SS/RCCL Finances: Improving, Options, Questions??!!

[cruiseej]

Just to correct something: the Abbott lab test is not an antibody test. Antibody tests (also called serology tests) look for the presence of antibodies a person's immune system has produced to defend against specific pathogens such as bacteria and viruses. These are blood tests. Because antibodies take time to develop in the bloodstream, such tests are not useful for detecting if someone has recently become infected with a disease.

 

The Abbott test is an antigen test, which is a diagnostic tool to see if a person currently has the virus. It uses a nasal or throat swab to get a fluid sample to detect certain proteins that are part of the virus. Antigen tests, which have long existed for other respiratory diseases like the flu, don't need complicated chemicals, specialized labs, highly-trained technicians, or expensive machines -- and they can provide an answer in minutes, rather than hours or days.

 

The testing typically done for COVID-19 so far has been molecular diagnostic, or PCR, tests which look into the virus's genetic material. Antigen tests look for a viral protein, which is a piece of a virus. Antigen tests are not as reliable as PCR tests -- they are more likely to miss detecting an active infection -- but because they are cheap, fast, and easily administered, that may end up being an acceptable trade-off. For instance, people can be tested multiple times with an antigen test every day or two, whereas daily PCR testing is generally too expensive and too slow (unless you live in the White House or a sports team "bubble"). 

 

I hope that helps clarify some of the medical terminology which we're all coming to learn about (I'm not a doctor or scientist) as we hope against hope for a way out of our current situation!

[TLCOhio]

1 hour ago, cruiseej said:

Just to correct something: the Abbott lab test is not an antibody test. Antibody tests (also called serology tests) look for the presence of antibodies a person's immune system has produced to defend against specific pathogens such as bacteria and viruses. These are blood tests. Because antibodies take time to develop in the bloodstream, such tests are not useful for detecting if someone has recently become infected with a disease.   The Abbott test is an antigen test, which is a diagnostic tool to see if a person currently has the virus.

 

Great above comments, clarification and follow-up.  I was sharing a news posting from a financial reporting source and their medical expertise was clearly a little limited.   Wonderful added info and sharing!!   Don't be shy with added posts, comments, questions, etc.  

 

From the Washington Post two days ago, they had this headline: “Bali won’t allow tourists until 2021. These 4 destinations will probably follow.” with these story highlights: “Even as many nations begin to lift their coronavirus travel restrictions, vacationers considering a gamble on late-2020 trips abroad might want to reconsider — or at least make sure to book a very flexible ticket. Some destinations have recently made moves to extend their tourism shutdowns.  Bali’s shift away from reopening this year, in favor of only domestic tourism, was announced this week. Other international destinations have signaled similar plans. Why? Hospitality experts say extended border closures might be a smart move for the survival of certain tourist-frequented destinations. Australia, South Africa, Thailand and New Zealand have hinted at barring international travelers until next year, but no official plans have been announced.”

 

Here is more from their story:  "Larger nations are also hinting that they are unlikely to reopen in 2020, with Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce recently telling investors that he predicts Australians will not be able to fly internationally until 2021, according to the New Zealand Herald. Australia and New Zealand officials have spoken about allowing a potential travel bubble between the two nations if covid-19 levels remain controlled, but New Zealand is still imposing a complete ban on almost all visitors."

 

Full story at:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2020/08/28/bali-wont-allow-tourists-until-2021-these-4-destinations-will-probably-follow/

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Barcelona/Med: June 2011, with stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Great visuals with key highlights, tips, etc. Live/blog now at 252,032 views.

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

 

[TLCOhio]

The finances for the major cruise lines can be complicated and BIG!!  Like in billions of dollars??!!  We normally think of their needs just for funding ships, staff, fuel, food, etc.  BUT, this below articles gives a sampling for how government units can be involved (or on the hook) in building and financing cruise terminals and headquarters buildings, etc.  

