Diamond Princess passenger "tested positive for Wuhan coronavirus"

[bluesea321]

6 minutes ago, seapals2 said:

The ship is like a floating mini city with the highest numbers of confirmed cases outside of China.  

 

And the highest infection rate in the world, 6% and counting.

https://time.com/5783451/covid-19-princess-diamond-cruise-ship/

[2wheelin]

9 hours ago, teamflames said:

Yes, absolutely an opinion. I was putting myself in their position, on a ship where the number infected is approaching 10%. Where more cases continue to be detected. Outside of China no such spread has been found. 

So I stand by my personal opinion that if I were not infected I would take an option to move to a new facility away from that ship.

The quarantine is not for the benefit of those onboard, it is not trying to stop the infection around the ship, it is to stop the infection getting off the ship, so hence I would want off the ship.

Absolutely no judgment on those who would prefer to stay.

But you would not know for sure that you were not infected until the end of the quarantine/incubation period. Testing done too early can be negative and become positive later. And if you were truly not infected, why move to another quarantine facility?

If the quarantine is not for the benefit of those onboard, and not trying to stop infection on the ship (absolutely ridiculous statement) why confine to cabins and separate people. Sure, it will stop all the infected from going ashore but do you think they are just keeping everyone on the ship until everyone gets it? If they were not trying to stop it on the ship, there would be no quarantine. They would want it to spread as quickly as possible.

6 hours ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

You obviously don't understand what an incubation period is. To put it simply it is the time between a person being infected with a virus to when the virus has multiplied sufficiently in the new host so that symptoms are apparent and any samples contain enough of the virus to be identified.

 

A quarantine merely allows those people suspected of having been in contact with the virus to ride out the incubation period whilst not coming in contact with anyone else during that period.

 

Your example did not indicate whether the group had been in individual quarantine, under strict conditions, or if they were merely quarantined at home. Also no timeline is given so there is no way to know whether the family members were infected before the quarantine, or during the quarantine as you imply.

Way too many people do not understand about incubation periods or testing timing. As evidenced by all the comments whenever there is a new case diagnosed that quarantine will need to start over with another 2 weeks. New cases a few days into quarantine and so many start their tirade of “quarantine doesn’t work!!!”

5 hours ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

Asymptomatic transmission is not uncommon and has been associated with a number of illnesses over the years (centuries?). 

 

Yes, it is going to be very interesting to see what the results of the testing of all remaining passengers show. The percentages were definitely skewed with the current numbers diagnosed with the virus. 

Good point.

[fragilek]

31 minutes ago, seapals2 said:

undecided ... would prefer to make a decision based on knowledge of where I would be taken and who would be responsible for my care.  
David on the ship said today that Alan who had been taken to hospital was having conflicting test results and now has no confidence in the medical staff.  As of today he is not permitting doctors to enter his room. 
The worst possible outcome is he did not have the virus when he arrived at the hospital but then contracts it.  

 As the CDC them self have said a negative test is not 100% accurate and if symptoms are shown is to be treated as a positive.  I would imagine that if someone had low levels the viral load may be to low or the test unreliable it could give a false negative.  As time passes and with more info the testing will be improved (every thing is still in the early stages of scientific development).  Unless he is seeing isolation protocols being broken (and that can happen but usually in small community hospitals -my own experience when I was first admitted to hospital condition un-diagnosed. I should have been in isolation/reverse barrier care - but protocols were broken so often I was so scared and couldn't wait to be transferred to a proper teaching hospital's isolation unit - I remained in it for a initial stay of 7 months with no break but saw no breaches and felt secure if a little stir crazy) he would be mad to turn doctors away, this disease profile has been shown, for the unfortunate minority turn nasty very quickly between day 10 and 21.  I assume the docs would be monitoring him carefully and checking reactive CFR (this tells virus is getting worse by going up but lets doc know that symptoms are not being caused by a secondary bacterial infection and if so they would go up much higher) and may be even viral load which would give a heads up if is health is about to decline.

