People on Princess afraid of blackballing.....

[omeinv]

At the opposite end of the spectrum - the small retail business - they HATE chargebacks, because after a few of them, and the credit card company will increase their transaction fee.  Like insurance, those who generate losses pay more.  This is actually great for the consumer, because it gives you that much more leverage when something is not right.  Naturally the number of chargebacks would have a similar, proportionate result in a large company.  However, in an instance like this, the disputes people file will be resolved with the eventual issuance of the refund.   Thus the credit card issuer won't be out anything, so while there will be a dispute, they won't proceed to chargebacks. 

 

There's little doubt in my mind the card companies will not consider raising the transaction fees paid by cruise lines and airlines; due to disputes in this period.  This is because the major corporations (cruise lines, airlines, etc.) and the credit card companies have a mutual interest in continuing to work together.  For the same reason, I can't imagine any of those corporations attempting to dissuade or prohibit customers from future business because of initiating a credit card dispute over a rightfully due refund.  Again, they want the customers to return, and the customers still want to return. 

 

The one business I could see getting hurt would be a travel agency, if they are one of the minority that prcesses the charge through the agency, rather than directly with the cruise line.  Then when the customer initiates the dispute, the card company would look to the travel agency, even though the cruise line is where the delay is.  I wouldn't let this delay my opening a dispute, since the agencies that use that method presumably were gaining some advantage to do so, and now they can figure out the down-side.  That's the very definition of "acting as agent".

 

All of this being said, I've yet to use the credit card dispute for my refund from Celebrity; not because I'm afraid of offending them, but because I truly understand that processing the number of refunds and credits involved is a far larger task than most seem to realize, and it's going to take time. 

 

Harris

Denver, CO

[LMaxwell]

4 hours ago, mafig said:

 

There are people on the Princess board who are afraid to file a dispute with their credit card to get THEIR money back on cancelled cruises because they think that Princess will either blackball them from future cruises or revoke their Captain's Club status.!!!

 

A whiff of paranoia for them with that thought process. Nothing wrong with trying to be a responsible steward of your personal finances. 

 

If they are serially abusing protections for credit card holders, or regularly complaining to a company for benefits, yes, in that case they could be blacklisted. But for most looking for their refunds that is not the case and so I would not have this concern.

[NantahalaCruiser]

2 hours ago, markeb said:

I have this vision of a poor man's version of SABRE requiring every transaction to be hand entered into a DOS screen...

 

The travel industry in general's failure over the years to invest in real IT is fascinating. I can buy a plane ticket with my mouse, or in an app, but the airline itself for the most part still uses SABRE or its successor. It would not surprise me in the least if the actual cruise line is having to hand enter every transaction, possibly including the credit card information again,rather than click an "are you sure" button before crediting the account..

Don't doubt it.  I cancelled a July Alaskan cruise a couple of weeks ago prior to final and they only owe us $500 FCC for our NRD - so not real concerned about the timing.

 

But I had over $2K in self-booked NR airfare with Alaskan Airlines for which I was very concerned.  Luckily when I checked a couple of days ago, they had changed our flight times by a couple of hours which qualified us for a cancellation with full reimbursement.  However, their standard IT system was unable to send me a cancellation confirmation - instead I received another confirmation of all of my flights along with a "looking forward to you flying with us" message!  Had to call several times to find someone who promised to email me a real confirmation of the cancellation.  Hoping to see it in a couple of days.  And who knows when we'll get the $2k credit back to my CC.

 

Best wishes to all on not too untimely receipts.

Edited April 15, 2020 by NantahalaCruiser

[Germancruiser]

And if Princess does not " behave" just move on - there are other cruise lines out there, very very thankfull for taking your business! Esp. after all this is over!

[Shadow9612]

8 hours ago, Gracie115 said:

No, I haven't gone the credit card charge back route yet, but certainly might.  Princess owes us over 13K, they have a few more weeks to issue the refund and if not then will call our cc company.  

 

I could care less if I were "blackballed" by them, though to think they would do that is absurd.  Right now our 13K is more important than any status on any line.

 Can I ask, how long have you been waiting for the refund? Also when did you make the original payment? Is there a time line within which we have time to dispute with the credit card company?

 

 the reason I'm asking, is I have a canceled princess cruise, that I had only made a deposit on, and I'm curious How long I should wait for the refund

[Shadow9612]

4 hours ago, omeinv said:

All of this being said, I've yet to use the credit card dispute for my refund from Celebrity; not because I'm afraid of offending them, but because I truly understand that processing the number of refunds and credits involved is a far larger task than most seem to realize, and it's going to take time. 

Could someone explain why the refund process takes so long, when the charging for a deposit or accepting final payment, from thousands of passengers, is seamless and instantaneous?

 

 When I cancelked a cruise, it was almost instantaneously removed from my online planner. So why can't the refund be initiated as quickly?