 

From the Miami Herald yesterday evening, they had this headline: “PortMiami looks to Wall Street for help to continue building cruise terminals” with these highlights: “Miami-Dade is looking to borrow from Wall Street to fund its cruise terminal projects, $335 million designated for PortMiami. The approval comes as cruising in the U.S. remains banned until at least Oct. 1.  Before the COVID-19 pandemic paralyzed the cruise industry, the county agreed to pay $700 million toward the cruise projects — five new terminals and two company headquarters. The cruise companies, Carnival, Royal Caribbean, Norwegian, MSC and Virgin Voyages agreed to repay the county $5.8 billion over the next 20 to 62 years.  Cruise companies and Miami-Dade County exchanged letters citing force majeure, or unforeseen circumstances, in order to get some relief from the payment deadlines after U.S. health authorities canceled cruises in mid-March. No agreement has been announced.  The original agreements backed by passenger fees — involving Norwegian Cruise Line, Carnival Corporation and Virgin Voyages terminals — required the companies to pay the shortfall between the passenger fees promised and the passenger fees realized by the end of September.”

 

As further market demand shrinks and/or conditions change, who will pick up these significant capital costs?  The cruise lines?  Or taxpayers?

 

See the full story at:

https://www.miamiherald.com/article245412690.html

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle cruise from Copenhagen, July 2010, to the top of Europe. Scenic visuals with key tips. Live/blog at 240,350 views.

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1227923

[Randyk47]

Thanks Terry!  In a positive way I feel like I’m back in college in economics.  As an aside I saw this article referenced on another section here and thought I would share.   If accurate NCL is moving to cut the bleeding.   http://www.crew-center.com/nclh-cruise-ships-go-cool-lay-manning

[TLCOhio]

On 9/2/2020 at 11:55 AM, Randyk47 said:

Thanks Terry!  In a positive way I feel like I’m back in college in economics.  As an aside I saw this article referenced on another section here and thought I would share.   If accurate NCL is moving to cut the bleeding.   http://www.crew-center.com/nclh-cruise-ships-go-cool-lay-manning

 

Appreciate Randy's follow-up and very good sharing of the article headlined:"NCLH Cruise Ships Go To Cool Lay-Up Manning".  Agree that there are many different aspects of college Econ 401 involved with these varied and many complex issues.  Hard to believe now that we would be learning more about the staffing and operational costs to have ships in "cold" vs. "warm" lay-up.   

 

From the Wall Street Journal's sister publication, Barron's, this afternoon, they had this headline: “Cruise Stocks Climb as Carnival Prepares to Resume Sailings From Italy” with these highlights: “Shares of Carnival, the world’s largest cruise operator, were making big gains Thursday ahead of its plans to resume cruises out of Italy this weekend.  Passenger cruises have been suspended since mid-March because of the pandemic.  Carnival’s Italy-based Costa Cruises is scheduled to have one of its vessels, Costa Deliziosa, depart on Sunday from Trieste, followed by other sailings this month out of that country.   Carnival plans to have its Germany-based AIDA Cruises resume sailings on Nov. 1.  Carnival said the two brands 'will begin in a gradual, phased-in manner with six initial ships and limited itineraries.'  Among the health and safety protocols cited on Costa’s Website are staggered passenger boarding times, the installation of new air filters, a requirement that masks be worn in public areas, and reduced occupancy. Other measures include limiting occupancy in common areas aboard the ships and enhanced cleaning and disinfecting.”

 

Overall, today was a big, BIG negative day for Wall Street. The overall S&P 500 was DOWN 3.7%!!!   Major drop!  Significant "adjustment" times??  However, the three major cruise lines were up significantly.  Carnival was up 5.2%, NCL up 3.8% and RCCL up 2.7%.  Hard to figure out and explain?  My guess continues to be that there is optimism and "hope" that a vaccine is getting closer and that this is driving the upward movement for the three major cruise line stock values.

 

Any other better guesses and speculation?

