Bailout for Cruise Companies

[bala1130]

Interesting article below.  It said since Cruise Companies have their ships registered in countries to avoid paying US Taxes.  And they don't follow US employment rules, they should not expect any bailout money from the US Government.  This is probably true.  Thoughts?

 

https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2020/03/17/43175677/struggling-cruise-ship-corporations-should-not-get-aid-from-the-us-government

[sparks1093]

There is a thread going right now on this very topic. I think the aid given by the US government, if any, should be limited. Cruising isn't a necessity.

[Builder31]

IMO cruise industry will not get a bailout. Every business in the US is going to need assistance or a bailout. Cruise industry is near the bottom of the list due to the reasons mentioned. I’m a frequent cruiser and would oppose a bailout unless all ships were to be registered in the US and the companies started paying US taxes.


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[drsel]

A bail out is highly unlikely

[LMaxwell]

Without knowing the duration of the crisis talks of bailouts are premature. Otherwise everyone is correct these are not US companies. They have exploited flags of convenience for years to avoid taxes and labor laws. When they are caught grossly polluting US waters they are fined and continue polluting.  They've enjoyed record profits for half a decade or more and have been buying back stocks to drive up share prices.  Wasn't Frank delrio from NCL compensated $25m per year?  

 

[klfrodo]

Interesting piece, however, I wouldn't put The Stranger at the top of my most trusted journalism rags. It's right up there with Huffington Post and/or Brietbart. Both on the extreme edges of journalism integrity.

[NavyCruiser]

[BND]

1 hour ago, Builder31 said:

IMO cruise industry will not get a bailout. Every business in the US is going to need assistance or a bailout. Cruise industry is near the bottom of the list due to the reasons mentioned. I’m a frequent cruiser and would oppose a bailout unless all ships were to be registered in the US and the companies started paying US taxes.


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You mean that cruisers start paying the US taxes because, like every business it will be a pass through and will increase the cost of cruises.  Also, expect to pay sales tax on top of the taxes and port fees already paid.  

[grandgeezer]

6 minutes ago, BND said:

You mean that cruisers start paying the US taxes because, like every business it will be a pass through and will increase the cost of cruises.  Also, expect to pay sales tax on top of the taxes and port fees already paid.  

 

If that's what it takes.

[jrapps]

1 hour ago, Builder31 said:

IMO cruise industry will not get a bailout. Every business in the US is going to need assistance or a bailout. Cruise industry is near the bottom of the list due to the reasons mentioned. I’m a frequent cruiser and would oppose a bailout unless all ships were to be registered in the US and the companies started paying US taxes.


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Trump already said the cruise industry would get a bailout. Airlines, Cruises, Hotels, Small Businesses...those were some he specifically mentioned in one of the press conferences in the past day or so.

 

No matter what your opinion is of politics, bailouts, etc, there is no way that cruise prices don't go up as a result of this. Once things go back to some semblance of normal operations, prices will go up. They will have massive losses to recoup, and if there are strings attached to a bailout such as paying US Taxes, no matter which way you slice it, cruising will get more expensive.

[epanchenko]

7 minutes ago, jrapps said:

Trump already said the cruise industry would get a bailout. Airlines, Cruises, Hotels, Small Businesses...those were some he specifically mentioned in one of the press conferences in the past day or so.

 

No matter what your opinion is of politics, bailouts, etc, there is no way that cruise prices don't go up as a result of this. Once things go back to some semblance of normal operations, prices will go up. They will have massive losses to recoup, and if there are strings attached to a bailout such as paying US Taxes, no matter which way you slice it, cruising will get more expensive.

I imagine if they were forced to flag their ships in the US, or agree to higher U.S. regulations, I am guessing the fares would almost double to compensate having to double salaries of workers.  At that point, all the positives of cruising would go away in my mind.

[rimmit]

9 minutes ago, jrapps said:

Trump already said the cruise industry would get a bailout. Airlines, Cruises, Hotels, Small Businesses...those were some he specifically mentioned in one of the press conferences in the past day or so.

Just cuz Trump says it’s going to happen does not make it so.  It still has to pass through Congress and based on this article Congress doesn’t seem to keen on bailout cruise lines.

 

“They aren’t American,” Rep. Peter DeFazio, an Oregon Democrat and chairman of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee, told Roll Call. ”They don’t pay taxes in the United States of America.”

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.barrons.com/amp/articles/cruise-operators-seem-left-out-of-the-850-billion-stimulus-plan-their-stocks-are-sinking-again-51584464624

Edited March 19, 2020 by rimmit

[Newleno]

22 minutes ago, BND said:

You mean that cruisers start paying the US taxes because, like every business it will be a pass through and will increase the cost of cruises.  Also, expect to pay sales tax on top of the taxes and port fees already paid.  

