Are our cruising days over? (merged topics re: health and age restrictions)

[tgwabd]

3 hours ago, Steelers36 said:

The letter doesn't ask for a guarantee that something won't happen.  A form letter I saw simply asked for certification that the passenger/patient does not have certain chronic medical conditions.  If that is all that is being asked to be certified, it seems to me that is a pretty simple yes/no answer.  

The letter is asking for a guarantee, no doctor in their right mind would guarantee you, for fear of being sued by you if you get sick, that's the world we live in now, deal with it......

[tgwabd]

No Doctor in their right mind would sign a letter for a person in your age group guaranteeing your well being...end of story....

[xDisconnections]

9 hours ago, CineGraphic said:

And if you call again, odds are you'll get a different answer....especially on weekends.

If you call two times, you’ll get three different answers 😉 

[Wheelhouse]

I picture a cottage industry picking up with telemed doctors providing cruise authorizations for a strong fee.   They would not even necessarily need be first world MDs.   Even in the US there have been many unscrupulous doctors willing to provide opiate prescriptions with no examination.  Providing cruise medical authorizations seems to be less sinister.

 

Just some random musings here by a former medical professional.  

 

 

[kathy49]

lucky they have ceased operation for two months....honestly there are many people well under 70 that are probably not "fit" to travel but they do...and now over 70 have to go thru all of this? Almost everyone over 70 has a chronic condition of some sort...key is...is it managed?  Not sure if that is good enough for the cruises. Land based vacations sound pretty good right about now.

Edited March 16, 2020 by kathy49

[ontheweb]

11 hours ago, Colo Cruiser said:

We always purchase CFAR Princess insurance for all of our cruises.

Have you purchased this insurance to cover a situation like you describe?

No, we have private insurance with Travel Guard, not cancel for any reason. At the moment we only have a refundable deposit, so nothing to lose monetarily if we cancel within the next month plus. Our TA even told us at the time we booked that the insurance would be refundable according to our state's law because we would be cancelling with nothing at stake.

 

Losing the money paid for the cruise plus EZ Air would be a bummer, but it is a cost we were willing to pay for the cruise. What we basically buy the insurance for is to prevent the possible catastrophic medical expenses that could occur.  Example---5 years ago on Memorial Day weekend, I broke my ankle at an air show at Jones Beach (maybe 150 miles give or take from home). I had some expenses (deductibles), but nothing terrible. But what if the same thing happened on our upcoming cruise and I broke my ankle in Norway. Huge expenses could pile up without travel insurance, and that would be a catastrophe unlike just losing the already budgeted for cruise fare.

 

Also from what I have read, the insurance from private companies provide more monetary coverage than those from the cruise lines.

[nbsjcruiser]

I posted this on another thread but thought it worthy to re-post with a few edits.

 

This outbreak will impact cruising for a long time. Rightfully or wrongly, the cruise industry has taken a black eye on this. Like the Norovirus, this virus shows what happens when you put a large group of people into a contained environment that is a perfect breeding ground of children, elderly people, people with health issues and (lets admit it) those with minimal sanitary habits. People are living longer and cruisers are statistically an older clientele to begin with, 47 years on average. Yes there are lines where there are younger people but there are cruise lines like Holland and Princess where the average age is noticeably older. With older people being more susceptible to disease and statistically more prone to get seriously ill or die from viruses like Coronavirus, is the cruise industry in for a bit of a wake up call?

 

I've been on almost 30 cruises and I've always brushed off these concerns. My standard response to a Noro outbreak has always been, people get sick on all inclusives too, we just dont hear that much about it and while that's true, when we travel to another country either on a cruise or to an all inclusive we are putting our faith in a lot of people. How clean is an airplane in the middle of flu season with a couple hundred people on board? The CDC inspects cruise ships so they should be fine unless of course the CDC has been gutted as they have in the last 3 years. Its safe to visit places with world class health systems like Italy, England, USA and so on. Is it though? In Italy you have a government that has been at odds with itself for years and the results have shown themselves in this outbreak. In the US you see what happens when a government denies science, lies with reckless abandon and minimizes an outbreak just so they wont lose votes. Its fair (and probably smart)  to question their ability to handle health emergencies if they're not being honest.

 

For years the cruise industry has been building more ships, bigger ships, ships that pollute more and visiting more remote areas as the rapid expansion of Eco-tourism demonstrates. Should we be visiting remote places like the Antarctic or the Galapagos?  I've always wondered what damage we are doing with these ships to these remote places. What risks are we putting ourselves in when we are removed that far from civilization? When I see pictures and videos of people in very remote places, with endangered animals and native people I cant help but wonder if they might not be better off if we just left them alone. Is a selfie with a Galapagos Tortoise really worth it? And with these remote places comes more chance of a remote illness that the cruise line will be unable to handle.  Picture a Holland America ship on its way to some far away remote place with 2 or 3 hundred sick elderly people on it. Nightmare.

