It's even worse than we thought

[dog]

1 hour ago, Abercrombie2019 said:

The airline in question has only posted a notice on their website.  It is not possible to get through to a person.  The third party website only emailed me (automated email) after waiting more than three weeks.  They only wanted me to respond with a “yes” to the voucher.  If my response is “no”, which it was, they don’t want to hear from me.  They will send the refund when they get around to it.  

I hope that everyone’s refunds get processed.  (I’m supposed to be working from home right now, so I better get back to work.  It’s too easy to get distracted.)

In this case I personally would file a dispute with the credit card company call them first and they will tell you if your situation fits the criteria to dispute. I read about a company I have booked vacations with ACVac. In Ontario. A consumer article I read yesterday pointed out this voucher offer. Advice was same as I mention above. 

[Potstech]

3 hours ago, mnocket said:

 

If I get you correctly, it sounds like you believe speculation is worthless.  I couldn't disagree more.  Speculation, in the absence of reliable information, is the foundation of good decision making.  For example, government's responses to the pandemic is based largely on speculation.  The true facts of the pandemic won't be known until well after the crisis has passed.  That means governments must make decisions based on speculations - e.g. "what do we THINK will happen if we do A vs B vs C?.

 

Of much less consequence, but the heart of this discussion, people are speculating about the recovery time-frame for the cruise industry.  Why?  Well it's an important consideration for making future vacation plans.  One can only speculate as to when Princess will resume cruising and whether or not the published itineraries will change, but based on each person's "best guess", they will plan for their vacation future.

No where did I post that speculation is worthless. Speculation in the absence of reliable information is also the foundation of bad decision making. Your government example shows exactly that. I will stand by my post and thank you for showing why..

[Cindy]

The airlines (United, Delta, Alaska, and Hawaiian) have all refunded in less than 10 days. I am quite sure that they are also processing as many if not more than each of the cruise lines.
 
My refund from Princess is for a cancellation prior to final payment date.  Nothing special.  Canceled prior to suspension of cruising was announced. They managed to refund pre-paid Gratuities in 4 days.  Returned the FCCs for the deposit to my account in two.  They stated at the time of cancellation that it should take 10 days.  So far over 40 days.
 
This does have all the signs of them intentionally slow walking  refunds as part of their cash management. 
 
At 60 days I start sending letters to the appropriate state attorney generals, after all most state laws require refunds to be processed in a reasonable time frame.  Get enough people doing so, trigger a few letters and investigation there and it might shake something loose.

It’s certainly not just Princess. I made a deposit on an Oceania cruise on February 22 and cancelled it on February 23. I’m STILL waiting for my refund.

I spoke with them on Monday, April 6, and they told me for some reason it wasn’t processed.[emoji849] The person I spoke with assured me he took care of it, and I would have my refund in no more than 7 days. Guess what? I’m calling again tomorrow.


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[npcl]

1 hour ago, Cindy said:

 

It’s certainly not just Princess. I made a deposit on an Oceania cruise on February 22 and cancelled it on February 23. I’m STILL waiting for my refund.

I spoke with them on Monday, April 6, and they told me for some reason it wasn’t processed. The person I spoke with assured me he took care of it, and I would have my refund in no more than 7 days. Guess what? I’m calling again tomorrow.


Sent from my iPad using Forums

 

Oh I consider all of the cruise lines are doing the same thing.  All of the CCL owned lines seem to be.

[caribill]

This article in Business Week does not paint a good picture

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2020-carnival-cruise-coronavirus/?srnd=businessweek-v2

[mnocket]

19 hours ago, Potstech said:

No where did I post that speculation is worthless. Speculation in the absence of reliable information is also the foundation of bad decision making. Your government example shows exactly that. I will stand by my post and thank you for showing why..

So sorry for misinterpreting your post.  Somehow I didn't read it as supportive of speculation - just the opposite, I thought you were implying that people's speculations in this forum were useless.  Glad to see we are on the same page

[bluesea321]

36 minutes ago, caribill said:

This article in Business Week does not paint a good picture

https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2020-carnival-cruise-coronavirus/?srnd=businessweek-v2

 

WOW, that was some article and I agree, it does not paint a good picture.  The comments from Cindy Friedman, the epidemiologist who leads the CDC’s cruise ship task force, are particularly damning; an indication of the CDC's future view of the industry.