[omeinv]

1 minute ago, Shadow9612 said:

Could someone explain why the refund process takes so long, when the charging for a deposit or accepting final payment, from thousands of passengers, is seamless and instantaneous?

 

 When I cancelked a cruise, it was almost instantaneously removed from my online planner. So why can't the refund be initiated as quickly?

The refunds are a manual process.  Each reservation has to be reviewed manually, basically audited, so the correct amounts are refunded.  While your reservation is straightforward to you, there are a number of permutations, since a booking consists of a number of amounts (initial deposit, final payment, potentially changes such as upgrades resulting in additional  payments, and then taxes and fees), add to that people can pay for the different amounts using different cards over time; or use a future cruse certificate to make a payment. 

 

Add to this the fact that Celebrity is suddenly in a position where 100% of reservations are now being refunded, and of those about 75% are getting partial cash refunds with the rest in future cruise credit, while the remainder are getting cash refunds. 

 

Harris

Denver, CO

[bEwAbG]

A standard refund involves the merchant processing a transaction and then the credit card bank processing the same transaction on their end.  In normal times, that takes up to a week to happen.  On the front end, there's a bit of illusion involved.  You're really seeing a pre-authorization for the charge & the merchant's records show it immediately, but it still takes a few days for the actual bank transaction to happen and for them to get the money for it from the credit card bank. 

 

Refunds typically have some controls around them, too.  You wouldn't want a phone operator to authorize a refund with no one checking the validity of the refund itself as well as the amount.  So, there are a minimum of two people involved in the transaction on the merchant's end.  With a company that's bleeding cash, you can bet that there are more people involved in timing when these transactions actually get pushed through.  And in a company that is bringing in little income, it's not like they can afford to hire a bunch more people to process this stuff any faster.

 

There is also a giant volume of refund transactions happening right now across all sectors.  Someone did the math above to give an estimated number in the hundreds of thousands.  That's just for Celebrity.  Now add in all the cruise lines.  And then the airlines. And then so on and so on.  At this point, a "dispute" is really just spitting in the wind as the credit card banks are also overwhelmed (see how long it takes if you try to call them).  I understand the frustration from the customer side, but it really isn't as simple as clicking an "are you sure?" button and having it all happen by magic.  There is a great deal of automation today versus even just a few years ago, but this is an enormous undertaking that really has no precedent.

[Gracie115]

5 hours ago, Shadow9612 said:

 Can I ask, how long have you been waiting for the refund? Also when did you make the original payment? Is there a time line within which we have time to dispute with the credit card company?

 

 the reason I'm asking, is I have a canceled princess cruise, that I had only made a deposit on, and I'm curious How long I should wait for the refund

 

We cancelled on March 9, original deposit was over a year ago, full payment in late January 2020.  Can't answer about the credit card because different cards have different terms.

[4774Papa]

I have mixed feelings about this issue of contesting the charge on your credit card because the cruise line doesn't refund your charge in a timely manner.

 

1) Yes, the cruise lines should issue your refund ASAP, however, with huge numbers of refunds, give them more time than in a normal situation.  90 days is too long, but is 45 or 60?  What is a reasonable time?   I am not earning much on my money right now with almost zero interest rates, so I am personally willing to wait 90 days.  I helped my Mom contesting a charge several years ago (not a cruise) and resolution took six months.  Eventually, she had to pay, but I negotiated a partial reduction of the charge.

2) Contesting a charge when the cruise line has agreed to refund your charge rubs me the wrong way.  A cruise line like Celebrity is a reputable company, not selling shares in a Nigerian inheritance.  

 

If people are that angry about a month or two delay in receiving a refund, not sure they would care if a cruise line blacklisted them for contesting a charge.

[hcat]

Some people save up over time to pay for the deposits and then  for the final  cruise payment.   The deposit money receives no interest to the cruisers acct and worse, it seems the deposits are used for operating expenses.

 

Some  folks have not worked or been paid wages  since the virus thing started..bills still arrive.    Prompt refunds of one's own money could go a long way!

[mafig]

Some credit card have time periods in which to file a dispute.  I've read 100 days, but also as low as 60 days on some.

If you wait you give away your right to ever file a dispute.  You then just have to depend on the merchant to do the right thing.

 

 

[paulh84]

28 minutes ago, mafig said:

Some credit card have time periods in which to file a dispute.  I've read 100 days, but also as low as 60 days on some.

If you wait you give away your right to ever file a dispute.  You then just have to depend on the merchant to do the right thing.

 

 

 

It's not up to the credit card. The standard is determined by the FCBA. The card issuer can make their own terms more favorable, but not less favorable to the consumer. They have 30 days to respond to your dispute and 2 billing cycles to complete the investigation. 90 days max. There are several guidelines and stipulations to the process. The credit card company can also resolve your dispute by saying the cruise line is in process of refunding you. It's definitely not as simple as saying the refund is taking too long for my liking, making a call, and having the charge reversed. 

