When cruising returns, how can the cabins be sanitized properly in such a short period of time?

[clo]

With the gap between one group disembarking and another embarking, there's not very much time. Since the virus can live for at least a few hours, how can the cabins (and other areas) be adequately sanitized. I'm guessing that in the past it was pretty the same cleaning as was done daily with a smidge more. But are they going to be truly sanitizing surfaces? Furniture, doors, hardware, windows, and on and on and on? It's crossed my mind that perhaps the next group won't board til the following day. Or maybe they'll contract with a shore-based cleaning business to bring in a large group to do it? Thoughts?

[xDisconnections]

Fun fact: they do not have the manpower/staffing available to do a thorough and deep clean in between passengers. Similar to hotels where housekeepers generally have an average of 23 minutes in between rooms, the stateroom stewards have a very short time window to have a room completely serviced. Rooms are only cleaned to the level where it appears to be clean despite it not being the cleanest. It’s not uncommon to find items belonging to previous passengers in your rooms... and they are inspected.

 

The cruise lines, like other companies, may suggest they will be doing additional cleaning but may not exactly be transparent with that statement. Room cleanliness standards may be the same as before with no actual changes.

Edited April 1, 2020 by xDisconnections

[clo]

42 minutes ago, xDisconnections said:

Fun fact: they do not have the manpower/staffing available to do a thorough and deep clean in between passengers. Similar to hotels where housekeepers generally have an average of 23 minutes in between rooms, the stateroom stewards have a very short time window to have a room completely serviced. Rooms are only cleaned to the level where it appears to be clean despite it not being the cleanest. It’s not uncommon to find items belonging to previous passengers in your rooms... and they are inspected.

 

The cruise lines, like other companies, may suggest they will be doing additional cleaning but may not exactly be transparent with that statement. Room cleanliness standards may be the same as before with no actual changes.

Thanks for supporting what I'm thinking. It's not like noro-virus which rarely kills. It seems like they'd need to come in and spray disinfectant everywhere. I've mentioned before that we're the last thing from germophobes but this does give pause.

[zqvol]

All they have to do is spray everything with a proper hydrogen peroxide solution and let it air dry. That is probably the easiest and most effective way to sanitize a cabin, and could be applied with a backpack sprayer like your lawn guy uses. It would add maybe 1 minute per cabin.

[clo]

2 minutes ago, zqvol said:

All they have to do is spray everything with a proper hydrogen peroxide solution and let it air dry. That is probably the easiest and most effective way to sanitize a cabin, and could be applied with a backpack sprayer like your lawn guy uses. It would add maybe 1 minute per cabin.

Thanks. Would it damage the surface of the wood? Not that *I* care

[compman9]

2 hours ago, clo said:

Thanks. Would it damage the surface of the wood? Not that *I* care

 

Simple solution - Don't have any wood !!!

 

RCI are building news ships right now, so they could do it

[chengkp75]

6 hours ago, zqvol said:

All they have to do is spray everything with a proper hydrogen peroxide solution and let it air dry. That is probably the easiest and most effective way to sanitize a cabin, and could be applied with a backpack sprayer like your lawn guy uses. It would add maybe 1 minute per cabin.

From what I've seen, the recommended contact time for hydrogen peroxide is one minute.  I'm not sure that a spray of this, or a fog, would last this long before drying out.

6 hours ago, clo said:

Thanks. Would it damage the surface of the wood? Not that *I* care

Yes, peroxide is slightly acidic.

3 hours ago, compman9 said:

 

Simple solution - Don't have any wood !!!

 

RCI are building news ships right now, so they could do it

Peroxide will break down paint finishes as well.  And, I've spent my working career in cabins outfitted with metal furniture, and there is nothing it resembles more than a prison or a military barracks.

[sandancer]

Extreme I know and I expect many people will disagree with me but my answer is to do as much as I can myself. I was already doing so before all of this nightmare. It is simply a fact that the cabin attendant cannot deep clean every cabin and when cruising resumes I expect that things will go back to the usual routine. I carry antibacterial wipes (2 packs on our recent cruise) and clean every surface in the cabin paying special attention to the tv remote and the telephone. I clean these every day. So I expect now that some people will say that they shouldn’t have to do any of this and I agree but in 62 cruises neither of us have ever gotten ill (other than me being seasick now and again). I can do a little cleaning if it keeps us safe. 