Edited February 14, 2020 by fragilek

[auldlassie]

To Mich3554 who replied to my earlier post re testing all passengers, 

I understand the points you make, but I disagree with your assessment of testing facilities available in Japan. I guess, if you read the link you missed the vital part 

 

"Prime Minister Shinzo Abe on Wednesday said that the government will bolster testing capabilities for those on the cruise ship to about 1,000 samples per day by Feb. 18 — the last day of the designated incubation period for people on the cruise ship — by allowing testing at private facilities."

 

 That last sentence is the key. This article was posted on 12th Feb.  Doing 1000 tests per day in private labs was clearly possible, but they chose to stick with 300 tests per day at government labs. They now say they will begin this private lab testing on Feb 18th as part of this article following :-

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/02/12/national/science-health/japan-covid-19-test-kit-shortage-cruise-

ship/#.XkapwCj7RPY

 

Kit shortages, lab sample transport etc etc all discussed here, ( I am not trying to minimise the difficulties at all)  but all ultimately possible to be done. They had this option available to them, but it just needed political will, which seems to have been lacking.  Like I said before,  it was - and is, the world over, - all about the political "cost versus need" decision. 

[Host CJSKIDS]

Just wanted to make a quick post about the copyright guidelines on here as so many are posting from articles.  I know I always have to refresh myself on the guidelines, if it's not in front of me, I forget.  As I just turned 58 this month, things are getting worse, old age LOL!!

 

The guideline is copy paste with a link.  No full cut and paste please .   A Press release from Princess is an exception.

 

There is a link to the guidelines at the top of the page if anyone has any questions or is interested in reading about any other guidelines. 

 

Thanks everyone and Happy Valentine's Day!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 14, 2020 by Host CJSKIDS

[bluesea321]

Very good article from the Japan Times describing the tasks and uncertainties of removing all from the ship. The plan for Feb 19 is not clear at this time.

 

Clearing coronavirus-hit ship is daunting task for Japan

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/02/14/national/japan-clear-coronavirus-cruise-ship/#.XkayXhNKjPA

[fragilek]

10 minutes ago, Host CJSKIDS said:

Just wanted to make a quick post about the copyright guidelines on here as so many are posting from articles.  I know I always have to refresh myself on the guidelines, if it's not in front of me, I forget.  As I just turned 58 this month, things are getting worse, old age LOL!!

 

The guideline is copy paste with a link.  No full cut and paste please .   A Press release from Princess is an exception.

 

There is a link to the guidelines at the top of the page if anyone has any questions or is interested in reading about any other guidelines. 

 

Thanks everyone and Happy Valentine's Day!

 

 

 

Thanks for that.  Can you tell me if I am doing something wrong as every time I post the link in it puts the whole picture on video in the post - I am hopeless at all his sort of stuff. Should that not happen? should I just see a blue link after I post it?- If so what am I doing wrong? -thanks for any help

 

 

 

[mayleeman]

@Host CJSKIDS To clarify, does that mean no cutting and pasting with any content? I try to post a small excerpt and a link for attribution, which is expressly permitted under copyright law. Is CC policy stricter?

[paphoslady]

Very difficult to predict what the Japanese will decide to do when the quarantine comes to an end. Some passengers may have to be quarantined for longer if for example their cabin mate has tested positive over the last few days. Distressing to hear that one of the UK passengers who tested positive and was removed from the ship has lost all confidence in the doctors treating him after getting results that don't make sense. I think the language barrier is a real problem too!

[AlyssaJames]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2020/02/14/diamond-princess-cruise-ship-feeling-love-despite-coronavirus/4748412002/

 

"Passenger Matt Smith, who has been keeping USA TODAY up to date on the situation on the ship, said the captain made an announcement that they would begin that process by removing 11 passengers from the ship Friday afternoon, local time."

So it seems a few more probably got off earlier today (local time). And it seems no new cases reported for Feb 14 (for context it is now Feb 15 local time/past midnight there), or else they just haven't released the numbers yet. 

[ehogan]

Happy Valentines day ❤️❤️❤️to all on board the Diamond and especially to the crew who are continuing to do the fantastic jobs they always do.  We think of you daily and wish you strength.

 

Also best wishes to Princess cruise lines, you are doing the best you can under the circumstances...we are Elite with you and will stick with you!

