Europe still closed until May 15 at the least

[njhorseman]

Just now, clo said:

Thanks. But how do they get permission to leave US waters.

I'll repeat what I've already said a couple of times on this thread. I don't see where the order prohibits them from leaving . Common sense suggests that we would be very happy if they left. Even if I'm wrong and the order technically does prevent them leaving the order could easily be amended.

[Maikell]

4 minutes ago, clo said:

Thanks. But how do they get permission to leave US waters.

they say on the news here that european cruiselines has been forced by US government in conjunction with the CDC outcome

[clo]

23 minutes ago, Roger88 said:

By September it should be alright

And you base that on what? 

[YoHoHo]

Don't mean to dampen your spirits and not saying these things will come to pass or affect your and your situation but in this dynamic and new economic situation, things can change unexpectedly.

 

9 hours ago, Paulchili said:

I am more like 80/20 in favor of getting the refund. By law they are obligated to do so unless they go into Chapter 11 - which I doubt at this point.

 

The laws that apply could change, or their interpretation. I honestly don't know the law (or laws) that would be applied. More than one law or set of regulations could conflict and well... that is what courts are for.

 

An example is with airline refunds. The airlines T & Cs said that in a certain set of conditions they will give refunds but they changed to only give credits instead. USA and EUR regulators ruled that the airlines must give refunds. USA regulators included international carriers if they flew to USA. Canada's air transport regulators just a few days prior to that ruled that the current situation could not have been foreseen when the regs were written requiring refunds and as force majeure they consider credits sufficient. And were does that leave a CDN pax flying from Toronto to Miami on say, Air Canada? What a mess. I hope Canada will come into line with EUR and USA.

 

Point is rules might not be what they seems to be or were. Lawyers are busy I think.

 

9 hours ago, Paulchili said:

I seldom get extra insurance but I have one for this cruise - let's hope I don't need to use it and can use the credit for a future insurance (which I recently found out that one can do that).

Yes, for me that is a big benefit of having purchased insurance and then get an FCC. If your insurance provider allows the policy to "follow" the FCC then not just saving the cost of the insurance but you might be covered *now*  - so depending on when you bought the policy you *might* have covid-19 coverage yet new policies do not, already have preexisting condition waiver, etc. Coverage is very specific to your policy and interpretations and your insurer's governing body (ours just clarified its position on a rule last week that is not trivial to my claim :{ ) I cannot speak to anyone's policy or coverage other than my own so you should get advice from your insurer but this could be a good benefit.

 

9 hours ago, Paulchili said:

Here is hoping for the best for many reasons!

+1

 

[Paulchili]

YoHoHo - thanks for that exhaustive explanation.

To paraphrase Liza -

Maybe this time, I'll be lucky 

Maybe this time, they'll pay 😀

[YoHoHo]

4 hours ago, roger b said:

 Further to this post a very interesting article in today guardian newspaper !!!

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/apr/11/cruise-firms-face-off-the-scale-challenge-in-wake-of-coronavirus

I was thinking I might post the same link, roger then I noticed Cintpam commenting on your post. I had missed yours as there are so many posts on so many threads now. I have been following financial news (elsewhere) and while the money side of it has speculation too but certainly seems that CCLs position is best. I thought the article you linked to had some good both sides points and was more upbeat with the stories of those who are eager to sail.

[roger b]

On 4/11/2020 at 4:29 PM, roger b said:

 European ports will not open any time soon  !!! We are being told by our media that this virus is going to be going on for 18 months and social distancing is going to be the norm from from now on until a vaccine is found . Personally I have not this grim view of life ahead as a a cure will be found.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1267752/UK-Coronavirus-lockdown-latest-vaccine-Dominic-Raab-Matt-Hancock

 

 

 Further to my post on Oceania bringing  Marina and Riviera across to Europe , I don't now see this happening as  French border could be closed until October 30th .

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8212973/European-Commission-President-Ursula-von-der-Leyen-warns-people-against-making-summer-holiday-plans.html

[pingpong1]

4 hours ago, roger b said:

 

 Further to my post on Oceania bringing  Marina and Riviera across to Europe , I don't now see this happening as  French border could be closed until October 30th .

