Orlando Ashford is leaving HAL

[iancal]

I feel for all of the people at the Carnival Corp group of companies. and for all others who are similarly impacted in the travel and leisure sectors..   This must be a terribly unsettling time for them.  Not knowing can be the worst part.  I was with the same company, in a management position, for 25 years.   Through numerous recessions,  poor executive management at times, market turmoil,  three mergers, and  significant downsizing for 20 of those years.   

 

This is not going to be a six month wonder that they will back as before.  I expect it to be very different.  It is not only about livelihoods and careers.  There is a personal impact to lives-marriages, relationships, personal health, etc that can transcend the obvious  financial challenges.

Edited May 18, 2020 by iancal

[Tampa Girl]

On 5/17/2020 at 10:14 PM, BarbarianPaul said:

I’m sure if HA had shown a substantial increase in profits over the course of Ashford’s tenure, he’d still be there. One other element that we haven’t discussed might have figured into his dismissal as well, the guest satisfaction survey. We all know how important that is, because we’re reminded by practically every crew member that there will be hell to pay for them if we don’t check every box as excellent. Maybe those numbers were down.

 

Also, though you certainly can’t blame him for what’s happening worldwide, the events on both the Zandaam and Westerdam were certainly not bright spots on his resume. Maybe he took the fall for letting them continue to sail.

 

Perhaps not, but his decision to let his ships sail was duplicated by every other cruise line during that time, which is why we now have dozens of ship around the world either anchored or trying to offload crew and staff.

[BarbarianPaul]

On 5/20/2020 at 7:24 AM, Tampa Girl said:

 

Perhaps not, but his decision to let his ships sail was duplicated by every other cruise line during that time, which is why we now have dozens of ship around the world either anchored or trying to offload crew and staff.

One difference. Four people died on the Zandaam. The ship became a poster child for the new horrors of cruising. For better or worse, it happened on OA’s watch. 

[Tampa Girl]

15 hours ago, BarbarianPaul said:

One difference. Four people died on the Zandaam. The ship became a poster child for the new horrors of cruising. For better or worse, it happened on OA’s watch. 

 

Other cruiselines suffered deaths, as well.  Princess did, and I believe that Costa also had fatalities.  Zaandam became the poster child for the horrors of being unable to find a welcoming port, thereby inviting the inevitable spread of the virus aggravated by the delay.  It occurred on OA's watch, but was aggravated by factors beyond HAL's control.  The obvious comment, however is:  Why was the ship allowed to sail by that point?  That is a valid point.

[KirkNC]

I have been very critical of Mr Ashford’s leadership as I consider his reign full of bad decisions.  I don’t think he made those decisions in a vacuum, I believe he was under pressure from CCL to squeeze more profits out of HAL.  Unfortunately that led to lots of short term thinking.  I think the decisions on what to do and what not to do during the pandemic were also vetted with CCL leaders.  I have met Mr Ashford and some of his family.  He is a very nice man and well liked by many HAL staff.  Unfortunately he was set up for failure when he was put in a position where e he had little experience and knowledge.

Edited May 23, 2020 by KirkNC

[Himself]

16 hours ago, BarbarianPaul said:

One difference. Four people died on the Zandaam. The ship became a poster child for the new horrors of cruising. For better or worse, it happened on OA’s watch. 

All of this happened not because of Orlando.  It happened because the ship was not allowed to dock at the end of the cruise. 

[iancal]

WIthout knowledge of Mr. Ashford's directions and goals from his corporate masters, without knowledge of HAL's financials or their load factors over the past five years how can anyone say that Mr. Ashford was unsuccessful? 

 

I worked for a company that was more than happy to put up with a decrease in customer satisfaction in order to enhance the bottom line financials.  Strictly a trade off.   HAL is mass market cruise line operating in an environment of lowest common denominator.  Given that business environment Mr. Ashford may well have been successful in the eyes of his masters.   I am not saying that the changes were good for customers.  Achieving high levels of customer satisfaction might not have been a goal OR it may have been an acceptable trade off for enhanced financials by the people who set and judged his performance.

Edited May 23, 2020 by iancal

[KirkNC]

2 minutes ago, iancal said:

WIthout knowledge of Mr. Ashford's directions and goals from his corporate masters, without knowledge of HAL's financials or their load factors over the past five years how can anyone say that Mr. Ashford was unsuccessful?  

Because as a customer I experienced the impact of his decisions.

[kazu]

2 hours ago, Tampa Girl said:

 

Other cruiselines suffered deaths, as well.  Princess did, and I believe that Costa also had fatalities.  Zaandam became the poster child for the horrors of being unable to find a welcoming port, thereby inviting the inevitable spread of the virus aggravated by the delay.  It occurred on OA's watch, but was aggravated by factors beyond HAL's control.  The obvious comment, however is:  Why was the ship allowed to sail by that point?  That is a valid point.