[mnocket]

57 minutes ago, caribill said:

This article in Business Week does not paint a good picture

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2020-carnival-cruise-coronavirus/?srnd=businessweek-v2

 

I just read today that a woman is suing Princess for her husband's death due to Covid19

 

At first I thought she didn't stand much of a chance, but having read your post I have to say this is likely the first of many.

[PORT ROYAL]

14 minutes ago, mnocket said:

 

I just read today that a woman is suing Princess for her husband's death due to Covid19

 

At first I thought she didn't stand much of a chance, but having read your post I have to say this is likely the first of many.

 

Quite simple, was a Covid 19 risk assessment conducted in accordance with their correct published corporate procedures?  What are the published correct corporate procedures for Covid19, how are they implemented, and were they correctly conducted?

Evidence please......

Think it may be all over for Princess.

 

 

 

Edited April 16, 2020 by PORT ROYAL

[need2cruisesoon]

12 minutes ago, PORT ROYAL said:

 

Quite simple, was a Covid 19 risk assessment conducted in accordance with their correct published corporate procedures?  What are the published correct corporate procedures for Covid19, how are they implemented, and were they correctly conducted?

Evidence please......

Think it may be all over for Princess.

 

 

 

 

Not good news for Carnival Corp:

 

https://nypost.com/2020/04/16/carnival-execs-let-ships-set-sail-despite-coronavirus-threat-report/

Edited April 16, 2020 by need2cruisesoon

[happy cruzer]

Does anyone have details about the suit by the Texas woman, Susan Dorety?  Where did she file?  Usually someone can find the actual suit and post it.  

 

Any other suits that actually have been filed?  Just wondering about whether the suits are in the courts or in out of court "arbitration"?

[Cruise Raider]

1 hour ago, happy cruzer said:

Does anyone have details about the suit by the Texas woman, Susan Dorety?  Where did she file?  Usually someone can find the actual suit and post it.  

 

Any other suits that actually have been filed?  Just wondering about whether the suits are in the courts or in out of court "arbitration"?

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/coronavirus/crowley-woman-sues-princess-cruises-after-husband-dies-from-coronavirus/2352268/

 

It's embedded on this page. 

Do not mistake that my posting this as an indicator that I am in agreement with this.  

 

I would be remiss to not also include this link in the post.  

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/old-maritime-rules-pose-obstacles-lawsuits-princess-cruise-passengers-n1185791

[amajaa]

On 4/5/2020 at 1:51 PM, Daniel A said:

I think the number of cruisers and other travelers purchasing Cancel For Any Reason insurance will dramatically increase.  Watch what happens to the cost of travel  insurance as it becomes more appealing.

Wow we don’t have anything like that in UK, we can only claim if have a valid reason and they check carefully to make you aren’t trying it on.

[happy cruzer]

38 minutes ago, Cruise Raider said:

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/coronavirus/crowley-woman-sues-princess-cruises-after-husband-dies-from-coronavirus/2352268/

 

It's embedded on this page. 

Do not mistake that my posting this as an indicator that I am in agreement with this.  

 

I would be remiss to not also include this link in the post.  

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/old-maritime-rules-pose-obstacles-lawsuits-princess-cruise-passengers-n1185791

Thank you for the link.  Case was filed in CA.  Just with a cursory look, I'm thinking it could be 50/50 if it is successful.

[Bgwest]

2 hours ago, happy cruzer said:

Thank you for the link.  Case was filed in CA.  Just with a cursory look, I'm thinking it could be 50/50 if it is successful.

All of this is extremely interesting to me and to my family. 

 

Are you a maritime lawyer? If so, would truly appreciate hearing more from you and your thinking on the reasoning behind your 50/50 conclusion. 

