Diamond Princess passenger "tested positive for Wuhan coronavirus"

[kathy49]

I was catching up and couple that were doing videos from their cabin showing how they and their neighbors had open arrangement between two cabins...well four traveled together...one couple got on the flight...we must have been one of the passengers they took with the virus and he is now in Nebraska...wife is quarantine nearby and is not positive (yet)...then other couple she is in hospital in Japan and husband is in quarantine in US.  I mean what a mess. Those 14 that were positive should never have gotten on that flight and there is not much political debate on this one. I think those coming down with symptoms from the flight to US will continue. A vacation to remember for this group...all of whom are seniors and this is very serious.

Edited February 23, 2020 by kathy49

[fragilek]

6 minutes ago, kathy49 said:

I was catching up and couple that were doing videos from their cabin showing how they and their neighbors had open arrangement between two cabins...well at least one is in hospital with the virus...not sure about the others.I could not understand how they thought that was a good idea.

 There were several cases like this- These were all documented/photographed or videoed by the people doing it and posted on their on twitter or face books- 

Banana passed down balconies

food swapped from one room to another 

Banner held out across balconies

Family from 2 different rooms hugging when they met on deck

 The one below was a photo in the press

Face masks off and hanging down  on the buses to airport

Edited February 23, 2020 by fragilek

[kathy49]

1 minute ago, fragilek said:

 There were several cases like this- These were all documented/photographed or videoed by the people doing it and posted on their on twitter or face books- 

Banana passed down balconies

food swapped from one room to another 

Banner held out across balconies

Family from 2 different rooms hugging when they met on deck

 The one below was a photo in the press

Face masks off and hanging down  on the buses to airport

i watched some of that "walking on balcony" and cringed....and all the time all of this was going on crew (many of whom had the virus) were preparing and serving meals. I just don't know how anyone could have expected a good outcome. Princess are doing all possible to help those still in  Japan etc.and the reality is while we hear some of the great stories about getting phones to David Abel etc. many must be just furious to not have been let off that ship on day one and probably never have gotten the virus.

[Colo Cruiser]

13 minutes ago, kathy49 said:

I was catching up and couple that were doing videos from their cabin showing how they and their neighbors had open arrangement between two cabins...well four traveled together...one couple got on the flight...we must have been one of the passengers they took with the virus and he is now in Nebraska...wife is quarantine nearby and is not positive (yet)...then other couple she is in hospital in Japan and husband is in quarantine in US.

How do you know this?  

[kathy49]

Because I have been following their facebook https://www.facebook.com/khtsradio/?__tn__=%2CdkC-R&eid=ARDdJloVT_d1DdN91oRpBGD4fuyXCRfoDZtxdr6z9IEyawJeU-dBgYtMOLMJ777EqAwJx20hI-QrRVpp&hc_ref=ARQKjZDTXs24ldZ-lbK25AIy_Cm4vC7n4Pu1RbnGQgOyDN3k3M6WnN91lUMvxXoVJIQ

 

It is all there. They even joked about the masks.....the spouses have not tested positive yet and hopefully they do not...

[Stateroom_Sailor]

 

3 hours ago, glam mistress said:

Now this:

 

 

 

It must be stressful to see this rise in crew numbers.  Hopefully the ship will have enough people in the engine room and bridge to get the ship to dry dock.  No one would want to be assigned to this ship before decontamination.

 

A summary of events so far:

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-diamond-princess-cruise-ship-coronavirus-quarantine-went-wrong-2020-2

[npcl]

8 hours ago, hal2008 said:

 

"If Japan was not willing" is a long stretch just to justify decisions of unprofessionals in the admistration to overrule professional CDC experts.

 

Japan had already taken 600+ people in hospitals. Both before and after. There is no reasonable rationalization to believe that they will oddly refuse only this 14 people. "Paperwork was already done" is a very weak excuse against possibility of exposing so many other US citizens.

 

Most probably delay was not in negotiating with Japan and then losing that negotiation but in arguing with CDC and then overruling them.

 

 

however in this case there was an agreed upon list and custody transferred. from a technical point of view it would require japan to accept modifying the list, and taking the passengers back into their custody. a considerably different situation then taking care of those already in their custody. The Japanese are very strict when it come to agreements and protocol.

[cruiserchuck]

It is being reported that 4 of the 32 passengers evacuated to the UK have now tested positive.  

[gvre]

Do you think Princess has insurance to cover their losses from the Diamond Princess or are they self-insured?

[kathy49]

Well I am certain they have insurance through many professional associations etc. however given the issues travelers have had regarding coverage for "epidemic" I would be interested in experts' knowledge of whether their coverage provides for this eventuality?  This is not only a major impact on princess but really the cruise industry in general. There will be some real bargains in the next month and probably close to a year lost in the Asia market.

[K.T.B.]

