Miami Herald story Crew too expensive to send home.

[Algebralovr]

Celebrity has already chartered a number of planes to get crew members home.  They combined crew from a couple of ships at a time to do so.  
They are trying to send more crew home,  but many of them still on board don’t want to go.  They have said that health care at home is lacking, and they feel safer on board, according to a friend on board.  Many are no longer receiving pay, but they are staying in guest cabins, have 3 squares a day and health care available on board.  
 

I’ve noticed that all 6 Celebrity ships are co-located lately, and a number of Royal ships are nearby.  My guess is they will have more chartered planes hear out before too long.  They can use a lifeboat to tender between ships with crew from the same country to get groups together.

[mac_tlc]

So much for the Herald article, now that Royal has announced a major repatriation effort to get crew home all around the world. 
 

mac_tlc

[MarLieb]

15 hours ago, mac_tlc said:

So much for the Herald article, now that Royal has announced a major repatriation effort to get crew home all around the world. 
 

mac_tlc

 

Yes, I saw RCCL and X signed the CDC letter.  Kudos to them:  https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article242471226.html

[twins_to_alaska]

For those that can't access the miamiherald article without subscription:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/royal-caribbean-ceo-agrees-to-the-cdcs-terms-for-disembarking-crew-stuck-on-ships/ar-BB13yaYg

 

CNN also had

 

After spending more than a month in quarantine due to the Covid-19 pandemic, crew members onboard Royal Caribbean and Celebrity Cruise Line ships are one step closer to disembarking.

In a letter to employees, Celebrity Cruises says they will agree to strict guidelines set forth from the US Centers for Disease Control in order to disembark crew members safely.

"The CDC has asked me and other cruise line leaders to sign a letter limiting our options for getting you home and taking responsibility for your actions in order to secure their approval to disembark you. In the spirit of doing everything we possibly can to get you home, I have decided to sign this letter," Celebrity Cruises President and Chief Executive Officer Lisa Lutoff-Perlo said. 

Under the agreed upon guidelines, cruise lines will begin transferring certain crew members by nationality onto different ships around the world. American crew on ships close to the United States will be repatriated with private transportation beginning as soon as possible, presumably in the next week, the letter stated. American crew members in Asia will be flown home from the Philippines as soon as the Manila airport reopens.

Crew members who do not wish to evacuate the ship will continue to receive room and board accommodations, the letter stated. 

Celebrity Cruises said so far, nearly 3,300 crew members have safely disembarked including 122 Americans who arrived home via commercial flights and private transportation.

Edited May 4, 2020 by twins_to_alaska

[Fouremco]

Not surprisingly, some of the steps they want to take make little sense. Instead of sending Canadians home, they plan to send them to the UK and from there back to Canada. 🤷🏼‍♂️ Just what they need after being cooped up on the ship for so long.

[paulh84]

27 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

Not surprisingly, some of the steps they want to take make little sense. Instead of sending Canadians home, they plan to send them to the UK and from there back to Canada. 🤷🏼‍♂️ Just what they need after being cooped up on the ship for so long.

 

I truly think they are just trying to work around the CDC's requirements (which are a bit ridiculous IMO).

 

If they don't have enough Canadians together at one central location to charter a flight, it's essentially impossible to return them to Canada. The cost of doing this is massive.  

 

Quote

1. The cruise ship operator must transport those disembarking directly to non-commercial transportation, which includes industry-chartered private transport, industry-chartered private flights, or personal vehicles (no rental cars, taxis, or ride-share services). Cruise line operators must further guarantee non- commercial transportation to their respective homes or new duty stations consistent with all applicable laws and guidance. Those include, but are not limited to, national, federal, state, and local public-health guidance as well as state and local stay-at-home orders.

 

2. [For U.S. citizens or lawful permanent resident crew members only] The cruise ship operator must notify federal, state, and local public-health authorities with jurisdiction for the port of disembarkation as well as for the final US destination of each disembarking crew member. The cruise ship operator must provide to the Centers for Disease Prevention and Control (email eocevent349@cdc.gov) the notifications to local and state health authorities as well as the responses from those authorities clearly stating that they have no objections to the planned disembarkation and travel.

