Anybody worried about cruise lines further nickel and diming in response to coronavirus?

[GlamorousGirl]

In my experience, they charge you a “fine” if you cancel a person in the cabin and go alone after final payment, but won’t if you find someone else to take their place. Even though they know they’re going to have to feed that person and provide service to them, which costs the cruise line money. It’s very counterintuitive- but it’s because they expect that person to spend more on the ship than the cost of feeding and servicing them.

 

I agree with those who have said quality has gone down in the MDR. I’ve been noticing that for quite a while now.

[Joebucks]

On 4/24/2020 at 9:41 PM, chipmaster said:

 

That all being said the atmosphere of sit down dinner is still enjoyable, but my kids as the grew up and enjoy and appreciate real good food have found the sit down just tolerable and specialty ( you paid what for that! ), the only reason we cruise is for the different ports, no worries B-C food/entertainment, new port / in port food/sights and then on to the next one.  Cruising still a unique value, but anyone who thinks lying by a overcrowded pool playing loud music with a bunch of crazy buffet loving folks is "the" vacation or a "value" that can't be beat needs to get out more.

 

That is your opinion. Just as mine is if anyone thinks paying 2-3x more for a vacation to eat fancy meals every night is "the" vacation or a "value" that can't be beat, needs to get out more.

 

 

This topic is just more of the same, rehashed for COVID-19. Constant "worrying" and "cutbacks". The fear is that cruise lines are hurting for money, and will now charge for everything to make that up. That type of thinking is baseless and makes no sense whatsoever. We are in a recession, economic downturn, whatever you want to call it if you want to get technical. In these times, businesses don't survive by making their product less attractive, no matter how much fear you read from an internet person. If anything, you may see some more attractive offers sent your way, especially if demand goes down.

 

They will always continue to modify the product based off of trends, what is desired, what can be added, etc. The whole cutback thing is the most annoying topic on this forum. When people imply cutbacks, it generally means they want the cruise experience of decades ago, on a mass-market ship. Or better yet, a luxury cruise of today, with the mass-market pricing.

[sverigecruiser]

On 4/24/2020 at 4:07 PM, iancal said:

Those who expect mass market prices and high end food, service, etc. are fooling themselves.

 

When NCL wants almost $10000 for a week in the Haven on the Epic I think that high end food and service shall be expected. 

[Aquahound]

11 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

Nope.  Have looked into it (Oceania) seriously but as yet do not think it is a good match for us. 

 

Cruise ships can't possible keep fresh lobster for banquet counts of diners.  If you have ever had fresh Maine lobster, you would understand my comment.     

 

Agreed.  I've looked at Oceania a couple times and I just couldn't justify paying tremendously more for a cruise that was no more appealing to me than some of the nicer mass market ships.  

 

And about that lobster....some folks say a cruise ship could never cook a steak as well as they do at home.  That's how I feel about lobster.  I'm from the Florida Keys where I had endless lobster living in my seawall.  No cruise ship could ever season it and grill it the way I can, so I never order it, whether on a cruise or in a restaurant.  

[navybankerteacher]

19 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

 

Agreed.  I've looked at Oceania a couple times and I just couldn't justify paying tremendously more for a cruise that was no more appealing to me than some of the nicer mass market ships.  

 

And about that lobster....some folks say a cruise ship could never cook a steak as well as they do at home.  That's how I feel about lobster.  I'm from the Florida Keys where I had endless lobster living in my seawall.  No cruise ship could ever season it and grill it the way I can, so I never order it, whether on a cruise or in a restaurant.  

Right - local lobster (in my case Atlantic, or Maine, if you insist) and steak (among other dishes) can almost always be better prepared by doing it yourself with locally acquired raw materials.

 

But, I would say that Oceania’s smaller size ships have a certain appeal missing in the mass market mega ships.

[cruisemom42]

2 hours ago, Joebucks said:

This topic is just more of the same, rehashed for COVID-19. Constant "worrying" and "cutbacks". The fear is that cruise lines are hurting for money, and will now charge for everything to make that up. That type of thinking is baseless and makes no sense whatsoever. We are in a recession, economic downturn, whatever you want to call it if you want to get technical. In these times, businesses don't survive by making their product less attractive, no matter how much fear you read from an internet person. If anything, you may see some more attractive offers sent your way, especially if demand goes down.

 

 

I have to disagree. Or perhaps I should say that IMO you are conflating two things. Of course cruise lines don't want to make their product less attractive. But that is not mutually exclusive with also introducing cutbacks. Cruise lines have in the past chosen to go the route of keeping base fares extraordinarily low but simultaneously cutting back on service and quality in ways that are not as noticeable to all: fewer staff and crew (waiters with more tables, stewards with more cabins to clean), fewer live musicians onboard, fewer special touches like fresh flowers on tables and around the ship, etc.