[kathy49]

At the risk of being blasted again I would encourage people to take a look at David Abel's utube of the trip prior to quarantine. He is a great photographer and he got some great shots despite HK having heavy clouds.  What did strike me is they are taking group excursions everyday in coaches etc. and at the attractions some of the visitors are wearing masks.  I believe this was as the corona epidemic was unfolding...many areas very crowded with tourist from all over (not just ship) and before travel in and out of HK was closed from mainland china.  Beyond the "one man" I don't see why passengers could not have picked up the virus while touring in just about any of the popular spots they visited...I think it was also during chinese new year where so many had traveled and they go to all these favorite Asian ports.  I saw one man on the ship bus with mask (the bus David was one) and really got me to wondering....they were there just a bit before HK was closed.  Again no facts here but wonder if anyone else had thought about this. I had not really until I watched that video. Taken before the quarantine. Link to video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaYsNeW0u8c&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR02yIbj9NTTaCBuJe9lGQlhXRzHAzWIliWroyZtmcHsZST6SejcbL7Dzgw

 

[kathy49]

19 minutes ago, paphoslady said:

Very difficult to predict what the Japanese will decide to do when the quarantine comes to an end. Some passengers may have to be quarantined for longer if for example their cabin mate has tested positive over the last few days. Distressing to hear that one of the UK passengers who tested positive and was removed from the ship has lost all confidence in the doctors treating him after getting results that don't make sense. I think the language barrier is a real problem too!

having a language barrier when it comes to medical is really not acceptable. Hopefully they can get someone on a phone or in person that can translate with medical background.

[NavArch64]

I just watched the video from the Chief Medical Officer re Diamond Princess. I was very impressed by the professional and compassionate style and content of the presentation. It reinforces my support for the management team in Santa Clarita during this very challenging time for Princess.

[Psoque]

2 minutes ago, kathy49 said:

At the risk of being blasted again I would encourage people to take a look at David Abel's utube of the trip prior to quarantine. He is a great photographer and he got some great shots despite HK having heavy clouds.  What did strike me is they are taking group excursions everyday in coaches etc. and at the attractions some of the visitors are wearing masks.  I believe this was as the corona epidemic was unfolding...many areas very crowded with tourist from all over (not just ship) and before travel in and out of HK was closed from mainland china.  Beyond the "one man" I don't see why passengers could not have picked up the virus while touring in just about any of the popular spots they visited...I think it was also during chinese new year where so many had traveled and they go to all these favorite Asian ports.  I saw one man on the ship bus with mask (the bus David was one) and really got me to wondering....they were there just a bit before HK was closed.  Again no facts here but wonder if anyone else had thought about this. I had not really until I watched that video. Taken before the quarantine. Link to video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaYsNeW0u8c&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR02yIbj9NTTaCBuJe9lGQlhXRzHAzWIliWroyZtmcHsZST6SejcbL7Dzgw

 

In Japan, especially, it is completely normal for people to wear these masks during the influenza season, even if you are not feeling ill.  Also even outside of the influenza season, it is considered customary and considerate for one to wear a mask if you have a cold, etc., when riding a bus/train in public.

[mayleeman]

@kathy49 Mask use is common in China even when no epidemic is threatened.

 

Edit: I see @Psoque posted simultaneously.

Edited February 14, 2020 by mayleeman

[Psoque]

4 minutes ago, kathy49 said:

having a language barrier when it comes to medical is really not acceptable. Hopefully they can get someone on a phone or in person that can translate with medical background.

I agree that the language barrier is a problem, and we can all agree that the ways to overcome that barrier would solve the problem.  But I am not sure exactly what you mean by "really not acceptable."  What is not acceptable.  It sounds like the barrier is not being addressed either intentionally or by neglect.  The healthcare professionals dealing with this quarantine, many of them volunteers (not getting paid at all), are doing this because they want to help.  Criticizing their possible lack of English fluency (or fluency in any other language) is inappropriate and it is coming from our sense of privilege.

[Host CJSKIDS]

33 minutes ago, mayleeman said:

@Host CJSKIDS To clarify, does that mean no cutting and pasting with any content? I try to post a small excerpt and a link for attribution, which is expressly permitted under copyright law. Is CC policy stricter?

 

I will get further clarification from what I have been told.  I have been told that cutting and pasting and including the url link so that others can read the article and clearly see the source should have no issues.