 

3. The President and Chief Executive Officer of the operating cruise company, the Chief Ethics and/or Compliance Officer of the operating cruise company and all parent companies, and the highest-ranking Medical Officer of the operating cruise company and all parent companies should sign the following attestation:

 

• will not stay overnight in a hotel before the flight or at any point until they reach their final destination
• will not use public transportation (including taxis or ride-share services) to get to the airport/charter flight
• will not enter the public airport terminal
• will not take commercial aircraft after an initial charter flight
• will not have a transportation layover exceeding 8 hours
• will have no interaction with the public during their travel home or to their new duty station (e.g., rental car companies, restaurants, other public areas, etc.

 

Edited May 4, 2020 by paulh84

[Fouremco]

9 minutes ago, paulh84 said:

 

I truly think they are just trying to work around the CDC's requirements (which are a bit ridiculous IMO).

 

If they don't have enough Canadians together at one central location to charter a flight, it's essentially impossible to return them to Canada. The cost of doing this is massive.  

 

 

Maybe I need my afternoon coffee to clear my head, but how does sending them to the UK first make it any easier or cheaper? If flying them from Miami to Canada is expensive, it's going to be even more so to fly them to the UK and then back to Canada.

[downsmead]

I think there may not be enough Canadians to merit a charter or private transportation. Therefore will ship (sail) them to the UK from whence they can fly home.

Edited May 4, 2020 by downsmead

[paulh84]

7 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

Maybe I need my afternoon coffee to clear my head, but how does sending them to the UK first make it any easier or cheaper? If flying them from Miami to Canada is expensive, it's going to be even more so to fly them to the UK and then back to Canada.

 

It's a logistical horror story. They are sailing to Southampton, not flying. If there is a small total number of Canadians, they have to get them all to a centralized location to try to fly them to their Canadian destination(s) at the same time. And they have to have space available on ships to get them to a central location first. Given the cost of a charter flight, it's cheaper to group them together even if it means flying from the UK to Canada. 

 

Keep in mind they aren't just paying for the charter flight from point A to point B. They are also paying the empty legs to reposition the appropriate aircraft. It's very expensive.

 

The plan was:

 

Rhapsody of the Seas plan is to depart from Port Miami on May 13, and sail to Cartagena, Panama, Costa Rica, Honduras, Guatemala, and Belize where the ship will end her repatriation voyage on May 23.

Adventure of the Seas will depart from the Bahamas on May 9, and set sail to Haiti and Dominican Republic, ending her repatriation voyage in Jamaica on May 23.

 

Filipino crew will be transferred to Harmony and Liberty.

Harmony of the Seas will sail to Barbados, where Royal Caribbean have asked to operate harter flights to Manila every three days, starting May 11.

Liberty of the Seas will stay near Miami, from here Filipino crew will be repatriated by charter flights statring May 18.

 

Indian crew will be transferred aboard Anthem of the Seas 

The ship will depart on May 9, and set sail to Goa, where is expected to arrive on June 3. The Indian government has country shut down, except for ship repatriation of the Indian nationals.

 

Indonesian crew will be transferred to Explorer and Enchantment

Explorer of the Seas will set sail to Barbados from where charter flights will be organized for the Indonesian crew from May 9 to May 12.

 

Enchantment will sail to Miami for a charter flight on May 15, returning the crew to Jakarta and Denpasar.

 

The US crew repatriation plan

US crew close on Royal Caribbean ships sailing close to US ports will be repatriated with private transportation beginning May 6. US crew from Asia will be repatriated home from the Philipines as soon as Manila airport reopens. US crew on the ships located in the Mediterranean will be flown by May 20.

 

The Ukraine and Romanian crew will be transferred aboard Navigator of the Seas which will arrive in Miami and charter flights will be organized for May 16.

 

European, Canadian and all other nationalities will be transferred to Freedom, Empress and Majesty. All three ships will cross the Atlantic Ocean and sail to Southampton where charter flights will be organized for crew repatriation.

 

Empress and Majesty will depart Port Miami on May 15, and arrive in Southampton on May 28.

Freedom of the Seas will depart Port Miami on May 15, and arrive in Southampton on May 24.

 

There will be some last-minute changes but the company will not stop in their efforts to send the crew back home, the company says.

 

[npcl]

37 minutes ago, paulh84 said:

 

It's a logistical horror story. They are sailing to Southampton, not flying. If there is a small total number of Canadians, they have to get them all to a centralized location to try to fly them to their Canadian destination(s) at the same time. And they have to have space available on ships to get them to a central location first. Given the cost of a charter flight, it's cheaper to group them together even if it means flying from the UK to Canada. 

 

Keep in mind they aren't just paying for the charter flight from point A to point B. They are also paying the empty legs to reposition the appropriate aircraft. It's very expensive.