 

Full story at:

https://www.barrons.com/articles/cruise-stocks-climb-carnival-prepares-to-resume-sailings-from-italy-covid-pandemic-51599150944?adobe_mc=MCMID%3D73335146332247363921857383295756680298|MCORGID%3DCB68E4BA55144CAA0A4C98A5%40AdobeOrg|TS%3D1599151792

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Sydney to NZ/Auckland Adventure, live/blog 2014 sampling/details with many exciting visuals and key highlights.  On page 23, post #571, see a complete index for all of the pictures, postings.  Now at 230,883 views.

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1974139

[TLCOhio]

From yesterday's Miami Herald and the MSN News website, they had this headline:

“' 'Enough is enough': Commissioners and cruise execs urge CDC to let cruising resume” with these highlights: “Five months after South Florida became a hotbed for COVID-19 cruise outbreaks, Miami-Dade commissioners and cruise executives are urging the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to give the cruise industry the OK to restart sailings as soon as possible.  At a virtual tourism and ports committee meeting Thursday, Commissioner Rebeca Sosa scolded the federal health agency charged with the country’s public health response to COVID-19, saying it has been too slow to communicate with the industry and must work quickly to get cruising up and running again.  'The problem is it’s not fair that the CDC is not paying attention and communicating with the cruise industry,” Sosa said, citing the time between when cruise companies submitted plans to the agency regarding how to mitigate COVID-19 spread among crew in mid-April and the finalizing of those plans in late July. 'We cannot wait another 14 weeks.'  The meeting did not touch on safety concerns.  Commissioners didn’t ask executives for details about how to avoid the disease spread and complications that left hundreds of passengers at sea for weeks.   Sosa and Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings CEO Frank Del Rio said cruise ships are no more dangerous than hotels or airplanes. That claim has been refuted by the CDC, which has repeatedly noted the unique challenge in preventing COVID-19 spread at sea.  Said Del Rio, 'It’s unconscionable what’s happened to the cruise industry. We’ve been quiet for too long.' ”

 

Much is in this highly-detailed story as to what's all has happened . . . AND NOT . . . since cruising has been shut down.  Clearly based on the announcements from Dr. Fauci and others during the past week, a vaccine and some type of "return to normal" will not be happening during the next few months.  This story from the newspaper at the center of the cruise industry in South Florida also noted: "Crew continue to contract COVID-19 aboard laid-up ships, according to CDC data obtained by the Miami Herald via a Freedom of Information Act request. At least seven ships in U.S. waters during the month of August reported COVID-19 or COVID-like illnesses to the CDC that month."

 

Full story at:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/enough-is-enough-commissioners-and-cruise-execs-urge-cdc-to-let-cruising-resume/ar-BB18UCmI

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Venice: Loving It & Why??!!  Is one of your future desires or past favorites? See these many visual samples for its great history and architecture.  This posting is now at 88,616 views.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1278226

 

From the Wall Street Journal this morning, here are the "charts" for the three major cruise lines as to how those in the financial markets have rated these stocks during the most-recent five trading days.  YES, lots of ups and downs that have been somewhat independent of the overall market trends.  Many questions and uncertainty as to when and how cruising will resume.:

(Open your screen/viewer wider to see these visuals larger/better!)

 

 

[TLCOhio]

From the Reuters newswire a few minutes ago this morning, they had this headline: “Carnival third-quarter losses to reach almost $3 billion” with these highlights: “Carnival Corp said on Tuesday it expects to post a loss of $2.9 billion in the third quarter, hurt by the suspension of cruises due to the COVID-19 pandemic, sending the cruise operator’s shares down 3% in premarket trade.  The cruise business is one of the worst affected from the health crisis.  Carnival, which has already raised billions in debt, said it was planning to raise a further $1 billion through a stock offering.  The company,  also said in a filing that the loss figure the third quarter ended Aug. 31 included non-cash impairment charges of $0.9 billion. The Princess Cruises operator also said its 18 less efficient ships, which accounted for about 12% of pre-pandemic capacity but only 3% of its operating income in 2019, have left or are expected to leave the fleet.”

 

Not good news for the major cruise lines.  BUT, it looks as if they can go to the markets to raise more cash and/or sell added stock to be able to last longer while waiting to resume sailing operations.  

