When cruising returns, how can the cabins be sanitized properly in such a short period of time?

[clo]

5 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

but certainly not on turn around day.

I've mentioned the possibility that they no longer have a "turn around day."Disembark one day, embark the next.

[chengkp75]

9 minutes ago, clo said:

I've mentioned the possibility that they no longer have a "turn around day."Disembark one day, embark the next.

And you're willing to pay for that extra day?

[clo]

1 hour ago, donaldsc said:

see this article\

 

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/01919510902747969?src=recsys&

Just finished this. If you don't want to read the whole thing - and parts of it were definitely "above my pay grade - go to the end for the discussion. I thought it was VERY interesting.

[clo]

1 minute ago, chengkp75 said:

And you're willing to pay for that extra day?

It's the cruise line that would "pay" for it. Why would the passenger?

[ed01106]

If the virus is still so prevalent that it is necessary to sanitize each room than it is too prevalent to have any cruises.  Occupying a room in which the prior guest had covid-19 is not more dangerous than being in an elevator or next to someone in the MDR that has the virus.  

  

[chengkp75]

4 minutes ago, clo said:

It's the cruise line that would "pay" for it. Why would the passenger?

If you think the customer doesn't pay for every expense that a business incurs, then I have a bridge to sell you.

[clo]

1 minute ago, ed01106 said:

If the virus is still so prevalent that it is necessary to sanitize each room than it is too prevalent to have any cruises.  Occupying a room in which the prior guest had covid-19 is not more dangerous than being in an elevator or next to someone in the MDR that has the virus.  

  

Oh, I've been thinking that the whole ship would go through this. Just used the cabin as a small example. And it would be in the change over between cruises.

[clo]

1 minute ago, chengkp75 said:

If you think the customer doesn't pay for every expense that a business incurs, then I have a bridge to sell you.

Now you're just being obtuse. Of course we pay for it that way. I'm assuming that fares are going up, probably WAY up.

[chengkp75]

3 minutes ago, clo said:

Oh, I've been thinking that the whole ship would go through this. Just used the cabin as a small example. And it would be in the change over between cruises.

Ah, so the entire crew has to leave the ship to avoid the dangers of ozone during this sanitation process?  Or, how do you seal off the public spaces?  Just want to look at the practicalities of something that has been tested in one hotel room.

[clo]

1 minute ago, chengkp75 said:

Ah, so the entire crew has to leave the ship to avoid the dangers of ozone during this sanitation process?  Or, how do you seal off the public spaces?  Just want to look at the practicalities of something that has been tested in one hotel room.

You didn't read the whole paper clearly.

 

[ed01106]

5 minutes ago, clo said:

Oh, I've been thinking that the whole ship would go through this. Just used the cabin as a small example. And it would be in the change over between cruises.

Once again.  Same comment.  The danger of contracting the disease from current passengers greatly outweighs the danger of contracting it from prior passengers.  The MDR doesn’t need a more significant cleaning between cruises than it does between seatings.

 

[clo]

1 minute ago, ed01106 said:

Once again.  Same comment.  The danger of contracting the disease from current passengers greatly outweighs the danger of contracting it from prior passengers.  The MDR doesn’t need a more significant cleaning between cruises than it does between seatings.

 

I'm thinking in terms of no cruising until there's a vaccine. And you show proof of vaccination prior to boarding and if you don't you don't get to travel

[SRF]

10 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

From what I've seen, the recommended contact time for hydrogen peroxide is one minute.  I'm not sure that a spray of this, or a fog, would last this long before drying out.

Yes, peroxide is slightly acidic.

Peroxide will break down paint finishes as well.  And, I've spent my working career in cabins outfitted with metal furniture, and there is nothing it resembles more than a prison or a military barracks.

 

Hydrogen peroxide is a power oxidant.

 

And will bleach colors from things.  Used to be used to make blondes. 🙂

[clo]

1 minute ago, SRF said:

 

Hydrogen peroxide is a power oxidant.

 

And will bleach colors from things.  Used to be used to make blondes. 🙂

Depends upon the concentration. The stuff in the brown bottle that pharmacies sell won't bleach.

[chengkp75]

6 minutes ago, clo said:

You didn't read the whole paper clearly.

 

Oh, I'm sorry, they tested it in one office and one hotel room.  Both a little larger than a balcony cabin.  Did they do any testing as to how far the device could project the ozone spray and still be effective?  So, I guess there will be several hundred units on the ship, since each cabin requires an hour at ambient humidity (which will be higher than normal ship's humidity), and then each passageway, and each bar, and each restaurant, and each theater, and how many units will be needed for the theater that is many times larger than the 42m3 that was the largest tested?  And then moving the equipment to the next space, and repeat.  And, the engine rooms?  How do you do that?  If you generate ozone into the engine room, the engines will just ingest it for combustion, and you'll never reach the required levels of ozone.  Or, you shut the whole ship down while doing this?  Guess that's only possible where shore power is available.  Again, I'm an engineer.  I look at what is practical and possible, not what would be ideal or "nice to have".  Popular Mechanics has been full of ideas over the decades of things to make our lives better, and the vast majority of them have never come to fruition.