 

 

Most business charter flight services charge by billable hour, and not for the return with one way flights.  So lets say there were 10 passengers.  A 10 passenger jet would run about $4500 per billable flight hour.  

so if the cruise line were to fly them to Toronto for example A little over 3 hours flight time (figure 3.5 for taxi out, air traffic, etc.) you would get  $15750 for a very nice 10 passenger corporate jet or about $1575 per passenger.  Compared to keeping on the boat for quite a few more days then flying them from the UK.  A little pricey but not outrageously so.

 

I would expect that the cruise line could get a better rate.

 

Of course is does raise the question about what are the rules in Canada for people flying from the US.

 

 

Edited May 4, 2020 by npcl

[az_tchr]

On 4/30/2020 at 1:05 PM, chengkp75 said:

And there are hundreds of thousands of other merchant mariners who are in the same situation, but you don't hear about them because they crew change 4-5 at a time, and most ports worldwide don't allow crew changes anymore, or there are flight restrictions to the crew's home.  At least the cruise lines could take advantage of charter flights to get a couple of hundred crew home at one time, or as some have done, to use one or more of their ships to take them home.  Merchant mariners, of whom cruise ship crews are a small part, account for 100,000 crew changes every single month.

Well over half of merchant ship crew changes are on ships with dedicated runs.  Back and forth.  Tankers, dry bulk and cargo ships also have a small crew that are on board for extended time.  Pretty easy to sort covid if it happened.

[Fouremco]

47 minutes ago, downsmead said:

I think there may not be enough Canadians to merit a charter or private transportation. Therefore will ship (sail) them to the UK from whence they can fly home.

My understanding was that the CDC required them to be returned home, not just drop them off in some foreign country to make their own way home:

 

The cruise ship operator must transport those disembarking directly to non-commercial transportation, which includes industry-chartered private transport, industry-chartered private flights, or personal vehicles (no rental cars, taxis, or ride-share services). Cruise line operators must further guarantee non- commercial transportation to their respective homes or new duty stations consistent with all applicable laws and guidance. 

 

43 minutes ago, paulh84 said:

It's a logistical horror story. They are sailing to Southampton, not flying. If there is a small total number of Canadians, they have to get them all to a centralized location to try to fly them to their Canadian destination(s) at the same time. And they have to have space available on ships to get them to a central location first. Given the cost of a charter flight, it's cheaper to group them together even if it means flying from the UK to Canada. 

 

Keep in mind they aren't just paying for the charter flight from point A to point B. They are also paying the empty legs to reposition the appropriate aircraft. It's very expensive.

Right, sailing to Southampton, I told you I needed my coffee! But I'm still fuzzy on why use Southampton as the gathering point for Canadians instead of Miami. Why not put them on the Navigator of the Seas, along with the Ukrainian and Romanian crews, or on one of the other ships taking crews to Miami for flights home? I do understand that it is expensive, but unless the Brits are offering cut rate charters, Miami still seems the logical choice. 

 

14 minutes ago, npcl said:

Of course is does raise the question about what are the rules in Canada for people flying from the US.

 

Not an issue, other than the fact that they would be obliged to self-quarantine for 14 days upon arrival.

 

- - - - - - - -

This CBC story addresses the question of Canadian crew members stuck aboard cruise ships. According to the story, Global Affairs Canada in trying to coordinate a charter from the Caribbean. https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/cruise-ships-stranded-crew-members-cdc-covid-19-1.5552424

 

[Oceangoer2]

On 4/30/2020 at 8:16 PM, jelayne said:

I’m sure most would like to go home but from what I have seen on various social media sights the ones on  celebrity ships are staying in guest accommodations ( not sharing)  and are being treated well. 
 

 

Saw an interview with a X ship (Infinity) performer who really wants to go home to Illinois.  Has been notified more than a few times the date, then it's cancelled.  Finally her mother went to her congress-person (don't know he or she) and now there seems to be some action.  She says she'll believe it when it happens.  I think it must be very hard to coordinate all these different home locations.  The background of her cabin appeared to be 'nice' not luxury;  didn't see a window or balcony.

[jelayne]

9 minutes ago, oceangoer2 said:

Saw an interview with a X ship (Infinity) performer who really wants to go home to Illinois.  Has been notified more than a few times the date, then it's cancelled.  Finally her mother went to her congress-person (don't know he or she) and now there seems to be some action.  She says she'll believe it when it happens.  I think it must be very hard to coordinate all these different home locations.  The background of her cabin appeared to be 'nice' not luxury;  didn't see a window or balcony.