[mafig]

2 minutes ago, paulh84 said:

 

I It's definitely not as simple as saying the refund is taking too long for my liking, making a call, and having the charge reversed. 

 

Actually in my case I believe it was.

I disputed the charge (mainly because I read a post here that I had only 100 days to dispute and I was at the 94 day mark).

The next day my credit card showed the refund with the word RESOLVED.

 

 

[sanger727]

There's a big difference between the disputes that typically happen during normal times - say take the cruise and are unhappy so dispute the charge or you cancel at the last minute, didn't have insurance, didn't get a refund and dispute the charge... and what's happening now. Yes, in those situations when the charge was legitimate I think that you could definately get blackballed.

 

Right now the issue is that they are cancelling, offering refunds, and people are unhappy with the refund time. Do i think a dispute is the right answer - no. If you were promised a refund in 30 days than absolutely, at day 31 I would dispute it. But if you were promised a refund in 60-90 days and are simply unhappy with that - disputing the charge only makes more work for the vendor and the credit card companies. And very possibly once the vendor is aware that you disputed the charge, they will most likely cancel the refund process so you don't get a refund and charge back. Then if you lose the dispute you have to start the process over again. But no, I don't think there's any chance you would get blackballed for it by the cruise line. Now your credit card company might send you a nasty message for wasting their time disputing a charge when you knew a refund was in process.

[hcat]

We have other cards  but so far our  BOA  cruise pts card has been excellent.

 

We are  no longer interested in accruing cruise points so will use our other BOA card or something else  with diff rewards .Cash back  for dollars spent sounds good!

 

. If X doesn't want us anymore,  they can refund our current deposit and  pay cash for our FCC.  ( both of these will be  lost if they file for bankruptcy.)

 

We did well with our 2 disputes and will wait the 30 days for our last one to come through.

[Pushka]

I think people could be happy to wait say, 45 days as long as they knew that at that time, the money would be there. It is the "unknown" that is doing people's heads in I think. 

[mafig]

32 minutes ago, Pushka said:

I think people could be happy to wait say, 45 days as long as they knew that at that time, the money would be there. It is the "unknown" that is doing people's heads in I think. 

 

At the very beginning, that very first email stated that a confirmation would be sent.  It wasn't.

For Celebrity I have a 50/50 chance of getting my luggage tags when I hit the "send" button.  How can I be sure of a refund ?  

[deliver42]

Even with n refund available yet, i don't think you can win a dispute because it wasn't a disputed charge in the first place. I may be wrong, but I don't think any bank guarantees a refund from a third party.

[mafig]

1 hour ago, deliver42 said:

Even with n refund available yet, i don't think you can win a dispute because it wasn't a disputed charge in the first place. I may be wrong, but I don't think any bank guarantees a refund from a third party.

 

There have been refunds given after disputes with the credit card companies.  A couple on Celebrity.  One person has received a check.  I had a credit on my statement the very next day with the notation RESOLVED.

 

At least one person on Norwegian's board has received a refund, only after a dispute with their credit card.

 

 

[Pushka]

9 hours ago, mafig said:

 

At the very beginning, that very first email stated that a confirmation would be sent.  It wasn't.

For Celebrity I have a 50/50 chance of getting my luggage tags when I hit the "send" button.  How can I be sure of a refund ?  

Absolutely agree. And that is the stress for everyone. If it's any consolation Qantas is doing exactly the same flakey stuff in Australia. Refunds normally in 2 weeks now well over four. And in the middle they send out emails asking if we want a refund or voucher like they've not acted on the very first instruction. Infuriating. Stressful. 

[varoo]

On 4/14/2020 at 2:19 PM, wwcruisers said:

I would think that it would be more of a problem to use THAT particular card again, for future cruises. That's one reason why we have always considered going to the CC companies to settle a dispute with the cruise line to be the 'nuclear option'.

 

We did not find that to be the case at all. 

We disputed a charge of over $5,000 with a major cruise line years ago and our credit card company got it all back for us.  We are still using that credit card to this day and have paid for many more cruises with it since then.

 

[mafig]

I think all the cruise lines will have many, many people who will be disputing via their credit card.

 

They're not going to have many prospective cruisers left if they blackball them all.  Not to mention, of course, the over 70s who are in a sense also blackballed.

 

 

[Jim_Iain]

I doubt it so much that I already have filed 4 disputes because it is taking them so long to refund me and I'm not about to cough up another $8,000 in pending charges.    Chase issued temporary credits and indicated I don't need to make payment until the dispute is investigated. 

 

In my case the charges were for upgrades I "Won" the day before they cancelled their cruises.  

[NMTraveller]

I don't understand having a human in the loop for cancelled shore excursion credits.  When you book a shore excursion online it charges your card right away.  Why can't/aren't the cancelled shore excursions automatically credited?