[ontheweb]

25 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Oh, I'm sorry, they tested it in one office and one hotel room.  Both a little larger than a balcony cabin.  Did they do any testing as to how far the device could project the ozone spray and still be effective?  So, I guess there will be several hundred units on the ship, since each cabin requires an hour at ambient humidity (which will be higher than normal ship's humidity), and then each passageway, and each bar, and each restaurant, and each theater, and how many units will be needed for the theater that is many times larger than the 42m3 that was the largest tested?  And then moving the equipment to the next space, and repeat.  And, the engine rooms?  How do you do that?  If you generate ozone into the engine room, the engines will just ingest it for combustion, and you'll never reach the required levels of ozone.  Or, you shut the whole ship down while doing this?  Guess that's only possible where shore power is available.  Again, I'm an engineer.  I look at what is practical and possible, not what would be ideal or "nice to have".  Popular Mechanics has been full of ideas over the decades of things to make our lives better, and the vast majority of them have never come to fruition.

In the words of Ringo Starr, "It ain't easy".

[donaldsc]

2 hours ago, Mike981 said:

If I remember correctly, ozone generators are not good for the lungs.

 

You would not use the ozone generators in a room w people in it.

 

DON

[Joebucks]

1 hour ago, ed01106 said:

If the virus is still so prevalent that it is necessary to sanitize each room than it is too prevalent to have any cruises.  Occupying a room in which the prior guest had covid-19 is not more dangerous than being in an elevator or next to someone in the MDR that has the virus.  

  

 

Because it's rarely about fact or logic. Myths and perceptions win.

 

I have a better question for the thread. How many people have gotten ill from a room that "was not properly sanitized?" I'm probably not going to lick the toilet seat anytime soon, but what are you really expecting and what is reality?

[Mike981]

2 hours ago, donaldsc said:

 

You would not use the ozone generators in a room w people in it.

 

DON

 

Good point. I wonder how long the room would need to be un-occupied.

[clo]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

they tested it in one office and one hotel room. 

My apology. When I read about the lab they used for some of the tests I didn't notice the size of it. The clinical lab where I worked - not CDC - was an enormous space and I visualized that. But regardless I'd like to think that some of these things could be incorporated into future actions/policies. And if fares go up, so be it. Seems like there are plenty of people here who would pay (almost) anything to cruise.

[chengkp75]

26 minutes ago, clo said:

 Seems like there are plenty of people here who would pay (almost) anything to cruise.

Right, the same people who have for years here on CC complained about rising fares, not getting OBC for any number of reasons, and "nickle and dime-ing", and how much the DSC goes up and how to remove it.

[clo]

18 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Right, the same people who have for years here on CC complained about rising fares, not getting OBC for any number of reasons, and "nickle and dime-ing", and how much the DSC goes up and how to remove it.

I wonder if they truly do any land travel. I've read about high end hotels that charge a 'pretty penny' for an ice bucket, not filled

[mammajamma2013]

5 hours ago, clo said:

I'm thinking in terms of no cruising until there's a vaccine. And you show proof of vaccination prior to boarding and if you don't you don't get to travel

I keep hearing about a vaccine being available in a year to eighteen months. Sorry, no specific articles to link, just what is being said. I doubt cruise lines are willing to wait that long before sailing again. If they're hurting after a two months closure (according to speculation on the Cruise Critic boards), they'll certainly go under if having to wait twelve to eighteen months.

 

I would love a vaccine to be available but I doubt it will happen sooner than that.

[clo]

1 minute ago, mammajamma2013 said:

I keep hearing about a vaccine being available in a year to eighteen months. Sorry, no specific articles to link, just what is being said. I doubt cruise lines are willing to wait that long before sailing again. If they're hurting after a two months closure (according to speculation on the Cruise Critic boards), they'll certainly go under if having to wait twelve to eighteen months.

 

I would love a vaccine to be available but I doubt it will happen sooner than that.

I'm not a lawyer but I wonder. If they return to cruising against the advice of the government, will they have legal liability? I'm sure there are already going to be hundreds if not thousands of law suits.

[clo]

29 minutes ago, mammajamma2013 said:

I keep hearing about a vaccine being available in a year to eighteen months. Sorry, no specific articles to link, just what is being said. I doubt cruise lines are willing to wait that long before sailing again. If they're hurting after a two months closure (according to speculation on the Cruise Critic boards), they'll certainly go under if having to wait twelve to eighteen months.

 

I would love a vaccine to be available but I doubt it will happen sooner than that.

I agree with you. Drugs, including vaccines, really must go through clinical trials. If that corner is cut people can die.