 

Here is the link in the guidelines to read about copyright here on CC. Note that you can write word for word any announcement from the cruise line as long as you say where it's from.

 

This is a very unique situation right now so we are all still learning.

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/guidelines/#guides_compliance 

 

You can also email help@cruisecritic.com.  That's a great place to go if you ever have any specific questions how guidelines or anything else on the boards. It's a great team of people answering from there.

 

Hope you enjoy the rest of your day!

 

 

 

 

[phil the brit]

5 minutes ago, Psoque said:

I agree that the language barrier is a problem, and we can all agree that the ways to overcome that barrier would solve the problem.  But I am not sure exactly what you mean by "really not acceptable."  What is not acceptable.  It sounds like the barrier is not being addressed either intentionally or by neglect.  The healthcare professionals dealing with this quarantine, many of them volunteers (not getting paid at all), are doing this because they want to help.  Criticizing their possible lack of English fluency (or fluency in any other language) is inappropriate and it is coming from our sense of privilege.

Don't be silly, it is a fundamental necessity for SOMEONE to be on hand to translate conversations. Heck, you could at last resort get a phone translator very easily. There has to be a way to communicate between patient and doctor!

[kathy49]

11 minutes ago, Psoque said:

In Japan, especially, it is completely normal for people to wear these masks during the influenza season, even if you are not feeling ill.  Also even outside of the influenza season, it is considered customary and considerate for one to wear a mask if you have a cold, etc., when riding a bus/train in public.

yes have seen them all over the world wearing masks...however I mention this simply because the Diamond passengers were in HK at the beginning of Chinese New Year when so many from mainland China are traveling and I am sure not all wearing masks...it is possible that the virus was spread this way too...frankly there are endless possibilities. By no means are most of the people on the street wearing masks...that came later.

[kathy49]

9 minutes ago, Psoque said:

I agree that the language barrier is a problem, and we can all agree that the ways to overcome that barrier would solve the problem.  But I am not sure exactly what you mean by "really not acceptable."  What is not acceptable.  It sounds like the barrier is not being addressed either intentionally or by neglect.  The healthcare professionals dealing with this quarantine, many of them volunteers (not getting paid at all), are doing this because they want to help.  Criticizing their possible lack of English fluency (or fluency in any other language) is inappropriate and it is coming from our sense of privilege.

okay you regulars got your wish..no more word smithing for this poster. Stay healthy.

[ceilidh1]

If everyone on the ship opted to leave for land based facility, the only news about this would have to come from officials since the passengers would be cut off from the outside world without phone or internet. I don’t think this would happen - seems many that are reporting from the ship are opting to stay in. I just thought this was an interesting turn of events.

[JF - retired RRT]

Is there a link?

[azbirdmom]

1 hour ago, AlyssaJames said:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2020/02/14/diamond-princess-cruise-ship-feeling-love-despite-coronavirus/4748412002/

 

"Passenger Matt Smith, who has been keeping USA TODAY up to date on the situation on the ship, said the captain made an announcement that they would begin that process by removing 11 passengers from the ship Friday afternoon, local time."

So it seems a few more probably got off earlier today (local time). And it seems no new cases reported for Feb 14 (for context it is now Feb 15 local time/past midnight there), or else they just haven't released the numbers yet. 

 

My guess (as I am not an expert) is that they are no longer releasing daily counts of those who have tested positive on the ship.  The last update happened two days after the prior announcement and if they are on an every other day schedule, that would suggest that we may hear something later today.  There are at least two more cases on the ship that I am aware of.  The husband of a woman whose posts I have been following tested positive after the last official update.  And she has added a few hours ago that a woman she befriended on the ship whose husband tested positive 9 days ago has now tested positive.  Continuing to send prayers to those on board.

[fragilek]

I have also read on twitter that a passenger on board swapped  one of their ready meal noddle things for a bottle of wine with a different cabin (FIL's cabin, I have asked how they managed this but they haven't responded).  They put up pictures of their gained wine.  -( no idea how to now post this after the link reminder post). That sort of thing gives me an unease about how strict the quarantine aspects on the ship are.  I  understand that some will argue they sailed together before the lock down so what is the difference now- however, to me there is not only a risk here for themselves but more importantly potentially in the longer term for others.