 

Full story at:

https://in.reuters.com/article/carnival-corp-outlook-idINL4N2GC307

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Amazon River-Caribbean 2015 adventure live/blog starting in Barbados. Many visuals from this amazing river and Caribbean Islands (Dutch ABC's, St. Barts, Dominica, Grenada, San Juan, etc.).  Now at 67,426 views:

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2157696 

[clo]

2 hours ago, TLCOhio said:

“Carnival third-quarter losses to reach almost $3 billion”

Have you considered posting non-Silversea- specific info on other boards? It would help inform others.

[Randyk47]

Have to say I’m not running out and buying any cruise line corporation stock any time soon.  I already have several hundred shares in a utility company in Chapter 11 and don’t want more.  😕

[TLCOhio]

5 hours ago, Randyk47 said:

Have to say I’m not running out and buying any cruise line corporation stock any time soon.  I already have several hundred shares in a utility company in Chapter 11 and don’t want more.  😕

 

Agree with Randy that I am not running out to buy any cruise ship stock.  Too many questions and significant uncertainty.  Personally, I am not big in gambling!!!??  Especially with my own money!  BUT, their stock values are still an interesting "indicator" as to how much confidence the financial community has for their future recovery.  

 

From the Wall Street Journal's MarketWatch feature today, they had this headline: “Carnival’s stock takes a dive after plans for stock offering, increased ship disposals” with this sub-head: "Royal Caribbean optimistic that CDC could lift no-sail order sooner rather than later, analyst says, but shares fall along with Carnival’s".

 

Here some of this story's highlights: “Shares of Carnival Corp. dropped Tuesday, helping drag down its peers’ stocks, after the cruise operator disclosed plans for a $1 billion stock offering and for accelerated capacity reductions, as it deals with the negative effects of the COVID-19 pandemic on its operations. The company also said it swung to a net loss of nearly $3 billion in the third quarter, including more than $900 million in losses on ship sales and impairments.  The stock CCL tumbled as much as 10.0% early in the session, before paring some losses to be down 8.9% in active afternoon trading. Volume was 57.4 million shares, enough to make the stock the third-most actively traded on the New York Stock Exchange,.  Carnival earlier filed a prospectus with the Securities and Exchange Commission under which it could sell up to $1 billion worth of its common stock. Based on current prices, that could represent about 60.4 million shares, or about 10.1% of the shares outstanding.  Carnival also said it now expects to dispose of 18 cruise ships in fiscal 2020, representing 12% of the company’s capacity, up from previous expectations that it would dispose of 13 ships.  The company said the monthly average cash burn rate for the third quarter was $770 million.”

 

As to the final Wall Street results for today, the overall market stayed about even.   Royal Caribbean was down 4.6% in value.  Carnival was  down 10.8%.  NCL was down today 4.6%.

 

For clo's good question of "Have you considered posting non-Silversea- specific info on other boards? It would help inform other", yes, I appreciate this suggestion.  Good idea, but there is only so much time available each day.  Also, on some other boards, they do not always like for "outsiders" to share less than positive news about the challenges facing their favorite cruise lines during a difficult period when they cannot be cruising themselves.  Might do more in the future.  Excellent, encouraging idea.    

 

Full story at:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/carnivals-stock-takes-a-dive-after-plans-for-stock-offering-increased-ship-disposals-2020-09-15?adobe_mc=MCMID%3D33151612543613868540432315688083254519|MCORGID%3DCB68E4BA55144CAA0A4C98A5%40AdobeOrg|TS%3D1600194512

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

AFRICA?!!?: Fun, interesting visuals, plus travel details from this early 2016 live/blog. At 50,135 views. Featuring Cape Town, South Africa’s coast, Mozambique, Victoria Falls/Zambia and Botswana's famed Okavango Delta.

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2310337

[cruiseej]

Carnival is aiming to sell $1 billion in stock. They're burning $770 million each month. So this stock sale would buy them 6 weeks of losses? Well that doesn't seem good. How useful is 6 more weeks when they need 6 more months of cash?

