Are our cruising days over? (merged topics re: health and age restrictions)

[TYinPalmSprings]

6 hours ago, Essiesmom said:

You are missing the whole point of the restriction.  The concern is that people over 70 with these conditions are at higher risk of severe complications if they contract the virus.  They may even be more susceptible to catching it.  EM

Then give them back their money 

[TYinPalmSprings]

6 hours ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

If your doctor determines that you should not be cruising because of your health, you should not be cruising.  Had to have similar for an Antarctic cruise three years ago.  A general health certificate/screening provides the ship's doctor the opportunity to determine whether the conditions of the cruise could negatively impact your health or cause you health problems the ship cannot resolve.  This is a good thing.  For everyone's benefit, especially yours.  FYI - I'm 75 and spouse is 78.

And did they keep the money you already paid....or did they require this BEFORE you paid?

[Eaglecw]

So I'm supposed to go see my Dr. who I can't get a appointment with when I am sick and get a letter sign stating that I'm fit to travel. That leaves a large portion of those who cruise out in the cold, because a large percentage of them have the aliments listed.

[TYinPalmSprings]

1 hour ago, Mapleleafforever said:

Are you ok with adults only sections of ships where everyone under 16 is singled out and not allowed to enter?

Difference here is that they took your money first, then booted you off the cruise, maybe offered a credit that you will never be able to use due to their new policy, then kept the money. Theft.

[Bdnclc]

Can't see all physicians wanting to sign a letter like that.  Smells like legal mess if someone becomes ill

[TYinPalmSprings]

1 minute ago, Eaglecw said:

So I'm supposed to go see my Dr. who I can't get a appointment with when I am sick and get a letter sign stating that I'm fit to travel. That leaves a large portion of those who cruise out in the cold, because a large percentage of them have the aliments listed.

And already ,many are reporting they are healthy but their doctors refuse to sign anything fearing they may be held liable as so little is known about this virus.....and they have imposed a deadline on the use of the credits  

[MissP22]

2 minutes ago, TYinPalmSprings said:

Difference here is that they took your money first, then booted you off the cruise, maybe offered a credit that you will never be able to use due to their new policy, then kept the money. Theft.

Couldn't the refund not be denied since most people charge it on a credit card?

[TYinPalmSprings]

18 minutes ago, jotjot said:

Warning, conspiracy theory alert!!! We got off the Gem a week ago and noticed many people in our age group were physical disadvantage ,we all thought that was great but maybe NCL did not. Let's get around ADA laws like get rid of to many wheelchairs, scooters, oxygen tanks, walkers etc.

If they have oxygen tanks then they have some respiratory issue......same true if MS in wheelchairs. No conspiracy...reality

[voljeep]

3 hours ago, ontheweb said:

That's what those doing the discriminating always say.

it's not about the money … it's ALWAYS about the money … same thing

[Tedferg]

57 minutes ago, ALWAYS CRUZIN said:

What am I missing here. No cruises for 60 days.

I think you need to change your ID Moniker. maybe Always Cruzin But Not For 60 Days 🙂

 

[Mapleleafforever]

54 minutes ago, TYinPalmSprings said:

If they have oxygen tanks then they have some respiratory issue......same true if MS in wheelchairs. No conspiracy...reality

I don't think Cruise lines have to abide by ADA laws. Carnival is based in Panama I believe. They also don't have to abide by American labor laws hence the cheap and overworked workers onboard. 

[TYinPalmSprings]

For those into scenarios and comparisons, here's one that may make it a bit clearer:

You go to a big box retailer and  purchase the latest high end television.  You pay the full amount as required. When you go to pick it up they tell you  they are sorry but they cannot provide it to you....but will keep your money anyway, and give you a credit that can be used for that television in the future...but unfortunately, they may never, or will never, have that television available for you because you do not meet their new policy, and you cannot use  credit on any of their other televisions. And, oh by the way, you only have a limited amount of time to use the credit before it expires and you lose everything.. 

Do you just say that it's okay and walk away? That is what some are suggesting that those who are over 70 do. 