Yes whatever it takes, if I cant cruise because of high prices C'est la vie (thats french)

[BND]

3 minutes ago, Newleno said:

Yes whatever it takes, if I cant cruise because of high prices C'est la vie (thats french)

Well, we can afford to pay more and have actually wished for years that they had kept their service at the level it used to be by keeping prices up, but I'll say it expect a reaction, the "dumbing" down of cruising to open it up to more people is a large part of what has happened in the cruise industry.  You can be all for it, but I guarantee the majority of current cruisers who say how long they save to cruise, will not be.

[jrapps]

6 minutes ago, rimmit said:

Just cuz Trump says it’s going to happen does not make it so.  It still has to pass through Congress and based on this article Congress doesn’t seem to keen on bailout cruise lines.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.barrons.com/amp/articles/cruise-operators-seem-left-out-of-the-850-billion-stimulus-plan-their-stocks-are-sinking-again-51584464624

That doesn't surprise me, the current bills are for critical infrastructure, travel, etc. If they passed something NOW that bailed out Cruises which are largely vacation/entertainment companies it would be very poor taste. But 60/90/120+ days from now once things are returning to normal then focusing on economy will be higher priority. I'm not saying I agree or don't agree with a bailout, but I'd be surprised if they don't get something. Especially if cruise ships offer themselves as floating hospitals, they will politically position themselves favorably.

[BND]

9 minutes ago, Newleno said:

Yes whatever it takes, if I cant cruise because of high prices C'est la vie (thats french)

You really had to put that in parens?  LOL.  We can afford to cruise at higher prices and currently only do JS but most people will say they can't.  I think a lot of this anger is misplaced.  You do realize that the entire international shipping industry is set up the same way?  So, expect to pay more for imports too.  It's not as simple as taxing cruise lines.

 

I'd say, set up a poll and see what people say.  If the fact that cruises could double or more in price is included in that poll, I think you'll see a real variety.

Edited March 19, 2020 by BND

[NavyCruiser]

Think about it:  

Would you want your Gov't to bail out working Americans who's being displaced by this shutdown, or Leisure Companies who purposely have their main product (ships) flagged in Foreign countries so they can hire Foreign workers?

[BND]

3 minutes ago, NavyCruiser said:

Think about it:  

Would you want your Gov't to bail out working Americans who's being displaced by this shutdown, or Leisure Companies who purposely have their main product (ships) flagged in Foreign countries so they can hire Foreign workers?

It's not illegal to do so.  Commercial shipping companies also do it as far as I know.  It's no different than any other law.  If Congress wanted to change it, they could have a long time ago, but it does impact more than cruise lines.

Edited March 19, 2020 by BND

[NavyCruiser]

I agree.  It's totally legal.

But if you choose to have your product flying foreign flag  & hire foreign workers, then don't expect to be bailed out by American tax dollars....

 

[BND]

The article the OP posted is just an opinion piece.

[BND]

1 minute ago, NavyCruiser said:

I agree.  It's totally legal.

But if you choose to have your product flying foreign flag  & hire foreign workers, then don't expect to be bailed out by American tax dollars....

 

On large corporations that trade on the US Stock Market.  There's more to this than just taxes.

 

And, all of you that have a problem with RCI's practices, why do you cruise with them?  If they're so terrible, don't spend your money on them.

Edited March 19, 2020 by BND

[Illbcruzn4life]

2 hours ago, Builder31 said:

IMO cruise industry will not get a bailout. Every business in the US is going to need assistance or a bailout. Cruise industry is near the bottom of the list due to the reasons mentioned. I’m a frequent cruiser and would oppose a bailout unless all ships were to be registered in the US and the companies started paying US taxes.


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to allow these ships to fly the U.S. flag a law would have to be passed. In todays political climate that would be a long shot at best.

[leen50]

We live 3+ hours from Galveston & cruise often In Feb. my DS & BIL flew in from Long Island, NY to cruise w/us. They took an Uber to LaGuardia & S.W. airlines to Houston. We stayed in a Hotel with them, ate at restaurants, bought gas, paid for port parking, took a tour in Galveston etc. Without having a cruise, we would have done none of these things (all in America).

The American businesses in port cities is suffering as a result.

Not looking to start a 'fight'. It's just my opinion.

[Newleno]

10 minutes ago, BND said:

On large corporations that trade on the US Stock Market.  There's more to this than just taxes.

 

And, all of you that have a problem with RCI's practices, why do you cruise with them?  If they're so terrible, don't spend your money on them.

we are not loyal to any cruiseline, cruised about 50 days since Oct13, we do it because it is cheap, I dont care if rcl is terrible or not.  If cruising is no longer cheap we wont go.  Our last cruise on royal feb 15 msy was cheap and the airfare was cheap.   one night  at the buffet I had over 40 peel and eat shrimp.  Years ago the government gave away free cheese, Cheese I love cheese - hey free or cheap I am all over it.

[RoyalC]

36 minutes ago, epanchenko said:

I imagine if they were forced to flag their ships in the US, or agree to higher U.S. regulations, I am guessing the fares would almost double to compensate having to double salaries of workers.  At that point, all the positives of cruising would go away in my mind.

Sounds about right. But some do-gooders will argue otherwise.