[philipb]

2 hours ago, cruiseej said:

Carnival is aiming to sell $1 billion in stock. They're burning $770 million each month. So this stock sale would buy them 6 weeks of losses? Well that doesn't seem good. How useful is 6 more weeks when they need 6 more months of cash?

 

The prospect of the three major cruise companies surviving is looking increasingly remote. Their balance sheets are under considerable strain. 

[TLCOhio]

10 hours ago, cruiseej said:

Carnival is aiming to sell $1 billion in stock. They're burning $770 million each month. So this stock sale would buy them 6 weeks of losses? Well that doesn't seem good. How useful is 6 more weeks when they need 6 more months of cash?

 

Appreciate these great comments and the follow-up above, plus what was wisely summarized by philipb.  To label "considerable strain" for their balance sheets is somewhat of an understatement.   

 

From MSN and the Motley Fool financial website this morning, they had this headline: “Carnival Stock Investors Are Playing a Dangerous GameI” with these highlights: “They say that a rising tide lifts all ships, but what happens when the waves are rough and those same ships start to take on water? Shares of Carnival tumbled 11% on Tuesday after the company posted disappointing preliminary results for the fiscal third quarter that ended in August.  Fellow cruise line operators Royal Caribbean and Norwegian Cruise Line slipped in sympathy, down nearly 5% apiece. With Carnival scaling back its fleet and printing more shares, getting back to where it was a year ago -- in terms of revenue and per-share profitability -- isn't going to be a smooth voyage. Investors considering a stake in Carnival or any of the publicly traded players may want to make sure they check the ports of call before walking up the gangway. Carnival had $8.2 billion in cash and equivalents on its balance sheet at the end of August. Given the cruising giant's improving monthly cash-burn rate -- going from $770 million in the fiscal third quarter to a projected average $530 million monthly hole in the current quarter -- that would seem to be enough. It might not be enough, and it seems as if even Carnival knows it. Carnival on Tuesday filed a prospectus to raise another $1 billion from time to time through an at-the-market equity offering. Wall Street has applauded the cash grab, but it comes at a price. Carnival, Royal Caribbean, and Norwegian Cruise Line now have more debt, and the interest expense will weigh on future earnings. They also have more shares outstanding, and that will be an anchor for net income per share.”

 

Full story at:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/carnival-stock-investors-are-playing-a-dangerous-game/ar-BB196DJD

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Kotor/Montenegro:  Exciting visual samples, tips, details, etc., for this scenic, historic location. Over 47,869 views.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1439193

[Silver Spectre]

Based on today’s reduction in SS’s FCC from 125% to ‘up to 110%’ finances are deteriorating fast.

[clo]

33 minutes ago, Silver Spectre said:

Based on today’s reduction in SS’s FCC from 125% to ‘up to 110%’ finances are deteriorating fast.

And CDC director said today that he thinks it will mid late second quarter for access to vaccine for many/most.

[spinnaker2]

Yes the vaccine time table certainly is sobering.

More concerning was the fact that the vaccine may be approved but also have a considerable high rate of failure which means it won't be effective across the board.

 

Face masks are the best protection according to the CDC.

 

Do I feel confidant about going on a cruise in 2021?

No I don' t. 

But then I don' t feel confidant in anything I am hearing right now. 

I feel rudderless.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 16, 2020 by spinnaker2

[Observer]

2 hours ago, Silver Spectre said:

Based on today’s reduction in SS’s FCC from 125% to ‘up to 110%’ finances are deteriorating fast.

 

I read this rather differently.  If they were desperate to conserve cash, they might have raised rather than lowered the FCC.  The reduction makes the FCC less attractive and a pure cash refund more attractive.  Hardly a sign, IMHO, of "deteriorating" finances.  On the contrary, the change may reflect confidence in advance bookings (including mine 🙂) and a reduced need to offer discounts to encourage such bookings.