 

This is not the cruise line's fault. Norovirus, Covid-19 isn't picking on them. Its going to spread even if there are no cruise ships but this isn't going to stop people from questioning if they haven't been a bit cavalier with their own health,  wondering if maybe that could be them on that ship for 14 or 21 days, floating around, going nowhere getting sicker.

 

When 911 hit, the enemy was well identified and after a relatively short period taken care of. This is different. It feels different to me anyway. I'm pretty sure a great majority of cruisers will return but I wont be surprised by a long stretch of time where there's empty cabins while people hesitate. Meanwhile all those new ships that are in the process of being built will continue to come to market. I've wondered for a few years when this glut of ships and rooms would be too much. When the cruise lines would suddenly realize that their supply is exceeding demand. This recent virus outbreak might just push this over-supply to the forefront and with that might come lower rates but those lower rates are going to be accompanied by more cost cutting, more cutting corners (and the risks that come with that) and more squeezing of the passenger to get every nickel and dime that they can out of them once they are on board. 

 

My gut tells me the cruise line recovery from this is not going to be the same as it was with 911 and 2008. 

[Colo Cruiser]

26 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

No, we have private insurance with Travel Guard, not cancel for any reason. At the moment we only have a refundable deposit, so nothing to lose monetarily if we cancel within the next month plus. Our TA even told us at the time we booked that the insurance would be refundable according to our state's law because we would be cancelling with nothing at stake.

 

Losing the money paid for the cruise plus EZ Air would be a bummer, but it is a cost we were willing to pay for the cruise. What we basically buy the insurance for is to prevent the possible catastrophic medical expenses that could occur.  Example---5 years ago on Memorial Day weekend, I broke my ankle at an air show at Jones Beach (maybe 150 miles give or take from home). I had some expenses (deductibles), but nothing terrible. But what if the same thing happened on our upcoming cruise and I broke my ankle in Norway. Huge expenses could pile up without travel insurance, and that would be a catastrophe unlike just losing the already budgeted for cruise fare.

 

Also from what I have read, the insurance from private companies provide more monetary coverage than those from the cruise lines.

Well I hope you can take your cruise with no issues or given the option of a full refund from Princess. 

[PrincessLuver]

2 hours ago, nbsjcruiser said:

 

My gut tells me the cruise line recovery from this is not going to be the same as it was with 911 and 2008. 

 

I think you are correct....this crisis in impacting the world and no one can probably even come close to knowing the human or economic impact of COVID-19.....I think we will be lucky if any of the cruise lines survive economically.....those who think they will rebound fast may be doing some wishful thinking because it is definitely not going to be doing business as usual.....especially if many people are just hoping to hang on to their jobs or house after this is all over.....I think it is going to be rough and tough sailing for many unfortunately.....

Edited March 16, 2020 by PrincessLuver

[nbsjcruiser]

22 minutes ago, PrincessLuver said:

 

I think you are correct....this crisis in impacting the world and no one can probably even come close to knowing the human or economic impact of COVID-19.....I think we will be lucky if any of the cruise lines survive economically.....those who think they will rebound fast may be doing some wishful thinking because it is definitely not going to be doing business as usual.....especially if many people are just hoping to hang on to their jobs or house after this is all over.....I think it is going to be rough and tough sailing for many unfortunately.....

 

You may actually see some sort of industry wide re-shaping or re-balancing as companies with huge debt levels and massive ships (looking at you RCI) try to survive. Bankruptcies and near bankruptcies might mean takeovers, cutbacks, mothballing older ships and reduced number of cruises as they try to keep profits up.

 

And look for airlines and governments to cash in. Like all those 911 fees and airport improvement fees? Wait until the ports and airports get their grubby little paws into "virus containment" fees and "disinfectant improvement" fees. I can see it now.

Edited March 16, 2020 by nbsjcruiser

[PrincessLuver]

7 hours ago, nbsjcruiser said:

 

You may actually see some sort of industry wide re-shaping or re-balancing as companies with huge debt levels and massive ships (looking at you RCI) try to survive. Bankruptcies and near bankruptcies might mean takeovers, cutbacks, mothballing older ships and reduced number of cruises as they try to keep profits up.

 

And look for airlines and governments to cash in. Like all those 911 fees and airport improvement fees? Wait until the ports and airports get their grubby little paws into "virus containment" fees and "disinfectant improvement" fees. I can see it now.

 

I cannot imagine who is going to pay for all of this or has the means to pay for all this.....if whole industries are shut down something has to give...I am sure millions of people are going to lose their jobs world wide.....it is something my wife and I could have never imagined in our wildest dreams....I am worried I might get a dose of when I heard my parents talking about living through the Great Depression.....instead of seeing the world we are hunkered down at home for who knows how long...wishing everyone well and stay safe with this nasty little bug ravaging everything!!!