18 hours ago, caribill said:

 

If the ship passengers here are allowed to mingle with each other, this is less of a quarantine than was on the ship when they were restricted to their cabins.

 

It was a quarantine, not isolation.

 

The quarantine was to keep the people on board, not essentially keep them away from each other while on board.

[em-sk]

2 minutes ago, K.T.B. said:

 

It was a quarantine, not isolation.

 

The quarantine was to keep the people on board, not essentially keep them away from each other while on board.

 

They were trying to do both.  

 

If they were only trying to quarantine the ship as a whole they would not have restricted passengers to their cabin. 

[cruiserchuck]

7 minutes ago, gvre said:

Do you think Princess has insurance to cover their losses from the Diamond Princess or are they self-insured?

 

They are self-insured for loss of business.  They appear to have insurance for most other losses.  Here is a quote from Carnival's most recent annual financial filing regarding insurance:

 

XVIII. Insurance
a. General

We maintain insurance to cover a number of risks associated with owning and operating our vessels and other non-ship related risks. All such insurance policies are subject to coverage limits, exclusions and deductible levels. Insurance premiums are dependent on our own loss experience and the general premium requirements of our insurers. We maintain certain levels of deductibles for substantially all the below-mentioned coverages. We may increase our deductibles to mitigate future premium increases. We do not carry coverage related to loss of earnings or revenues from our ships or other operations.

b. Protection and Indemnity (“P&I”) Coverages

Liabilities, costs and expenses for illness and injury to crew, guest injury, pollution and other third party claims in connection with our cruise activities are covered by our P&I clubs, which are mutual indemnity associations owned by ship owners.

We are members of three P&I clubs, Gard, Steamship Mutual and UK Club, which are part of a worldwide group of 13 P&I clubs, known as the International Group of P&I Clubs (the “IG”). The IG insures directly, and through broad and established reinsurance markets, a large portion of the world’s shipping fleets. Coverage is subject to the P&I clubs’ rules and the limits of coverage are determined by the IG.

c. Hull and Machinery Insurance

We maintain insurance on the hull and machinery of each of our ships for reasonable amounts as determined by management. The coverage for hull and machinery is provided by large and well-established international marine insurers. Insurers make it a condition for insurance coverage that a ship be certified as “in class” by a classification society that is a member of the International Association of Classification Societies (“IACS”). All of our ships are routinely inspected and certified to be in class by an IACS member.

d. War Risk Insurance

We use a combination of insurance and self-insurance to cover war risk for legal liability to crew, guests and other third parties as well as loss or damage to our vessels arising from war or war-like actions. Our primary war risk insurance coverage is provided by international marine insurers and our excess war risk insurance is provided by our three P&I clubs. Under the terms of our war risk insurance coverage, which are typical for war risk policies in the marine industry, insurers can give us seven days’ notice that the insurance policies will be canceled. However, the policies can be reinstated at different premium rates.

e. Other Insurance

We maintain property insurance covering our shoreside assets and casualty insurance covering liabilities to third parties arising from our hotel and transportation business, shore excursion operations and shoreside operations, including our port and related commercial facilities. We also maintain worker’s compensation, director’s and officer’s liability and other insurance coverages.

[kathy49]

8 minutes ago, K.T.B. said:

 

It was a quarantine, not isolation.

 

The quarantine was to keep the people on board, not essentially keep them away from each other while on board.

i think conventional wisdom would say it was two fold...to keep them apart from the country of Japan and its citizens...and secondly to keep them from each other ie to not spread the virus on board. failure.

[fragilek]

3 minutes ago, kathy49 said:

i think conventional wisdom would say it was two fold...to keep them apart from the country of Japan and its citizens...and secondly to keep them from each other ie to not spread the virus on board. failure.

Agreed - Yes obviously the main objective was quarantine, however, if i wasn't also a target to stop spread on the ship - why bother with masks, cabin confinement, deck schedules etc. They were attempting to do both but I think completely underestimated how infectious this virus is, the data (from China) they had to go on was unreliable at best.

[phil the brit]

https://www.state.gov/joint-statement-by-u-s-department-of-state-and-u-s-department-of-health-and-human-services-on-repatriation-of-american-passengers-from-the-diamond-princess-cruise-ship/

 

Scroll right down to full transcript at the bottom and read questions from various media. They were only allowed to ask one question each and not allowed any comebacks.

This is going to blow up, one of the most pertinant questions was how long were (known) infected people sitting on the busses with non infected people. The answer was "there was a 40 minute ride to the airport and busses were emptied as soon as it was safe to do so".

THAT WAS NOT THE QUESTION, HOW LONG WERE BOTH INFECTED AND NOT INFECTED PEOPLE ON THE BUSSES MIXED UP?

This was NOT answered...............It WILL be asked again I am sure.

