Are our cruising days over? (merged topics re: health and age restrictions)

[RocketMan275]

It could be worse.

BBC is reporting that UK may restrict all those over seventy to their homes:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-51895873

 

 

[RocketMan275]

3 hours ago, Journey99999 said:

Are your cruising days over? 
Yes
I don’t believe in age or health discrimination.
I’m in my fifties and will give my extra cash to venues, sites, destinations, etc. that appreciate all walks of life.

discrimination: treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit.

 

Too many focus on the first phrase and ignore the "on individual merit".  The disproportionate impact of the Wuhan Virus on those over seventy satisfies the "on individual merit" requirement.  IOW, this isn't age discrimination.

Edited March 15, 2020 by RocketMan275

[Essiesmom]

You are missing the whole point of the restriction.  The concern is that people over 70 with these conditions are at higher risk of severe complications if they contract the virus.  They may even be more susceptible to catching it.  EM

[Ride-The-Waves]

If your doctor determines that you should not be cruising because of your health, you should not be cruising.  Had to have similar for an Antarctic cruise three years ago.  A general health certificate/screening provides the ship's doctor the opportunity to determine whether the conditions of the cruise could negatively impact your health or cause you health problems the ship cannot resolve.  This is a good thing.  For everyone's benefit, especially yours.  FYI - I'm 75 and spouse is 78.

[RocketMan275]

A commonly used definition of discrimination: "treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit."

 

It's attractive to focus on the first phrase and ignore the last.  Discrimination isn't illegal if there is a rational basis for the difference in treatment.  We discriminate on the basis of age often. For example, you have to be at least sixteen to get a driver's license.  We also don't issue driver's licenses to the blind.  

 

And, yes, I'm over seventy.  

 

Also, FWIW, the BBC is reporting that the UK is considering confining all over seventy to their homes.  

Edited March 15, 2020 by RocketMan275

[Ride-The-Waves]

If your doctor determines that you should not be cruising because of your health, you should not be cruising.  Had to have similar for an Antarctic cruise three years ago.  A general health certificate provides the ship's doctor the opportunity to determine whether the conditions of the cruise could negatively impact your health or cause you health problems the ship cannot resolve.  This is a good thing.  For everyone's benefit, especially yours.  FYI - I'm 75 and spouse is 78.

[Iamcruzin]

On 3/13/2020 at 10:39 PM, Thrak said:

 

If I had a paid-in-full cruise cancelled I would take the second option where I would get 100% of my money back plus a 100% FCC. The 225% FCC seems to me to be more of a "sparkly thing" to attract people's attention so they will take the "better" option that might not really be of any real value to them. How lame to take the huge FCC option and then find out you are now going to be "too old to cruise".

Any one who is retired and is up in years should take the cash refund. The stock market is crap right now and those living off investments should try to take the minimum amount they need to live off of. A future cruise would be an expense and lets face it if you are really up in age your mortality is at stake as well.

[MissP22]

12 minutes ago, Iamcruzin said:

Any one who is retired and is up in years should take the cash refund. The stock market is crap right now and those living off investments should try to take the minimum amount they need to live off of. A future cruise would be an expense and lets face it if you are really up in age your mortality is at stake as well.

So as you see it, those older folks should sit at home in their rocking chair & wait to die. 

There's no need to risk going on a cruise ship every again.

Yea, right. LOL 😆

[RocketMan275]

13 minutes ago, Iamcruzin said:

Any one who is retired and is up in years should take the cash refund. The stock market is crap right now and those living off investments should try to take the minimum amount they need to live off of. A future cruise would be an expense and lets face it if you are really up in age your mortality is at stake as well.

Not necessarily so.  Some may wish to spend down their investments rather than any other option.  

[Iamcruzin]

Honestly, Think logically.  If you really think that the cruise line will keep this policy in play then anyone who has stock should sell now.  Retirees make up a large portion of the cruise line passenger. The ship aren't getting any smaller. How will they fill these ships and who is going to book those long exotic itineraries and Transatlantic sailing if they alienate this demographic. Before Covid-19 passengers of all ages sailed  with these medical conditions and were subject to norovirus, flu, and the common cold, all of which are a threat to anyone with medical complications of any age.

[Iamcruzin]

19 minutes ago, MissP22 said:

So as you see it, those older folks should sit at home in their rocking chair & wait to die. 

There's no need to risk going on a cruise ship every again.

Yea, right. LOL 😆

No, I'm just saying taking 100% FCC is a risk and anyone who is living on a fixed income off of investments would benefit from cash refund.  My parents are both 87 Mom, diabetic, kidney failure, congestive heart failure, triple bypass, colon cancer, uterine cancer  and wheel chair bound. She is a miracle of science. Dad is 87 going on 67. He takes less daily medication than I do. Everyone knows their own health limits and should choose accordingly. As far as the Dr's note, that will be lifted as soon as this pandemic ends. Cruise lines will go bankrupt if they keep this in place and those FCC's will be worthless.

Edited March 15, 2020 by Iamcruzin

[Steelers36]

I thought 70 was the new 60.  Being four years away from that "magical" age "barrier", I will wait and see how this unfolds. 

 

I do agree that there are lots of people under 70 who would be more at risk than some people who are over 70.  The cautions and warnings are well-publicized.  I think the main concern is that the typical cruise ship has a skewed population where mean age is much higher than a similar gathering on land and so the risk is much higher.  The cruise lines can't be doing this to alienate most of their customer base.

[TYinPalmSprings]

Just reported: over one half of France's cases of the virus in their hospitals in intensive care are under 60 years of age. The virus may be morphing. Wonder if the cruise lines will take heed and extend the required doctor's document to ALL age groups. Imagine the impact to the cruise lines if this occurs, especially as we are now hearing that many doctors are refusing to sign any document that may hold them possibly responsible.