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8212973/European-Commission-President-Ursula-von-der-Leyen-warns-people-against-making-summer-holiday-plans.html

Hi Roger - Thanks for the link.  Very Informative.  Sometimes it's difficult for us in the U.S. to get actual "facts on the ground" or know what's actually happening in various European/UK countries and areas, travel-wise.  For the most part, it doesn't affect most Americans over here too much, so our newspapers usually "stuff" their pages with US-focused news that's going on, instead.

 

Subsequent to our conversation (and your thoughts the other day about Riviera's summer re-positioning plans),  we cancelled our "Riviera" TA in October from Rome to Miami before we entered into any "cancellation penalty" or "admin-fee" phase.  We were going to spend a pre-cruise week around Rome/Florence/Sorrento, and then there were to be port visits to Cannes, 3 ports in Spain, and a stop in Madeira.  "Holidays" (vacations) are supposed to be fun and stress-free.  This cruise didn't portend to be that!  For us, a cruise is not a "must-do" event. 

 

There were just too many uncertainties (and related expenses) surrounding this trip.  So we'll just "hang around" home and start thinking about mid/late 2021 for a far-off trip somewhere.  Best Regards.

Edited April 13, 2020 by pingpong1

[roger b]

56 minutes ago, pingpong1 said:

Hi Roger - Thanks for the link.  Very Informative.  Sometimes it's difficult for us in the U.S. to get actual "facts on the ground" or know what's actually happening in various European/UK countries and areas, travel-wise.  For the most part, it doesn't affect most Americans over here too much, so our newspapers usually "stuff" their pages with US-focused news that's going on, instead.

 

Subsequent to our conversation (and your thoughts the other day about Riviera's summer re-positioning plans),  we cancelled our "Riviera" TA in October from Rome to Miami before we entered into any "cancellation penalty" or "admin-fee" phase.  We were going to spend a pre-cruise week around Rome/Florence/Sorrento, and then there were to be port visits to Cannes, 3 ports in Spain, and a stop in Madeira.  "Holidays" (vacations) are supposed to be fun and stress-free.  This cruise didn't portend to be that!  For us, a cruise is not a "must-do" event. 

 

There were just too many uncertainties (and related expenses) surrounding this trip.  So we'll just "hang around" home and start thinking about mid/late 2021 for a far-off trip somewhere.  Best Regards.

 

 All is not lost as 2021 looks like it is going well with increased bookings , lets hope this saves the cruise industry !! I have Booked for February 2021 Bangkok to Dubai Looking forward to it  !!! 

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/cruise-ship-bookings-are-increasing-for-2021-despite-coronavirus-2020-4?IR=T

Edited April 13, 2020 by roger b
Miss Spelling

[clo]

5 hours ago, roger b said:

I don't now see this happening as  French border could be closed until October 30th .

Not just France.

[roger b]

9 minutes ago, clo said:

Not just France.

 Here in Spain the government hope to start international flights on the 26th July , but with strict border controls There is talk of passengers being tested on the spot  to be allowed entry !! not sure about this but would help .

  Still the continuation of cruising in the Med is another thing  personally I can't see this starting before October.

[njhorseman]

47 minutes ago, roger b said:

 

 All is not lost as 2021 looks like it is going well with increased bookings , lets hope this saves the cruise industry !! I have Booked for February 2021 Bangkok to Dubai Looking forward to it  !!! 

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/cruise-ship-bookings-are-increasing-for-2021-despite-coronavirus-2020-4?IR=T

But there won't be much cash coming in from those "new" bookings because a lot of it is attributable to people accepting the cruise lines' FCC offer rather than asking for a refund, and then using the FCC to book a 2021 cruise. From the article you cited:" Indeed, UBS reported that 76% of the people who had a canceled cruise in 2020 have chosen to accept credit towards a future cruise in 2021 as opposed to 24% who accepted a refund. " 

 

To balance that picture the article also said "The Times also noted that a recent analysis from Swiss bank UBS found that in the past 30 days, the number of cruise bookings for 2021 are up by 9% compared to the same period in 2020, including a substantial number of people booking brand new cruises as opposed to simply re-booking canceled cruises. "...but it did not present any data to support the "substantial number" statement.

 

In the end I guess the good news for the cruise lines is that only 24% of passengers were asking for a refund, which will allow the cruise lines to conserve their cash. Whether that holds up in the long run remains to be seen. As cruise lines continue to extend the dates through which cruises are being canceled will a majority of passengers get increasingly anxious about the situation and start choosing refunds over FCCs?