[ontheweb]

4 hours ago, Colo Cruiser said:

Thanks.....So if Princess has not adopted it yet why all the hysteria?

Maybe because other lines including Carnival from the parent corporation have adopted this. Maybe because all indications are that doctors will not sign such a note and their insurance carriers will also tell them not to sign such a note.

[Colo Cruiser]

30 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Maybe because other lines including Carnival from the parent corporation have adopted this. Maybe because all indications are that doctors will not sign such a note and their insurance carriers will also tell them not to sign such a note.

Or maybe just maybe this is Princess? 🤔

[TYinPalmSprings]

36 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Maybe because other lines including Carnival from the parent corporation have adopted this. Maybe because all indications are that doctors will not sign such a note and their insurance carriers will also tell them not to sign such a note.

RCCL has adopted it too, and it is in force. and yes, I have already been advised by travel buddies over 70 that, even though they are healthy, or have some earlier ailment now under control, their doctors  refused to sign it for anyone.

[Ombud]

8 hours ago, Iamcruzin said:

Any one who is retired and is up in years should take the cash refund. The stock market is crap right now and those living off investments should try to take the minimum amount they need to live off of. A future cruise would be an expense and lets face it if you are really up in age your mortality is at stake as well.

Why do you think:

1. Those retired live 'off investments'?

2. Cannot wait out a downturn similar to 1987 or 2001 or 2008/9 or 2011? Yep, we've seen them all

3. Up in years = weak or need to 'face mortality' more than anyone else?

 

Ok. Jumping off soap box. I don't live off my stock market investments, will take RMD in a few years because the IRS requires it, but I have to admit that I've slowed down. I only do 1/2 marathons now (And no, I don't care if I'm last. I just care if I cross the finish line before I pass a favorite coffee place and it tempts me to stop with just a 10k. Been there / done that)

 

[RocketMan275]

57 minutes ago, TYinPalmSprings said:

For those into scenarios and comparisons, here's one that may make it a bit clearer:

You go to a big box retailer and  purchase the latest high end television.  You pay the full amount as required. When you go to pick it up they tell you  they are sorry but they cannot provide it to you....but will keep your money anyway, and give you a credit that can be used for that television in the future...but unfortunately, they may never, or will never, have that television available for you because you do not meet their new policy, and you cannot use  credit on any of their other televisions. And, oh by the way, you only have a limited amount of time to use the credit before it expires and you lose everything.. 

Do you just say that it's okay and walk away? That is what some are suggesting that those who are over 70 do. 

No, that isn't what is being suggested.

The suggestion is this:  calm down, relax, give the cruise lines time to sort this out.

The expectation is that once more is known, the over seventy requirement will be phased out or modified.  If it is not, then you'll get a full refund.

And, no, it would be unreasonable, considering the complexity of the situation, for the cruise line policies to address each and every conceivable contingency.  For example, how much high blood pressure is too high?  How many heart attacks are too many.  

There is no reason to believe that you'll either not get the opportunity to cruise or a full refund.  

 

[RocketMan275]

28 minutes ago, TYinPalmSprings said:

RCCL has adopted it too, and it is in force. and yes, I have already been advised by travel buddies over 70 that, even though they are healthy, or have some earlier ailment now under control, their doctors  refused to sign it for anyone.

If their doctor isn't willing to say they are fit to travel, they probably shouldn't be travelling.  

BTW, I recently had voluntary surgery.  My surgeon required a stress test and heart cathertization  because of my age before he performed the surgery.  Was he wrong?  If I was under seventy, he would not have required the stress test. Was that age discrimination?  (FWIW, I passed and had the surgery.) 

[caribill]

8 hours ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

If your doctor determines that you should not be cruising because of your health, you should not be cruising.  Had to have similar for an Antarctic cruise three years ago.  A general health certificate/screening provides the ship's doctor the opportunity to determine whether the conditions of the cruise could negatively impact your health or cause you health problems the ship cannot resolve.  This is a good thing.  For everyone's benefit, especially yours.  FYI - I'm 75 and spouse is 78.