[JennAngel9]

I understand there are a lot of people passionate here about mixing "infected" and "non-infected" people on the planes and I would obviously prefer they not have been mixed-- but I feel we are missing the forest for the trees here-- several people who actually had negative tests on those planes whether US, Canada, Australia, and of course a few now in general disembarkation, would quickly change from "healthy" to officially infected within a day or two and were also (likely) spreading the disease at that time. 

 

Reference: https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1231613278880718848?s=20

The only way to avoid it entirely would be to just leave more people to catch CV on the ship and not evacuate at all or potentially to put everyone in their own biohazard suit before traveling? I don't know how feasible that would be.

Edited February 23, 2020 by JennAngel9
Adding data

[sgmn]

52 minutes ago, cruiserchuck said:

It is being reported that 4 of the 32 passengers evacuated to the UK have now tested positive.  

Yeap, just heard this on the BBC radio news. They only arrived back in UK yesterday 

[em-sk]

8 minutes ago, JennAngel9 said:

I understand there are a lot of people passionate here about mixing "infected" and "non-infected" people on the planes and I would obviously prefer they not have been mixed-- but I feel we are missing the forest for the trees here-- several people who actually had negative tests on those planes whether US, Canada, Australia, and of course a few now in general disembarkation, would quickly change from "healthy" to officially infected within a day or two and were also (likely) spreading the disease at that time.

The only way to avoid it entirely would be to just leave more people to catch CV on the ship and not evacuate at all or potentially to put everyone in their own biohazard suit before traveling? I don't know how feasible that would be.

 

They clearly struggled with getting everyone to use a mask correctly. 

 

The biohazard suits are far more complex to put on.  Over a 10+ hour flight with people needing to go to the washroom or eat it would be extremely complex. 

[voljeep]

38 minutes ago, rich_cathybrock said:

 

Does anyone know how many pax and crew remain onboard as of now?  Princess' has not posted an update to their page since Feb 20th, which covered commencement of the general disembarkation.  

the question should be why are ANY passengers still on board ????

[rich_cathybrock]

@JennAngel9I agree wholeheartedly.  I cannot imagine being one of the "unlucky 14", getting all the way to the plane, and being told I had to be removed.  I keep thinking it was terribly "convenient" for those results to be made known to the US gov't only after they took custody of them.  Either way, at the point this was discovered, the exposure had already transpired on that bus and the only humane thing to do at that point was bring them all home, and I, for one, wouldn't have had that play out any other way, since they are now isolated here, and there have been no reports of others in the facilities where the US pax are quarantined getting sick, which I take as a positive sign.

 

Now Italy is having a surge and meantime, we still don't know where everyone who got off Diamond is headed, nor how many remain onboard.  In ~ 2 weeks, those who did disembark on their own are presumably to be tested and, if cleared, can return home.   That, if 2 weeks is even enough time....

 

This is a mess.   Boarding the Anthem a week from today, and on Majestic in Sydney in Jan of 2020.

 

[rich_cathybrock]

https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/health-environment/article/3051845/could-coronavirus-crisis-sink-cruise-industry  An interesting look at the reaction to potential infection in the ports visited by DP before the quarantine.

 

[bluesea321]

16 minutes ago, rich_cathybrock said:

...we still don't know where everyone who got off Diamond is headed, nor how many remain onboard.  In ~ 2 weeks, those who did disembark on their own are presumably to be tested and, if cleared, can return home. 

 

Can you or anyone give me a source for the "presumably will be tested"?  I know they are banned from returning to the US prior to March 4 (at the earliest) but I have not been able to verify that a COVID-19 retest is being demanded. Hope they don't just test temperature, it is better than nothing but not reliable.

[JennAngel9]

3 minutes ago, bluesea321 said:

 

Can you or anyone give me a source for the "presumably will be tested"?  I know they are banned from returning to the US prior to March 4 (at the earliest) but I have not been able to verify that a COVID-19 retest is being demanded. Hope they don't just test temperature, it is better than nothing but not reliable.

The prominent American gentleman who is out proudly touring and dining around Tokyo said he was told that the US government will tell him what else he needs to do at the end of 14 days.

Frankly, it will probably depend how much worse the situation in Japan is in another 10 days.

[rich_cathybrock]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2020/02/21/coronavirus-diamond-princess-cruise-evacuees-test-positive-nebraska/4829248002/

"However, more than 100 American passengers elected to finish their quarantine on the ship rather than leave on one of last weekend's evacuation flights. According to a letter from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, they must remain symptom-free and continue to test negative for two weeks before re-entering the United States." 

 

I believe this was also cited in one of the letters delivered to pax onboard from CDC prior to disembarkation.  I can't imagine how this gets managed, but assume it would be coordinated with Princess' team who are arranging flights home for everyone.  Since US is requiring a negative test to clear pax whose passports are now flagged, they probably need a negative test to fly.