[gerryuk]

OK, how many people have cruised in the last 10 years? As the vast majority of cruise ship cabins have had 100% occupancy rate over those years, am I the only one who thinks these cabins are safe and clean? How many people out of the millions who cruise have become ill on a cruise ship?, how many of those would still have become ill, if they stayed at home and never went near a cruise ship? And most importantly, how many of those who became ill on a cruise ship, are ill, because of the cruise ship?

For me, there is absolutely no evidence that I am more at risk catching a disease going on a cruise ship than staying in a swanky hotel. If there is evidence, then please share.

As for the cabins, they should obviously be cleaned down during turnover, but I for one do not want them to be sprayed down with chemicals for this, chemicals for that, god only knows what are in some of these chemicals. 

Its time to stop panicking, good basic hygiene and cleaning from staff and customers is all that is required, by the sheer millions upon millions who cruise and have never become ill, it has obviously worked.

 

 

[iancal]

I do not think that it will be an issue.  I do not envisage that in one short period all cruise ships will be active.   At best I believe that we will see  gradual return to operations.   It would not surprise me if some ships do not return to service and some cruise lines cease to exist, or if they do with smaller fleets.

[clo]

4 hours ago, sandancer said:

Extreme I know and I expect many people will disagree with me but my answer is to do as much as I can myself. I was already doing so before all of this nightmare. It is simply a fact that the cabin attendant cannot deep clean every cabin and when cruising resumes I expect that things will go back to the usual routine. I carry antibacterial wipes (2 packs on our recent cruise) and clean every surface in the cabin paying special attention to the tv remote and the telephone. I clean these every day. So I expect now that some people will say that they shouldn’t have to do any of this and I agree but in 62 cruises neither of us have ever gotten ill (other than me being seasick now and again). I can do a little cleaning if it keeps us safe. 

Well, antibacterial wipes aren't going to kill viruses. And #2 you "clean every surface"? The walls, the doors, the windows, etc.? We're talking about a virus that can live a certain amount of time on surfaces.

[clo]

3 hours ago, gerryuk said:

OK, how many people have cruised in the last 10 years?

This virus didn't exist in humans until a few months ago. IMO it's a whole new ball game.  As to hotels, from what I read a whole lot of them have shut down either voluntarily or due to mandates. As I've said, I'm the last thing from a germophobe but *I'M* not going to a hotel or a cruise ship until something is proposed and acted on.

[beachbum53]

My suggestion is, do what you need to do to protect yourself prior to going on vacation, whether it's a cruise or land-based vacation. Make sure you're up to date on all of your inoculations, and that you're in relatively good health prior to departure. We do not live in a sterile world. There is no way to make and keep a cruise ship, airplane, hotel, restaurant, or any tourist destination 100% germ or virus free. Stop worrying about "what ifs". Let yourself relax and go have a great vacation. If you can't, then stay at home. 

[mom says]

45 minutes ago, clo said:

And #2 you "clean every surface"? The walls, the doors, the windows, etc.? We're talking about a virus that can live a certain amount of time on surfaces

Do you think any lingering viruses are going to leap at you from the nearest wall, door, or window if you get near to it? Unless you are licking them, or rubbing your hands all over them and then sticking your fingers in your mouth or up your nose, they are unlikely to lose a problem. Antiseptic wipes (not antibacterial) used on commonly touched surfaces like door knobs and TV remotes, as many have done for years, is likely all that is required. The world is not a sterile place. Expecting a cruise ship to be any different is an unrealistic expectation.

[clo]

29 minutes ago, beachbum53 said:

Stop worrying about "what ifs".

There's a big difference between worrying, which I rarely do about anything, and preparing. 

 

I don't expect a cruise ship, cleanliness wise, to be any better than an airplane or a hotel...or numerous other places.

 

I think this world has gotten a wake up call. How one operated before may not be how one will go in the future. An open mind is crucially important all the time, especially now.

[flyingron]

With the amount of time cruiseships (with the exception of those that are currently stuck with stranded passengers aboard) are going to sit idle, it's doubtful that there's anything lingering from the last trips.   Despite the headlines, cov-2 duration on surfaces is measured in hours not weeks.   The 17-day statement was not that they found live viruses but they found lingering RNA pieces (which is not alive or a threat).     A bigger issue is more conventional mold and the like from sitting idle.