 

I have cruised through several economic downturns -- either generalized or more specifically impacting travel industries -- and it has been clearly admitted by cruise lines that things like food quality suffered. In the interest of keeping base fares low, they have substituted less expensive types and cuts of meat and other proteins, use less of "premium" ingredients, and are much more clever in re-purposing food (e.g., yesterday's beef appears the next day in the beef broth of the soup you're eating...). 

 

At the same time they become more clever by introducing extra cost items to make you feel you are still getting that 'special' experience onboard -- Specialty dining, drink packages, etc.

 

 

[ldubs]

50 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Right - local lobster (in my case Atlantic, or Maine, if you insist) and steak (among other dishes) can almost always be better prepared by doing it yourself with locally acquired raw materials.

 

But, I would say that Oceania’s smaller size ships have a certain appeal missing in the mass market mega ships.

 

I agree that prep is key,  but so it quality of ingredients.  

 

About Oceania -- Yes, based on individual preferences there should be no argument.  Same can be said about the mega ships.  For me personally, the appeal is with what I guess these days might be called a mid-sized ship.  We decided to not give Oceania a try based on information here on CC.  And, by the way, we placed zero emphasis on those who are obsessed with only associating with high status wealthy people.  We know that thinking is an unfair representation of most Oceania passengers. 

 

[iancal]

It is straight forward for us.  If we find that a particular cruise line has substantially increased the nickel and diming we will vote with our feet.  Either another cruise line or another travel product altogether.

[ldubs]

3 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

When NCL wants almost $10000 for a week in the Haven on the Epic I think that high end food and service shall be expected. 

 

Yikes!  Pay that much and heck yeah I would expect that too! 

[chipmaster]

3 hours ago, Joebucks said:

 

That is your opinion. Just as mine is if anyone thinks paying 2-3x more for a vacation to eat fancy meals every night is "the" vacation or a "value" that can't be beat, needs to get out more.

 

 

This topic is just more of the same, rehashed for COVID-19. Constant "worrying" and "cutbacks". The fear is that cruise lines are hurting for money, and will now charge for everything to make that up. That type of thinking is baseless and makes no sense whatsoever. We are in a recession, economic downturn, whatever you want to call it if you want to get technical. In these times, businesses don't survive by making their product less attractive, no matter how much fear you read from an internet person. If anything, you may see some more attractive offers sent your way, especially if demand goes down.

 

They will always continue to modify the product based off of trends, what is desired, what can be added, etc. The whole cutback thing is the most annoying topic on this forum. When people imply cutbacks, it generally means they want the cruise experience of decades ago, on a mass-market ship. Or better yet, a luxury cruise of today, with the mass-market pricing.

 

There is no mass market and high end that is an oxymoron.   Show me a experience that is high end and mass market, by definition high end is exclusive and to make it they price it and offer things that only extra $$$$ buys, that is the very nature of it.  Nobody can have their cake and eat it too, LOL

 

Carnival, HAL, Princess will NEVER be high end or like what it was 25 years ago, dream on 😄

[bonsai3s]

On the positive side...

Cruising may get even better.

Cleaner ships.  Less crowded.

 

Looking forward to cruise lines having even better service and food.

 

We see it around town {during our weekly trips).  The small restaurants genuinely appreciate that we support their business.  We noticed that our "take-out" meals have bigger portions, taste even better, and most have been handing out coupons/discounts or BOGO.

 

 

[George C]

3 hours ago, chipmaster said:

 

There is no mass market and high end that is an oxymoron.   Show me a experience that is high end and mass market, by definition high end is exclusive and to make it they price it and offer things that only extra $$$$ buys, that is the very nature of it.  Nobody can have their cake and eat it too, LOL

 

Carnival, HAL, Princess will NEVER be high end or like what it was 25 years ago, dream on 😄

I disagree slightly, Celebrity suites on there new ships have a ship within a ship concept, they have there own restaurant which is excellent, hot tubs and pool. We loved msc yacht club which is a bargain, there suite lounge is huge with good entertainment,  good restaurants one inside and a grill by pool none of which are crowded at all and of course you can go to the other areas if the ship , both have butlers .

[Joebucks]

21 hours ago, chipmaster said:

 

There is no mass market and high end that is an oxymoron.   Show me a experience that is high end and mass market, by definition high end is exclusive and to make it they price it and offer things that only extra $$$$ buys, that is the very nature of it.  Nobody can have their cake and eat it too, LOL

 

Carnival, HAL, Princess will NEVER be high end or like what it was 25 years ago, dream on 😄

 

I'm not sure what you are getting at. Are you saying something can't be both high-end AND mass-market? Because that is not what I was saying. I was saying many people want the lower price of mass-market while getting luxury service. So in that, sense, we would be in agreement. Even then, some products provide an experience at a price that is quite sufficient for many many cruisers. The elites are going to continue to talk in absolutes though.

 

Really, almost any type of cruising experience you are looking for, is out there. You just need to be willing to pay for it. That is my overall point.