Edited April 13, 2020 by njhorseman

[Paulchili]

6 hours ago, roger b said:

 Further to my post on Oceania bringing  Marina and Riviera across to Europe , I don't now see this happening as  French border could be closed until October 30th .

There are flights from LHR (non-Schengen) to Paris currently and into May when we are booked on BA.

How is that consistent with closure of French borders even at present, never mind into October?

[roger b]

1 hour ago, Paulchili said:

There are flights from LHR (non-Schengen) to Paris currently and into May when we are booked on BA.

How is that consistent with closure of French borders even at present, never mind into October?

 Paul, Do you mean you have a flight from London to Paris on B.A or from U.S as it might show at the moment My flights to London into May have been cancelled, I don't think the U.S press is telling how bad it is on this side of the pond . Spain will definitely  not open international flights until 19th June at the earliest , I have a list of proposals from the Spanish government to be voted on next week .

                This has come from a Government Official as  someone will ask how I know .

  

 

[Paulchili]

4 minutes ago, roger b said:

Paul, Do you mean you have a flight from London to Paris on B.A or from U.S as it might show at the moment My flights to London into May have been cancelled,

It is from LHR (after a cruise ending in Southampton) to Paris.

It still shows as operating on BA website. I wish to cancel it but waiting for BA to cancel it first.

I also have an IB flight from SFO to MAD In early May that still shows as operating.

Edited April 13, 2020 by Paulchili

[WaterView2]

I suspect we will see various types of travel restrictions continue this summer. There may be differences in how land, sea, air arrivals are handled as current policies indicate. Even within the USA there are differences, for example you can't disembark from a cruise ship in Hawaii unless you are a Hawaii resident or have special permission but you can fly to Hawaii if you are willing to self quarantine for 14 days; and the land borders with Canada and Mexico to/ from the USA are closed to general non-commercial travel.

[robbie21]

11 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

It is from LHR (after a cruise ending in Southampton) to Paris.

It still shows as operating on BA website. I wish to cancel it but waiting for BA to cancel it first.

I also have an IB flight from SFO to MAD In early May that still shows as operating.

 

Basically the airlines are playing chicken with us. They would prefer that we get nervous and cancel so they keep their flights on the board even though they know that they will not fly them. If we cancel we get the credit voucher.  If we wait them out, as Paul says, until they finally cancel the flight we can get a cash refund.

[roger b]

5 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

It is from LHR (after a cruise ending in Southampton) to Paris.

It still shows as operating on BA website. I wish to cancel it but waiting for BA to cancel it first.

I also have an IB flight from SFO to MAD In early May that still shows as operating.

 Paul , I had notice of my flight cancellation  from London to Barcelona on the 13th May over 2 weeks ago , Yes both your flights are not cancelled, But You are restricted  to enter Spain . I would get on to Iberia 

 https://www.iberia.com/es/latest-update-of-our-flights/?T65b_deploy=true#restrictions

[Paulchili]

2 hours ago, roger b said:

 Paul , I had notice of my flight cancellation  from London to Barcelona on the 13th May over 2 weeks ago , Yes both your flights are not cancelled, But You are restricted  to enter Spain . I would get on to Iberia 

 https://www.iberia.com/es/latest-update-of-our-flights/?T65b_deploy=true#restrictions

Thanks Roger.

Interestingly enough, the list of countries that are restricted from entering Spain in your link sounds like the entire UN but does NOT include US (unless I am missing something).

Thus I cannot claim refund of miles on that basis.

Edited April 13, 2020 by Paulchili

[roger b]

20 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

Thanks Roger.

Interestingly enough, the list of countries that are restricted from entering Spain in your link sounds like the entire UN but does NOT include US (unless I am missing something).

Thus I cannot claim refund of miles on that basis.

 Paul ,

   I  Am sure you will not be able to fly , Even if you did get here What Next ??Personally I would try to contact Iberia and B.A you can still cancel and get a voucher for one year, wait a little longer and see what comes by the end of the month

 

Edited April 13, 2020 by roger b
Miss Spelling

[roger b]

28 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

Thanks Roger.

Interestingly enough, the list of countries that are restricted from entering Spain in your link sounds like the entire UN but does NOT include US (unless I am missing something).

Thus I cannot claim refund of miles on that basis.

 I do see the U.S in the list of countries !!

