-cruise-ship-tested-coronavirus.html

 

 

[seapals2]

5 minutes ago, TrixieBel said:

Two words: air conditioning... 😱🤷🏻‍♀️

Yes .. I thought that too.  David is in a balcony cabin and as temperatures are low he could turn off the air and rely just on fresh air.  Temperatures are quite cold though and no doubt the same system delivers the heating.  
scientists will be keeping that as a factor ... this will be an ideal opportunity for them to monitor how the virus is spread.  I doubt these passengers will just go home without further monitoring.  

[Esprit]

9 minutes ago, TrixieBel said:

Two words: air conditioning... 😱🤷🏻‍♀️

 

The virus can't be spread through air conditioning. Me thinks "Project Fear"!

[TrixieBel]

6 minutes ago, Esprit said:

 

The virus can't be spread through air conditioning. Me thinks "Project Fear"!

I hope you are right... Is there any evidence as yet that anyone understands all of its mechanisms of transfer??? 

[Earthworm Jim]

10 hours ago, npcl said:

No if they cancel they refund.  If they don't cancel normal penalty policy exists.

 

I'm no lawyer, but the wording of Princess' passage contract makes me question that:

 

You shall have no claim against Carrier, and Carrier shall not be liable for damages or a refund of the Cruise fare, any portion thereof, or other refund, payment, compensation or credit of any kind; nor for hotel or meal charges, travel expenses or other loss, delay, inconvenience, disappointment or expense whatsoever, which shall be the Passenger's responsibility, whenever the cancellation or change was beyond Carrier's exclusive control. Carrier's non liability extends without limitation to any of those causes described in Section 14(b) and/or inclement weather; health, medical or environmental considerations...

 

Section 14(b) referred to above reads:

 

(B) Acts Beyond Carrier's Control, Force Majeure: Carrier is not liable for death, injury, illness, damage, delay or other loss to person or property of any kind caused by an Act of God; war; civil commotions; labor trouble; terrorism, crime or other potential sources of harm; governmental interference; perils of the sea; fire; seizure or arrest of the vessel; the need to render medical or other assistance, or any other cause beyond Carrier's exclusive control, or any other act or omission not shown to be caused by Carrier's negligence.

 

(Underlining mine)

 

I read that as they wouldn't have to pay if they were forced to cancel due to the virus. Though they could of course decide to give some compensation anyway even if not obligated.

[Wendy-Europe]

I'm not sure if the members asking for a military hospital ship are aware here that the American government is charging the travelers for all costs incurred by return transport or quarantine. So the Americans who were flown out of Wuhan had to pay $1100 for the flight. Also the costs for quarantine are charged to their insurance companies - if available. It is certainly more comfortable to be on a cruise ship where the shipping company takes care of everything than on a ship of the army. And what it costs to send a hospital ship of the US Army to Japan - complete with a professional crew - and back again - nobody on board could pay for it when the bill comes!

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/02/04/health/federal-quarantine-what-it-means-coronavirus-trnd/index.html

 

"Who foots the bill for this?

If a person has health insurance, the CDC will bill their insurance provider for costs of care delivered during quarantine, according to Hodge. So depending on their insurance coverage, a person could be responsible for some or all of those costs.

During the public comment period for HHS' latest rule on quarantine regulations, which went into effect in 2017, a flight attendant union argued that the federal government should pay for any medical costs incurred by flight attendants in quarantine. But HHS rejected the suggestion.

"... While it is not HHS/CDC's intent to unduly burden individuals with the costs of their own isolation or quarantine, payment for expenses will be made consistent with constitutional and ethical obligations to provide for the basic necessities, e.g., food, medical treatment, for those subject to such public health orders," the department said in its final rule.

For those who are deemed unable to afford health insurance, the government will pick up the tab but Hodge said it might outsource some of those costs to programs like Medicaid when possible.

Evans told CNN that the evacuees at March Air Reserve Base will be billed for their evacuation flight. He doesn't know what other evacuees are being charged, but he said that his own bill is for $1,100. And once the quarantine is up, he said everyone will have to pay their own way to their final destination."

[Moeve]

I bet the Americans will do exactly the same - quarantine the whole ship, extract the already sick and test them, if positive and monitor those with direct contact with testing.

 

There is simply no other way to protect the rest of your population. In some cases humans just cannot be trusted to do as told so you simply have to enforce it. Imagine letting 5.000 people off a cruise ship with instructions to home quarantine and just 1% doesn’t feel they need to comply. Never mind the fact that the vast majority doesn’t live at the port and needs to get home somehow. That is simply not a viable choice,

[Wendy-Europe]

You only need to read here what the members write about the quarantine: that they would not be hindered if they wanted to visit family members in another cabin. That is the reason why there are also personnel on the ship who make sure that the quarantine is observed. Because there are ALWAYS people who believe they are above the rules and the law.