[Silver Spectre]

19 minutes ago, Observer said:

 

I read this rather differently.  If they were desperate to conserve cash, they might have raised rather than lowered the FCC.  The reduction makes the FCC less attractive and a pure cash refund more attractive.  Hardly a sign, IMHO, of "deteriorating" finances.  On the contrary, the change may reflect confidence in advance bookings (including mine 🙂) and a reduced need to offer discounts to encourage such bookings.

Interesting view, I always thought the FCC was a cash conservation tactic.

[alexandria]

While the change may reflect increased future bookings, it has done nothing to increase this first-time Silversea passenger's confidence in their ability to deliver a quality product and service as expected.

 

In my view, Silversea promoted the Cruise with Confidence policy (by marketing emails and press releases), encouraging passengers to book now with Confidence as they could cancel and receive 100% FCC, and

 

"RECEIVE 125% FUTURE CRUISE CREDIT FOR VOYAGES CANCELED BY SILVERSEA"

 

(Their bolding, all caps and underlining, not mine!)

 

Yesterday they quietly changed that policy to provide for "up to 110%" future cruise credit for voyages canceled by Silversea (no press releases or marketing emails this time) and today have canceled a number of cruises, refusing to honor the Cruise with Confidence policy in effect at the time of booking and instead offering the reduced 110% FCC.

 

At worst, this reflects a lack of integrity and trustworthiness by Silversea who induced passengers to provide an influx of cash and bookings when desperately needed and leave cash for already booked and paid in full cruises with Silversea.  At best, this reflects an inconsiderate and inferior move not worthy of a luxury travel brand.  As a consumer, I expect companies that I entrust with my business and with my hard-earned money to engage in fair dealing and honor their promises and commitments.  In this instance, Silversea has failed.

My travel agent is reaching out to Silversea with my concerns, I will be interested in their response.

[Caroldoll]

1 hour ago, alexandria said:

While the change may reflect increased future bookings, it has done nothing to increase this first-time Silversea passenger's confidence in their ability to deliver a quality product and service as expected.

 

In my view, Silversea promoted the Cruise with Confidence policy (by marketing emails and press releases), encouraging passengers to book now with Confidence as they could cancel and receive 100% FCC, and

 

"RECEIVE 125% FUTURE CRUISE CREDIT FOR VOYAGES CANCELED BY SILVERSEA"

 

(Their bolding, all caps and underlining, not mine!)

 

Yesterday they quietly changed that policy to provide for "up to 110%" future cruise credit for voyages canceled by Silversea (no press releases or marketing emails this time) and today have canceled a number of cruises, refusing to honor the Cruise with Confidence policy in effect at the time of booking and instead offering the reduced 110% FCC.

 

At worst, this reflects a lack of integrity and trustworthiness by Silversea who induced passengers to provide an influx of cash and bookings when desperately needed and leave cash for already booked and paid in full cruises with Silversea.  At best, this reflects an inconsiderate and inferior move not worthy of a luxury travel brand.  As a consumer, I expect companies that I entrust with my business and with my hard-earned money to engage in fair dealing and honor their promises and commitments.  In this instance, Silversea has failed.

My travel agent is reaching out to Silversea with my concerns, I will be interested in their response.

I am involved in the fires.  I need the money that I paid Silversea to live $38,000/. I cancelled a cruise over a year and a half away, and I have been waiting for over a month (just slightly).  They tell me I have to wait at least three more weeks.  This is not fair.  I won't book Silversea again.  I need my money back.  

[clo]

3 minutes ago, Caroldoll said:

I am involved in the fires.  I need the money that I paid Silversea to live $38,000/. I cancelled a cruise over a year and a half away, and I have been waiting for over a month (just slightly).  They tell me I have to wait at least three more weeks.  This is not fair.  I won't book Silversea again.  I need my money back.  

Let me recommend that you email the CEO of Silversea and their parent company. Tell your story fully. I'll bet you you'll hear something quickly. PS: I've done this with a cruise line and a European airline and it was effective. Best of luck.

[brimary]

10 hours ago, alexandria said:

While the change may reflect increased future bookings, it has done nothing to increase this first-time Silversea passenger's confidence in their ability to deliver a quality product and service as expected.