 

ntry bans for citizens or visitors of Spain:
Albania, Angola, Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Argentina, Armenia, Australia, Austria, Bahamas, Bangladesh, Bolivia, Bosnia Herzegovina, Botswana, Bulgaria, Cambodia, Cameroon, Canada, Chad, Chile, Cyprus, Colombia, Ivory Coast, Costa Rica, Cuba, Denmark, , Djibouti,Ecuador, Egypt, United Arab Emirates, EL Salvador, Slovakia, Slovenia, United States, Estonia, Ethiopia, Philippines, Finland, Georgia, Ghana, Granada, Guatemala, Guinea Bissau, Equatorial Guinea, Guyana, Haiti, Honduras, Hungary, India, Iraq, Ireland, Marshall Islands, Solomon Islands, Israel, Jamaica, Japan, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kyrgyzstan, Kuwait, Latvia, Lebanon, Liberia, Libya, Lithuania, North Macedonia, Madagascar, Malaysia, Maldives, Mall, Malta, Morocco, Mauritius, Moldova, Montenegro, Namibia, Nepal, Norway, New Zealand, Oman, Pakistan, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Poland, Portugal, Qatar, Czech Republic, Dominican Republic, Rwanda, Romania, Russia, Samoa , Saint Lucia, São Tomé and Príncipe, Senegal , Serbia, Seychelles, Singapore, Somalia, Sri Lanka, South Africa, Sudan, Switzerland, Suriname, Taiwan, East Timor, Togo, Tonga, Trinidad and Tobago, Tunisia, Turkey, Ukraine, Uruguay, Uzbekistan, Venezuela, Vietnam.

Edited April 13, 2020 by roger b
Miss Spelling

[LHT28]

more  news to chew on

https://ca.rogers.yahoo.com/news/south-korea-reports-more-recovered-082628635.html

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, Paulchili said:

Thanks Roger.

Interestingly enough, the list of countries that are restricted from entering Spain in your link sounds like the entire UN but does NOT include US (unless I am missing something).

Thus I cannot claim refund of miles on that basis.

 

43 minutes ago, roger b said:

 I do see the U.S in the list of countries !!

 

ntry bans for citizens or visitors of Spain:
Albania, Angola, Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Argentina, Armenia, Australia, Austria, Bahamas, Bangladesh, Bolivia, Bosnia Herzegovina, Botswana, Bulgaria, Cambodia, Cameroon, Canada, Chad, Chile, Cyprus, Colombia, Ivory Coast, Costa Rica, Cuba, Denmark, , Djibouti,Ecuador, Egypt, United Arab Emirates, EL Salvador, Slovakia, Slovenia, United States, Estonia, Ethiopia, Philippines, Finland, Georgia, Ghana, Granada, Guatemala, Guinea Bissau, Equatorial Guinea, Guyana, Haiti, Honduras, Hungary, India, Iraq, Ireland, Marshall Islands, Solomon Islands, Israel, Jamaica, Japan, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kyrgyzstan, Kuwait, Latvia, Lebanon, Liberia, Libya, Lithuania, North Macedonia, Madagascar, Malaysia, Maldives, Mall, Malta, Morocco, Mauritius, Moldova, Montenegro, Namibia, Nepal, Norway, New Zealand, Oman, Pakistan, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Poland, Portugal, Qatar, Czech Republic, Dominican Republic, Rwanda, Romania, Russia, Samoa , Saint Lucia, São Tomé and Príncipe, Senegal , Serbia, Seychelles, Singapore, Somalia, Sri Lanka, South Africa, Sudan, Switzerland, Suriname, Taiwan, East Timor, Togo, Tonga, Trinidad and Tobago, Tunisia, Turkey, Ukraine, Uruguay, Uzbekistan, Venezuela, Vietnam.

The original list must have been in alphabetical order in Spanish and then after translating to English they didn't bother to reorder it.

 

In Spanish United States is Estados Unidos...so it appears after Slovenia, which is Eslovenia in Spanish and before Estonia, which is Estonia in Spanish.

[Paulchili]

Thanks to both Roger & njhorseman - I did miss that and the order now makes more sense - from Spanish to English.

[Paulchili]

1 hour ago, roger b said:

 Paul ,

   I  Am sure you will not be able to fly , Even if you did get here What Next ??Personally I would try to contact Iberia and B.A you can still cancel and get a voucher for one year, wait a little longer and see what comes by the end of the month

 

Thanks Roger but both my flights are for miles (Avios) and I do NOT want vouchers - I would like to re-deposit the miles without a fee which they are not very happy to do.