[LMaxwell]

On 4/16/2020 at 2:36 PM, mnocket said:

 

I just read today that a woman is suing Princess for her husband's death due to Covid19

 

At first I thought she didn't stand much of a chance, but having read your post I have to say this is likely the first of many.

 

Carnival has stated they are expecting a number of lawsuits. How many are with merit will remain to be seen and I won't say negative things about a plaintiff until all facts are displayed, but it seems to be the case that Carnival expects whether through judgement or settlement that this will cost significant money. 

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

1 hour ago, LMaxwell said:

 

Carnival has stated they are expecting a number of lawsuits. How many are with merit will remain to be seen and I won't say negative things about a plaintiff until all facts are displayed, but it seems to be the case that Carnival expects whether through judgement or settlement that this will cost significant money. 

The grim news for the cruise lines continues coming in:

 https://crew-center.com/costa-cruises-doctor-dies-after-testing-positive-covid-19

[mnocket]

2 hours ago, LMaxwell said:

 

Carnival has stated they are expecting a number of lawsuits. How many are with merit will remain to be seen and I won't say negative things about a plaintiff until all facts are displayed, but it seems to be the case that Carnival expects whether through judgement or settlement that this will cost significant money. 

 

We will get some insight when they make their next financial filing. If they expect significant legal exposure, they will have to identified the potential magnitude and indicate whether or not they have set aside reserves to cover them. 

[joejoe 59]

2 hours ago, LMaxwell said:

 

Carnival has stated they are expecting a number of lawsuits. How many are with merit will remain to be seen and I won't say negative things about a plaintiff until all facts are displayed, but it seems to be the case that Carnival expects whether through judgement or settlement that this will cost significant money. 

With over 20 Australians dead after sailing on the Ruby I expect there to be a lot more people filing lawsuits.  I know there is already a class action on the go.

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

The base of potential plaintiffs surely appears substantial:

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article241914096.html

[Cruise Raider]

47 minutes ago, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

The base of potential plaintiffs surely appears substantial:

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article241914096.html

 

Within the article, it states:

 

“We haven’t seen massive outbreaks at hotels and resorts, nothing like what we’ve seen from the cruise industry,” Weitz said. “The challenge they face is that unfortunately they are different from an arena, or even a hotel, because it’s the nature of cruise ships. It’s the same reason why the Navy ships are also having COVID-19 issues. This is a very infectious virus. It spreads when you’re in enclosed spaces.”

 

How do they know that it wasn't the hotel prior to the cruise (or the airline or transportation to the pier ... or from a restaurant or the grocery store, for that matter or even while in port, maybe on an excursion) where the passenger was originally infected?  We know it is extremely infectious ... seems like the cruise ship is where their symptoms developed.  I'm sure it isn't just enclosed spaces where this can spread as the article indicates.  It is human to human transmission and that can happen anywhere.  If it can't, I'm really irritated that I have to don a mask every time I take a walk in the neighborhood now.  The legal defense will be all over this, though.  

Edited April 23, 2020 by Cruise Raider

[bluesea321]

53 minutes ago, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

The base of potential plaintiffs surely appears substantial:

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article241914096.html

 

Very interesting article, thanks.  Looking at the data, CCL has a disproportionate large number of cases whereas NCL has a low number.  I wonder why (not way to know).

[easykruz]

Thanks to everyone for posting all the articles.

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

2 hours ago, bluesea321 said:

 

Very interesting article, thanks.  Looking at the data, CCL has a disproportionate large number of cases whereas NCL has a low number.  I wonder why (not way to know).

 

Yes  - it's stunningly disproportionate, isn't it. 

Personally, it seems unfortunate since Princess had become our favorite line. But its name is just all over this fiasco.  

[getting older slowly]

2 hours ago, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

 

Yes  - it's stunningly disproportionate, isn't it. 

Personally, it seems unfortunate since Princess had become our favorite line. But its name is just all over this fiasco.  

 

Even if you remove the Diamond Princess numbers   

The total cases is a bit higher,  in proportion to Royal Caribbean

 but there have been way more deaths on Princess than Royal Caribbean

 

You would have thought after the Diamond event.. they would have stopped all cruising

 

Cheers Don