 

In my view, Silversea promoted the Cruise with Confidence policy (by marketing emails and press releases), encouraging passengers to book now with Confidence as they could cancel and receive 100% FCC, and

 

"RECEIVE 125% FUTURE CRUISE CREDIT FOR VOYAGES CANCELED BY SILVERSEA"

 

(Their bolding, all caps and underlining, not mine!)

 

Yesterday they quietly changed that policy to provide for "up to 110%" future cruise credit for voyages canceled by Silversea (no press releases or marketing emails this time) and today have canceled a number of cruises, refusing to honor the Cruise with Confidence policy in effect at the time of booking and instead offering the reduced 110% FCC.

 

At worst, this reflects a lack of integrity and trustworthiness by Silversea who induced passengers to provide an influx of cash and bookings when desperately needed and leave cash for already booked and paid in full cruises with Silversea.  At best, this reflects an inconsiderate and inferior move not worthy of a luxury travel brand.  As a consumer, I expect companies that I entrust with my business and with my hard-earned money to engage in fair dealing and honor their promises and commitments.  In this instance, Silversea has failed.

My travel agent is reaching out to Silversea with my concerns, I will be interested in their response.

Agree with your excellent summary of the unprofessional approach of Silversea to he important subject of refunds.In today’s world of electronic banking a refund requested by a client in accordance with Regulations Could and should be made within max 48 hours.Silversea have no desire to make prompt refunds which is a disgusting and dismissive policy to pursue .It s up to Silversea regular clients to refrain from making future bookings until they can be made with the firm knowledge that the cruise will sail and we as clients are not merely solving a Silversea cash flow problems by false promises of future cruises taking place.Received Silversea latest brochure today which has a page titled Cruise with Confidence stating refunds will offer FCC 125%..NOT TRUE.Many other false statements included with no respect for future clients. All very sad to report as regular SS cruisers every year since 1999.

[TLCOhio]

On 9/16/2020 at 8:19 PM, alexandria said:

At worst, this reflects a lack of integrity and trustworthiness by Silversea who induced passengers to provide an influx of cash and bookings when desperately needed and leave cash for already booked and paid in full cruises with Silversea.  At best, this reflects an inconsiderate and inferior move not worthy of a luxury travel brand.  As a consumer, I expect companies that I entrust with my business and with my hard-earned money to engage in fair dealing and honor their promises and commitments.  In this instance, Silversea has failed.   My travel agent is reaching out to Silversea with my concerns, I will be interested in their response.

 

Good luck to alexandria and others in waiting to get your refunds.  As we experienced back in March and April, Silversea and others have been "dragging their feet", including various financial tricks to preserved their "CASH FLOW".  Nice for them.  Not for us as customers!!  My guess/speculation is that many top cruise executives are hoping for traditional cruise "loyalists" to be forgiving and trusting.  BUT, clearly we are are in different times.  

 

Below you can see the latest update as to how cruise lines are being currently viewed by those on Wall Street.  Not a good past week, nor a positive opening this morning.  Part of the bad news this am is due to a strong negative downward trend for the overall market being down 2% early this am for all stocks. 

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Dubrovnik!  Nice visual samples, tips, details, etc., for this super scenic location. Over 47,476 views.    

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1439227

 

From this morning's Wall Street Journal just before the markets were to open at 9:30 am, here are the charts for the three major cruise lines during the past five days.  Clearly, the trend was down!  In pre-market trading earlier this morning, the values for these stock was continuing downward, also, even more than the overall market drop of 2%.:

(Open your screen/viewer wider to see these visuals larger/better!)