Most cruise lines have a sanitizing plan just because of prior problems like norovirus.

[clo]

3 minutes ago, flyingron said:

With the amount of time cruiseships (with the exception of those that are currently stuck with stranded passengers aboard) are going to sit idle, it's doubtful that there's anything lingering from the last trips.   Despite the headlines, cov-2 duration on surfaces is measured in hours not weeks.   The 17-day statement was not that they found live viruses but they found lingering RNA pieces (which is not alive or a threat).     A bigger issue is more conventional mold and the like from sitting idle.

Most cruise lines have a sanitizing plan just because of prior problems like norovirus.

Oh, I wasn't talking about current cooties. But this virus could reappear. Barring a vaccine I think we'll be living with it in some form for the next year or more.

 

BTW what is that "sanitizing plan" please? And, yes, I acknowledged hours and not days of viability. And wondered if there's enough time  between departing and arriving pax.

[flyingron]

Your risk factor is most likely your CURRENT fellow cruisers, not the stuff left over from the last voyage.   It is still unclear how much is actually spread from surface contact as it is.    Most of the outbreaks have been directly attributable to restricted spaces (crowds, ships, airplanes, working in healthcare) with infected people, not coming across it lingering in the wild.

Edited April 1, 2020 by flyingron

[c-boy]

[donaldsc]

20 hours ago, clo said:

With the gap between one group disembarking and another embarking, there's not very much time. Since the virus can live for at least a few hours, how can the cabins (and other areas) be adequately sanitized. I'm guessing that in the past it was pretty the same cleaning as was done daily with a smidge more. But are they going to be truly sanitizing surfaces? Furniture, doors, hardware, windows, and on and on and on? It's crossed my mind that perhaps the next group won't board til the following day. Or maybe they'll contract with a shore-based cleaning business to bring in a large group to do it? Thoughts?

 

I am sure that they will contract out the cleaning to professionals who do this sort of stuff for a loving.  Also, I wonder if also putting ozone generators into the rooms would help as ozone is used to disinfect rooms - see this article\

 

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/01919510902747969?src=recsys&

 

DON

[clo]

5 minutes ago, donaldsc said:

 

I am sure that they will contract out the cleaning to professionals who do this sort of stuff for a loving.  Also, I wonder if also putting ozone generators into the rooms would help as ozone is used to disinfect rooms - see this article\

 

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/01919510902747969?src=recsys&

 

DON

It will take me a while to read that whole paper but so far I'm VERY impressed. Thanks a LOT for sharing.

[Mike981]

If I remember correctly, ozone generators are not good for the lungs.

[clo]

19 minutes ago, Mike981 said:

If I remember correctly, ozone generators are not good for the lungs.

Have you read the whole paper?

[Mike981]

23 minutes ago, clo said:

Have you read the whole paper?

 

Not the paper linked above. I'm going back when I used to smoke cigars in the house and tried an ozone generator and a double Hepa filter unit. A friend shared information that the ozone is not good for you. Here is a link to an article from the EPA. I didn't read all of it, but you cam get the drift. It could be as simple as a home version is bad and an industrial version of the generator is better. Who knows for sure.

Edited April 1, 2020 by Mike981

[chengkp75]

Well, I didn't read the whole paper, but from the first couple of minutes I see some problems.  First, they are talking about the sanitation efficacy of aqueous solutions of ozone.  So, they require a 90% humidity at the time of peak ozone generation to form an aqueous solution to distribute onto surfaces.  How are you going to raise the humidity to a near steam room in each cabin, and then lower it back to normal levels quickly.  The third paragraph states that one of the disadvantages of using ozone is the "potential toxicity to humans".  "The recognition of the risk of pathologic consequences following exposure of people and experimental animals to ozone gas has led to restrictions in its use in public areas."  To mitigate the potential hazard to humans, they suggest sealing the room to prevent escape of gas and then using a catalytic converter to convert the ozone back to oxygen.  So, all ventilation to the cabin needs to be stopped, all ducts sealed, and the cabin turned into a steam room, and even then it required 20 minutes to reach acceptable reductions in viruses, or at ambient humidity it took an hour.  Hardly a practical solution for a cruise ship at any time, but certainly not on turn around day.