 

The exam you had I assume was required of all passengers on the trip and not just those over a certain age.

 

The new requirement is quite different because a physician must determine if a disease whose overall effects are not very well known or even determined yet must decide how those unknown effects would affect someone over age 70 who has certain chronic medical conditions, all the time assuming it would not have the same effects on those younger that 70 with the same chronic conditions but who will not need to provide such a form in order to cruise..

 

At the very least this would be a total guess and it is unknown if physicians would be willing to sign such a statement, or, if willing to sign, only do so after ordering what could be expensive laboratory tests.

 

It is unknown if such office visits and tests would be covered by insurance as you are not going to the physician with an illness you want diagnosed and treated.

[Iamcruzin]

33 minutes ago, Ombud said:

Why do you think:

1. Those retired live 'off investments'?

2. Cannot wait out a downturn similar to 1987 or 2001 or 2008/9 or 2011? Yep, we've seen them all

3. Up in years = weak or need to 'face mortality' more than anyone else?

 

Ok. Jumping off soap box. I don't live off my stock market investments, will take RMD in a few years because the IRS requires it, but I have to admit that I've slowed down. I only do 1/2 marathons now (And no, I don't care if I'm last. I just care if I cross the finish line before I pass a favorite coffee place and it tempts me to stop with just a 10k. Been there / done that)

 

Many do live off investment. I was on a Princess cruise in 2008 when the market crashed and many were concerned that they wouldn't be able to cruise due to the stock market performance. That took a while to come back. I also realize that there are many who are have generous pensions from the city and federal government. At any rate I would not take 100% FCC at any stage of my life.

  

 

[caribill]

8 hours ago, TYinPalmSprings said:

Just reported: over one half of France's cases of the virus in their hospitals in intensive care are under 60 years of age. The virus may be morphing. Wonder if the cruise lines will take heed and extend the required doctor's document to ALL age groups. Imagine the impact to the cruise lines if this occurs, especially as we are now hearing that many doctors are refusing to sign any document that may hold them possibly responsible.

 

I know that I and others have speculated this is possible, but can you provide the source saying this has actually happened?

[caribill]

7 hours ago, Colo Cruiser said:

I thought this was a proposal adopted only by NCL so far?

 

6 hours ago, nho9504 said:

 

It is among the proposal CLIA made to the Fed government when Pence met with them.

 

NCL is the only line requires this BEFORE CLIA even proposed such.  CLIA probably took the idea from NCL. 

 

This form requirement has been adopted also by Carnival, HAL, Royal Caribbean and others.

 

In fact, Princess is the only mass market cruise line not to require it so far. But their ships are not sailing for a 60 day period, so they do not have to rush out an announcement that they are protecting you by adopting the industry standard.

[caribill]

1 hour ago, Mapleleafforever said:

I don't think Cruise lines have to abide by ADA laws.

 

They do if they want to stop in USA ports.

[TYinPalmSprings]

14 minutes ago, caribill said:

 

I know that I and others have speculated this is possible, but can you provide the source saying this has actually happened?

Yes. Go to site for Royal Caribbean: www.royalcaribbean.com/cruise-ship itinerary-updates. The second section titled "Coronavirus (COVID-19) Health Protocol. They describe in detail required action and include the document that you must have signed by your doctor. 

Every day their page changes a bit. The last change was to cancels within 30 days, the only place where they will provide refunds, but going forward the over 70 doctor's rules remain..  

Edited March 15, 2020 by TYinPalmSprings

[SeaHunt]

MSC also:

 

"For all ships embarking in Miami. Starting from Saturday 14 of March we are further elevating our health measures, in line with the recommendation of the Cruise Line Association and the USA Government".
•            We will deny embarkation for:

•            All guests with severe chronic medical condition (heart disease, diabetes, lung disease) as specified by the U.S. CDC
•            All guests 70 years of age or older at embarkation date or who turn 70 within the duration of the cruise, unless provided written verification from their qualified treating physician certifying no severe chronic medical conditions and otherwise fit for the cruise