 

 

[alexandria]

My wife and I have enjoyed cruising over the past thirty (30) years when our work schedules permitted.  (Longer for her as she regularly went with her grandparents on cruises in the seventies and early eighties).  When I retired, I looked forward to cruising often and since I have been blessed with resources that would allow me to enjoy a half-dozen or so luxury cruises each year, I sought out recommendations on a luxury cruise line to which we might become loyal clients.  Everyone we spoke to in our circle of friends who enjoyed luxury cruise travel preferred Silversea.  And when the COVID shutdown occurred and the cruise industry began to suffer, while every one of our friends who recommended Silversea chose to hold off on any new bookings, we decided to invest in a future Silversea cruise.  And we had two other sailings we intended to book either onboard or upon our return if indeed Silversea turned out to be as excellent as others had suggested.  In hindsight, our confidence in Silversea was misplaced.

 

If Silversea had offered the 125% future cruise credit as promised, we likely would have chosen to take the FCC and used it to book a mid-2021 cruise.  But Silversea likely did us a favor when the demonstrated their lack of integrity and trustworthiness, motivating us to demand a cash refund instead.  Otherwise, by accepting FCC rather than a cash refund, we would have been LOCKED IN to cruising with Silversea. 

 

So what happens if in January, Silversea announces a "resumption of sailing" but also puts into place COVID safety measures which would result in a personal decision that the cruise experience would no longer be very enjoyable.  Think masks everywhere except in stateroom.  No spa services.  Fitness center closed.  No ability to leave the ship unless on a Silversea excursion.  We just don't know because after more than six months of the cruising COVID shutdown, Silversea hasn't announced any tentative plans to resume healthy and safe cruising; Silversea didn't even convene safety experts to begin assessing how they would resume safer sailing until July, four full months after ceasing operations.

 

Even if the COVID precautions are not onerous, who is to say that Silversea doesn't implement significant cost-cutting measures.  Some may not even be noticed until you are already on board.  Perhaps subtle changes to the menu, such as NY strip steak instead of filet or ribeye.  Farm raised salmon instead of wild caught trout.  Vegetable lasagna instead of meat lasagna.  A reduced selection of beverages consisting of lower quality brands.  Fewer butlers with more suites to serve so service is not as attentive and personal.  Fewer servers in the dining venues resulting in slower service.  If the spa is open, higher prices.  Excursions...higher prices.  Fitness classes...higher prices.  Those are all things that might be implemented behind the scenes.  How would I feel about sailing on Silversea on a cruise booked for mid-2021 if the reviews from passengers on the first resumed cruises are primarily negative?  Would I still be excited about our voyage if photos of the "new" menus showed a reduction in quality and variety of dishes?  If I had accepted the FCC, my only option would be to cruise anyway even if the experience was going to be less than satisfying.  Either that or I could simply not cruise in which case the money spent on the original (now canceled) cruise would be simply wasted.

 

And since Silversea apparently has no problem refusing to honor the promises they have made in writing and shrugging off the resulting loss of some of their customers, do you think they will hesitate to make cost-cutting decisions as to matters that they haven't promised in writing?  Having seen how they have "dug in their heels" about the retroactive reduction in FCC despite the clear legal obligation they have to honor the terms of their policy in effect when booking, I personally have no confidence in the ability of Silversea to deliver a quality product when (if) they resume cruising. 

 

Two of our friends who have enjoyed Silversea cruising often over the years, and who chose not to cancel two existing bookings based upon the 125% FCC Cruise with Confidence policy, were among those affected by this issue when one of their cruises was also canceled this past week.  They apologized to us this weekend for recommending Silversea and shared their opinion that the Silversea they are now seeing does not appear to resemble in any way the Silversea they have loyally supported over the years.  They are so frustrated by what they view as a betrayal of their most loyal clients (those who were actually willing to invest in Silversea cruise bookings during the COVID crisis, rather that keeping their money on the sidelines), that they canceled their second booking and have said that they don't intend to sail Silversea again.

[brimary]

I find it interesting from your excellent and detailed report as a new Silversea client that your views are a mirror image of ours who represent the Old Brigade having completed 22 successive and enjoyable years of cruising with Silversea.The appalling service by Silversea in respect of delays in refunding is not becoming of a luxury line and we shall not be booking any future SS cruises in the foreseeable future as a result of the disrespectful approach to refunds described on this Board alone during the Pandemic.