[jessandarnie]

3 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

I suspect part of why they are confined can be explained below- the 61 “others” represent those on diamond princess (Japan doesn’t want them included in their data)-

 

 

 

 

 

[jessandarnie]

Indonesia does not Have any figures  on any cases. They have THE highest number of Chinese tourists in all of Asia. But They do not yet have the ability to test. Amazing ah?

 

this comment does not relate to this Princess Forum, but is worthwhile mentioning.

[OzKiwiJJ]

4 hours ago, dog said:

From what I have read everyone on the Diamond have not been tested. Today they are all taking their own temperatures in cabins. 

They were all tested initially before the quarantine started, that's how they identified the 273 people for further testing. Now they are riding out the quarantine hoping that they will not develop symptoms (apparently a high temperature is one of the first to appear) during the 14 days. They have all been issued with thermometers to check their temperatures regularly and are expected to call the medical centre if they notice any rise in temperature.

[ilikeanswers]

1 hour ago, Wendy-Europe said:

I'm not sure if the members asking for a military hospital ship are aware here that the American government is charging the travelers for all costs incurred by return transport or quarantine. So the Americans who were flown out of Wuhan had to pay $1100 for the flight. Also the costs for quarantine are charged to their insurance companies - if available. It is certainly more comfortable to be on a cruise ship where the shipping company takes care of everything than on a ship of the army. And what it costs to send a hospital ship of the US Army to Japan - complete with a professional crew - and back again - nobody on board could pay for it when the bill comes!

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/02/04/health/federal-quarantine-what-it-means-coronavirus-trnd/index.html

 

The Australian governement wanted to charge the Wuhan evacuees $1000 dollars each but the public outcry made them reverse that decision and the government will now foot the whole bill for the flights from Wuhan to Australia to CI, quarantine on CI and when quarantine finishes flights to Perth. Qantas has offered the evacuees free flights from Perth to their home cities.

[OzKiwiJJ]

1 hour ago, TrixieBel said:

Two words: air conditioning... 😱🤷🏻‍♀️

🙄🙄🙄

 

How many times does it have to be said that this virus is not spread by airborne particles, unless someone is directly sneezed or coughed on at close range. The particles are too heavy to be airborne so settle on any available surface and picked up by someone touching that surface and then touching their face or eating with their hands without washing them first. 

Edited February 7, 2020 by OzKiwiJJ

[OzKiwiJJ]

s

2 hours ago, Moeve said:

@ those suggesting the US evacuate US citizens prior to the end of the quarantine get a😫 ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MINDS!?!? from me. That is the whole idea of quarantine to stop the spread! Right now these people are comfortable and as safe as they are going to be - even if they can’t see that way right now. Believe it or not a cruise ship stateroom is more comfortable than any army barracks or any makeshift confinement area.

 

Besides it would not be allowed. The ship is actually under the control of the Japanese health authorities and the US  would not be allowed to extract their citizens before the quarantine was over.

 

[OzKiwiJJ]

1 hour ago, TrixieBel said:

I hope you are right... Is there any evidence as yet that anyone understands all of its mechanisms of transfer??? 

Several virus experts have commented on possible method of transfer and airborne through air-con systems is not one of those. Plus I think ships air-cons have efficient filters but would like confirmation of that - where's chengkp75 when you need him? 

[paphoslady]

9 minutes ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

They were all tested initially before the quarantine started, that's how they identified the 273 people for further testing. Now they are riding out the quarantine hoping that they will not develop symptoms (apparently a high temperature is one of the first to appear) during the 14 days. They have all been issued with thermometers to check their temperatures regularly and are expected to call the medical centre if they notice any rise in temperature.

Not sure they were all tested, I haven't heard David Abel say that he has been tested.

From reports that I have read its coughing that is the main way that this virus is spread!

Not sure about it being transmitted via air conditioning either. The virus will only survive a relatively short time outside its host on a surface. Air conditioning systems often have filters which you would think would remove droplets.

[OzKiwiJJ]

2 hours ago, Germancruiser said:

I really really have to applaud Princess Cruises for the manner they handle this - for all- extreme situation. 

Yes, Princess seem to be doing an amazing job under the conditions given they are working under the control of the Japanese health authorities. Plus their compensation for cancelled cruises is excellent, far better than some of the other cruise lines that are also cancelling and changing itineraries.