[navybankerteacher]

Back on topic:  nickel and diming has been a fundamental part of mass market lines’ business plans for several years. With or without COVID 19 it is most likely to continue as the two-tined fork of bottom-line improvement is  consistently applied:

 

A) Reduce costs - obviously by reducing staff and cost of purchases (food quality)

 

B) Grow revenue - (aside from increasing fares) by offering levels of improved service — which is an easy sell:

i) as passengers turn away from lower quality included meals and turn to extra fee alternative restaurants;

ii) have concierges and butlers come with pricier accommodations for which passengers pay extra to get the sort of service which used to be included; and

iii) come up with gimmicks like “protecting the environment” as justifying not permitting passengers to bring on soft drinks and bottled water creating additional selling opportunities.

 

 

[Hlitner]

Going back to the OP's topic, we are not at all concerned about new nickel and diming, cut-backs, new hassles, etc.  We will simply curtail or eliminate cruising and spend more time doing independent land trips.  We find it quite easy to simply fly to Europe, rent/lease a car, and just spend a few weeks having fun.  On some trips we might use the trains instead of a car.  And it is the same with Asia and remainder of the world.   Some of the cruise lines, such as Celebrity, were already driving us away (pre COVID-19) with all their cut-backs and price increases.  While we do hope to do more cruising (we still have 3 booked cruises in the next year) it would be easy for us to move to other travel options and leave cruising behind!  We have spent over 3 years on cruise ships and would happily spend another 3 years on ships...assuming the industry offers us an attractive product at a fair price.  But to some degree, I now see the cruise lines blaming everyone but themselves for imprisoning thousands of passengers and 10s of thousands of crew members on ships.    And the current situation where cruise lines continue to wait until the last minute to cancel cruises they cannot possibly complete is not in the passengers best interests.

 

I give you folks a link to an eye opening story recently published in the Miami Herald:

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article241640166.html

 

Hank

[ldubs]

On 4/26/2020 at 9:07 AM, chipmaster said:

 

There is no mass market and high end that is an oxymoron.   Show me a experience that is high end and mass market, by definition high end is exclusive and to make it they price it and offer things that only extra $$$$ buys, that is the very nature of it.  Nobody can have their cake and eat it too, LOL

 

Carnival, HAL, Princess will NEVER be high end or like what it was 25 years ago, dream on 😄

 

Actually, by definition high end means more expensive which may or may not mean better.   A Gucci purse is high end but is probably no better than a Coach purse except for the logo.   For cruise lines, high end, per definition, could mean paying more to have the same things bundled.  I think higher quality food may be part of what is paid for on more expensive lines, but other amenities often touted as superior may be nothing more than personal preferences.    

[iancal]

I have no doubt a number of the issues reported in that article will be the reason behind some of the upcoming litigation.

 

It is unclear to me why people have such faith in the industry and in the various players to 'do the right thing for their customers'.

 

I put it down to the fact that this is a feel good industry.  Cruisers like to cruise and they transfer the hard work and professionalism of the on board ship staff to the cruise corporations themselves.   We do not.  I suspect if this was GM,, or AA,  or Marriott, or Boeing, or one of the large pharma companies their opinions toward those conglomerates might be different.

 

Bottom line for us is that we are under no illusion that the cruise lines have far more interest in our wallet than they do in our health or safety.   A resumption of cruising will not in any way persuade us that our personal risk is diminished in any way.  No doubt the FCC's is a way of creating a herd mentality that all is well.   We are from Missouri on that one.

Edited April 27, 2020 by iancal

[Hlitner]

On 4/26/2020 at 12:07 PM, chipmaster said:

 

There is no mass market and high end that is an oxymoron.   Show me a experience that is high end and mass market, by definition high end is exclusive and to make it they price it and offer things that only extra $$$$ buys, that is the very nature of it.  Nobody can have their cake and eat it too, LOL

 

Carnival, HAL, Princess will NEVER be high end or like what it was 25 years ago, dream on 😄

Nothing is the way it was 25 or 30 years ago :).  But some of the so-called mass market lines have implemented a "ship within a ship" concept that makes labels difficult.  Just last year we cruised on MSC in the Yacht Club and also on Seabourn.  Most would consider Seabourn a "high end" or luxury cruise line and we would agree.  But MSCs Yacht Club is also quite "high end" and in some ways very competitive with lines like Seabourn.  Some would put NCL's Haven Suites and Cunard's "grill suites" in a similar category.    We actually thought that cruising in MSC's Yacht Club was like having our cake and eating it too :).  We got a luxury cruise experience for substantially less money then lines like Seabourn and Silverseas, but also got the benefit of being on a large mass market ship with lots of entertainment and amenities not found on the small luxury vessels.  

 

Hank

[ducklite]

The line I favor has no up-charge for alternate restaurants.  Bottled water is complimentary.  In fact all non-alcoholic beverages including specialty coffees, soft drinks, and virgin cocktails are complimentary.   I believe they would slightly raise prices before cutting food quality.

My advice for anyone who isn't happy with the quality they are getting for their dollars is to find a different cruise line.  If there isn't one in your price point that represents the quality that you prefer, consider land-based holidays, which we've found to be overall about half the cost of cruising.