[BigGuy25]

I’m over 70, have taken 30+ cruises, and I see no discrimination issues here. Just a wise policy to protect both passengers and the cruise line during this challenging period.

Edited March 15, 2020 by BigGuy25

[Alaska05]

What are you referring to?

 

This is the first I’ve heard of this.

 

Link please.

 

 

[Colo Cruiser]

I thought this was a proposal adopted only by NCL so far?

[PescadoAmarillo]

1 hour ago, Iamcruzin said:

Any one who is retired and is up in years should take the cash refund. The stock market is crap right now and those living off investments should try to take the minimum amount they need to live off of. A future cruise would be an expense and lets face it if you are really up in age your mortality is at stake as well.

I am not over 70, in fact, I’m only scarcely (two months) over 60 and when Princess last month offered us an FCC perk in lieu of a check they owe us, I declined. Even then I knew something like this was coming, and didn’t want to risk the money I was owed. I think people are getting too drawn in by the extra FCC, which, of course, is exactly what Princess wants to happen. In my case, it was only partially based on concern about the timing of a vaccine and the health of the industry; I also didn’t want to get caught up in the non-insurability of FCCs applied to a cruise. 

Edited March 15, 2020 by PescadoAmarillo

[Iamcruzin]

1 minute ago, PescadoAmarillo said:

I am not over 70, in fact, I’m only scarcely (two months) over 60 and when Princess last month offered us an FCC perk in lieu of a check they owe us, I declined. Even then I knew something like this was coming, and didn’t want to risk the money I was owed. I think people are getting too drawn in by the extra FCC, which, of course, is exactly what Princess wants to happen. In my case, it was only partially based on concern about the timing of a vaccine and the health of the industry; I also didn’t want to get caught up in the no -insurability of FCCs applied to a cruise. 

I would advise anyone of any age to take cash if offered.  I know CC members are waiting for a fire sale which I don't think will happen. Think about it. With all of these FCC's being issued the cruise lines would be stupid not to increase prices in order to recoup from this event. They know people will be forced to use the FCC's even if the same cruise will cost more. There is more flexibility with cash to be able to shop around with out a time limit. The extra FCC is a trap.

[hunt182644]

My biggest concern is that if someone over 70 has a treatable condition as many do. they could be prevented from cruising. People under that age with same problems could just as easily be susceptible to a virus. Looks to me like some of you even some older responders feel perhaps it is close to the time when our society decides seniors, lets just shut them away. Perhaps if they have a chronic illness lets just make it easy and euthanize them.  This virus is tending to drive a lot of people some what over the edge, perhaps myself. All who have responded have brought up valid points in their replys. Myself I expressed my feelings on the subject and will continue to backb safety measures. Although denying a person of any age the right to cruise because of a treatable non contact medical problem is nothing short of hysteria.

[voljeep]

next cruise booking … will that be cash or FCC ? - two different prices - just like the old days at the gas pumps 🤑

[Iamcruzin]

4 minutes ago, voljeep said:

next cruise booking … will that be cash or FCC ? - two different prices - just like the old days at the gas pumps 🤑

Don't give them any ideas.

[nho9504]

33 minutes ago, Colo Cruiser said:

I thought this was a proposal adopted only by NCL so far?

 

It is among the proposal CLIA made to the Fed government when Pence met with them.

 

NCL is the only line requires this BEFORE CLIA even proposed such.  CLIA probably took the idea from NCL.  This will greatly affect many lines business, from the luxury lines (in particular) to the mass market higher end - from Azamara to Celebrity to Holland America to Princess - a great percentage of the passengers especially on the longer cruise would be over 70.  

Until things go under control,  it is not wise for older people to travel anyway whether it is a cruise or a land trip.  We are in that group and my husband is a very healthy 87 years old.  He can do stationary bike 30 min without any stress for example.  But he ain't to risk it to travel, even just a couple hours away from home, to use up our credit card annual hotel free night cert (could be used at $600 a night hotel in Miami area or up the coast to Vero Beach)  We will forfeit it instead as the cert expires on Mar 26. 

[RocketMan275]

1 hour ago, Colo Cruiser said:

I agree........

I guess if one does not get the opinion they want to hear..............typical one sided conversation.

Exactly so. 

One can only wonder if they think blocking those with different opinions will change things?

Altogether now, let us put our fingers in our ears and chant:  "Na, na, na, I can't hear you."

Edited March 15, 2020 by RocketMan275

[ontheweb]

47 minutes ago, ohnonotmeagain said:

Are you being deliberately obtuse??? The measures are there to PROTECT YOU  not discriminate against you. 

You really can't help some people. 

That's what those doing the discriminating always say.

[Colo Cruiser]

37 minutes ago, nho9504 said:

 

It is among the proposal CLIA made to the Fed government when Pence met with them.

 

NCL is the only line requires this BEFORE CLIA even proposed such.  CLIA probably took the idea from NCL.  This will greatly affect many lines business, from the luxury lines (in particular) to the mass market higher end - from Azamara to Celebrity to Holland America to Princess - a great percentage of the passengers especially on the longer cruise would be over 70.  

Until things go under control,  it is not wise for older people to travel anyway whether it is a cruise or a land trip.  We are in that group and my husband is a very healthy 87 years old.  He can do stationary bike 30 min without any stress for example.  But he ain't to risk it to travel, even just a couple hours away from home, to use up our credit card annual hotel free night cert (could be used at $600 a night hotel in Miami area or up the coast to Vero Beach)  We will forfeit it instead as the cert expires on Mar 26. 

Thanks.....So if Princess has not adopted it yet why all the hysteria?