 

She has been in a few different articles in the latest I saw she and all crew had been moved t guest cabins & she said she was in balcony cabin.

[upwarduk]

Quote

think there may not be enough Canadians to merit a charter or private transportation. Therefore will ship (sail) them to the UK from whence they can fly home.

 

 

Today the UK government announced that all air passengers will be tested and quarrentened  on arrival at UK airports ( not before time). Just wonder how this will impact these plans.

Edited May 4, 2020 by upwarduk

[SeaHunt]

3 hours ago, paulh84 said:

 

I truly think they are just trying to work around the CDC's requirements (which are a bit ridiculous IMO).

 

 

 

JMO even though I want cruises to restart sometimes I can sympathize with the CDC in the midst of this lousy pandemic:

 

https://balidiscovery.com/news/swabbing-the-nasal-passages-of-those-who-swabbed-the-decks

 

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/04/25/national/coronavirus-outbreak-cruise-ship-nagasaki/#.XrCgoahKg2w

[GottaKnowWhen]

1 hour ago, SeaHunt said:

 

JMO even though I want cruises to restart sometimes I can sympathize with the CDC in the midst of this lousy pandemic:

...

If the CDC had done a competent job in the first place, we would have a robust testing regime. Somebody needs to exit airplane or ship or cross border from Canada, test to check if infected? If so, special Epidemic Quarantine rules: isolation, tracking, etc. But for those healthy, let them go home or to the airport or whatever. The whole point of the CDC freak out over cruise passengers and crew is that they are clueless as to who is or might be a danger to the U.S. And of course we are doing so well that we we can’t afford one or two more infections that might be caused by the occasional mistake. 

[chengkp75]

6 hours ago, az_tchr said:

Well over half of merchant ship crew changes are on ships with dedicated runs.  Back and forth.  Tankers, dry bulk and cargo ships also have a small crew that are on board for extended time.  Pretty easy to sort covid if it happened.

The problem is, the majority of ports are not allowing any crew changes at all, regardless of the health of the crew at the time. The crew are stuck on their ships regardless of whether there is any illness at all onboard.

[az_tchr]

13 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

The problem is, the majority of ports are not allowing any crew changes at all, regardless of the health of the crew at the time. The crew are stuck on their ships regardless of whether there is any illness at all onboard.

That is not true for merchant ships.  They have small crews and a homeport.  Crews are exchanged there.  There is not a covid issue because a round trip from say China to the US takes at least a month.  Crew is not allowed to leave during that time, thus no risk of crew infecting the people at the port.  With crew changes done infrequently it is not hard to swing by a port to exchange crew.

The other thing is ships have between 20-25 crew.  Not the 1000+ on a cruise ship.

[chengkp75]

9 minutes ago, az_tchr said:

That is not true for merchant ships.  They have small crews and a homeport.  Crews are exchanged there.  There is not a covid issue because a round trip from say China to the US takes at least a month.  Crew is not allowed to leave during that time, thus no risk of crew infecting the people at the port.  With crew changes done infrequently it is not hard to swing by a port to exchange crew.

The other thing is ships have between 20-25 crew.  Not the 1000+ on a cruise ship.

Really.  Been in the merchant marine long?  I've been in for 45+ years.  Yes, merchant ships have small crews, but while there are about 185,000 cruise ship crew, total worldwide, there are about 10 times that, or 1.6 million merchant mariners, who account for an average of 100,000 crew changes every month.  The crew do not all change out in the "homeport".  Foreign crew do not typically sign on for a "trip" or "round trip", but for a specified number of months.  When their time is up, they sign off, wherever they are, and new crew are flown in.  This is a significant problem:

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/ships-are-moving-but-exhausted-sailors-are-stuck-at-sea-under-coronavirus-restrictions-11586084402

 

https://www.ttnews.com/articles/ship-crews-stuck-lockdown-strain-global-supply-chains

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/25/world/europe/coronavirus-ship-crews-trapped.html

 

https://theconversation.com/thousands-of-seafarers-are-stranded-aboard-ships-with-no-end-to-their-shift-in-sight-137324

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-04-09/with-sailors-stranded-shippers-face-a-hard-choice

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52289303

 

https://www.ft.com/content/a7d43ddf-d2c7-4674-a01f-2dca9be45252

 

But, hey, maybe they just don't understand how merchant ships work.

[BigAl94]

Keep an eye on this updating list https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/cruise-ship/cruise-ship-member-disembarkations.html