[Big Tiger Fan]

I first saw the info on over 70 travel from a CNBC interview with the President of CLIA on March 11. You can google this and listen. It wasn’t 2 days they were given but 72 hours. In that interview they say over 70 OR have a serious medical condition,  which makes more sense. 
I thought that CruCon’s information on this topic contained details from each cruise line regarding their new requirements but that doesn’t seem to be it. I’ll keel looking but DH and I both read the same info about letters v. Forms.

 

[Big Tiger Fan]

All right, did more reading. The proposal submitted called for passengers over 70 or with a serious medical condition to be denied boarding unless they have a note from their doctor saying they are fit to travel.
NCL did not wait to see what would develop and has implemented this policy. Don’t know about others but NCL and Celebrity have a form for passengers to use. Princess does not yet have a form thus needing a note or letter. 

But it all started with the WH.

[nbsjcruiser]

39 minutes ago, Big Tiger Fan said:

All right, did more reading. The proposal submitted called for passengers over 70 or with a serious medical condition to be denied boarding unless they have a note from their doctor saying they are fit to travel.
NCL did not wait to see what would develop and has implemented this policy. Don’t know about others but NCL and Celebrity have a form for passengers to use. Princess does not yet have a form thus needing a note or letter. 

But it all started with the WH.

Interesting. Approximately 15% of cruisers are 70 or older as per CLIA. That's a lot of people who will need to rely on the doctors not having an issue agreeing to a ok to sail letter. I can see many doctors not willing to legally put themselves in jeopardy signing a letter like that.

[Potstech]

On 3/15/2020 at 7:58 PM, caribill said:

 

Or Carnival or Celebrity or Hal or ?

Yes

[calliecat]

I'm a couple years away from the cut off of 70.  We done 15 cruises.  Watch out America....we're taking our 37 ft Class A RV and hitting the roads if we can't cruise...... zoom zoom.   Now who's scared!!!!!

[MissP22]

1 hour ago, calliecat said:

I'm a couple years away from the cut off of 70.  We done 15 cruises.  Watch out America....we're taking our 37 ft Class A RV and hitting the roads if we can't cruise...... zoom zoom.   Now who's scared!!!!!

There's a big world out there just to see in the US that I've never had the time to explore. 😉

[MISTER 67]

THIS IS IN LARGE CASE BECAUSE I TALKED TO MY PCC's YESTERDAY AT PRINCESS AND HOLLAND AMERICA AND BOTH SAID THAT THEIR CRUISE LINES WOULD NEVER INSTITUTE A POLICY OF NEEDING A DOCTORS NOTE STATING THE PASSENGER WAS HEALTHY ENOUGH TO CRUISE.

DID SOMETHING HAPPEN TODAY CONTRARY TO WHAT MY PCC's TOLD ME YESTERDAY.

[chipmaster]

Any of you older folks can comment, what are the restrictions for older folks for air plane, TPAC or across the pond?

 

 

[Potstech]

I guess, if this is implemented, I will no longer be able to cruise after next July. I have had cancer, 2 heart attacks and have diabetes.  I also do not see a doctor but a Nurse Practitioner.  Yet I work out 3 times a week and walk 3 miles three days a week. Princess may say I need a Doctors note to cruise after then but not for the next 16 months.  Yet nothing changed but time.  WRONG WRONG WRONG

[Journey99999]

7 minutes ago, Potstech said:

I guess, if this is implemented, I will no longer be able to cruise after next July. I have had cancer, 2 heart attacks and have diabetes.  I also do not see a doctor but a Nurse Practitioner.  Yet I work out 3 times a week and walk 3 miles three days a week. Princess may say I need a Doctors note to cruise after then but not for the next 16 months.  Yet nothing changed but time.  WRONG WRONG WRONG

My feelings (that I posted before)
 

Are your cruising days over? Yes
I don’t believe in age or health discrimination.
I’m in my fifties and will give my extra cash to venues, sites, destinations, etc. that appreciate all walks of life.

discrimination: treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit

 

[Ride-The-Waves]

Similar form is already in use for passengers going on expedition ships to remote regions where quick access to medical assistance is not readily possible.  This includes specifically Antarctic voyages south of the Antarctic Circle.  Applies to all passengers, which seems logically.  You can be younger than 70 and be in poor health and have the chronic conditions listed.  I have seen a lot of cruisers on ships who likely should have not been on board.  Doing that puts not only yourself in danger but also others.  Cruising has evolved without oversight on health and maybe its time some restrictions are applied for the benefit of everyone.

[Potstech]

And the restrictions should apply to all with similar health problems. Arbitrary by age is discrimination not true oversight.

[Murphey]

It doesn't say anything about cancer....as per the OP letter

[Potstech]

The OP, in the initial post starting this discussion, DOES mention cancer as well as other submissions.