 

Notice that all of these were under the Carnival Cruise LIne umbrella?  The other major cruise lines had cancelled the bulk of their cruises.

 

CCL took the hit as they chose to sail IMO.  World Cruise couldn’t be helped as the news wasn’t out then but after that, it was and the writing was on the wall in March when ships sailed.  JMO.

[Tampa Girl]

1 hour ago, kazu said:

 

Notice that all of these were under the Carnival Cruise LIne umbrella?  The other major cruise lines had cancelled the bulk of their cruises.

 

CCL took the hit as they chose to sail IMO.  World Cruise couldn’t be helped as the news wasn’t out then but after that, it was and the writing was on the wall in March when ships sailed.  JMO.

 

CCL was not the  only line with Covid deaths.  Take a look at this:  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_on_cruise_ships - Celebrity, NCL, RCL, etc.  

[BarbarianPaul]

2 hours ago, iancal said:

WIthout knowledge of Mr. Ashford's directions and goals from his corporate masters, without knowledge of HAL's financials or their load factors over the past five years how can anyone say that Mr. Ashford was unsuccessful? 

 

I worked for a company that was more than happy to put up with a decrease in customer satisfaction in order to enhance the bottom line financials.  Strictly a trade off.   HAL is mass market cruise line operating in an environment of lowest common denominator.  Given that business environment Mr. Ashford may well have been successful in the eyes of his masters.   I am not saying that the changes were good for customers.  Achieving high levels of customer satisfaction might not have been a goal OR it may have been an acceptable trade off for enhanced financials by the people who set and judged his performance.

How can anyone say OA was unsuccessful? I tell you who: Carnival management..the folks who fired him! I doubt they would have made a change if he were viewed as wildly successful.

 

My wife and I are four star mariners, and have cruised with HA many many times. We like the fact that it’s low key, with interesting itineraries, but it’s also dull, stodgy and really not so much fun. I’m not suggesting bellyflop contests, but the brand really does need new life and a new vision, especially considering the challenges cruise lines are going to be facing soon to bring passengers back on their ships.

 

For me, I wish HA were more like Viking, with interesting and informed lecturers, discussions, star gazing...all sorts of smart unique activities. What did I get with HA? A boring cruise director reading a bland port description from a teleprompter for the places we were going to visit. Also, for what it’s worth, I felt the quality of food in the main dining room plummeted on our January cruise on the Westerdam. That cruise, by the way, was from Singapore to Hong Kong, the one right before the cruise to Tokyo and China that was turned away from every port. Boy did we dodge a bullet!

[kazu]

53 minutes ago, BarbarianPaul said:

For me, I wish HA were more like Viking, with interesting and informed lecturers, discussions, star gazing...all sorts of smart unique activities. What did I get with HA? A boring cruise director reading a bland port description from a teleprompter for the places we were going to visit.

 

And that’s what we had before OA made his changes.  We had lecturers, we had informed port talks (not just about shore excursions).  That cost HAL little - an inside cabin for a cruise for one person, I believe.

 

On every cruise I had been on with interesting ports, the show room has been mobbed with people listening to good lecturers.  OA in his wisdom took it away.

 

Thankfully, the Prinsendam (the rebel in the mix) still had good lecturers.  Not saying it had a million activities of course but the lecturers were decent.

 

Let’s hope whomever takes over uses some common sense.  There is good way to bring back some of the norms of HAL and still move into the future IMO.

 

 

[rkacruiser]

30 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

And that’s what we had before OA made his changes.  We had lecturers, we had informed port talks (not just about shore excursions).  That cost HAL little - an inside cabin for a cruise for one person, I believe.

 

On every cruise I had been on with interesting ports, the show room has been mobbed with people listening to good lecturers.  OA in his wisdom took it away.

 

Thankfully, the Prinsendam (the rebel in the mix) still had good lecturers.  Not saying it had a million activities of course but the lecturers were decent.

 

Let’s hope whomever takes over uses some common sense.  There is good way to bring back some of the norms of HAL and still move into the future IMO.

 

 

 

I share your experience and hopes.  

 

I would also request a new CEO to again provide a Protestant Minister and a Rabbi for appropriate services along with a Priest.  In my opinion, its asking a bit much for the "When and Where" to post a notice asking for interested guests to lead an interdenominational service or for guests to lead a Jewish service.  

[shrimp56]

On 5/12/2020 at 1:50 PM, ATC said:

I wonder if his leaving bonus will be delayed 60-90 days

You made me laugh!

[Roz]

1 hour ago, kazu said:

Let’s hope whomever takes over uses some common sense.  There is good way to bring back some of the norms of HAL and still move into the future IMO.

 

Agree with you, Kazu.  There needs to be a nod to tradition while moving forward.

[iancal]

My point was simply that we do not know if he was successful because we do not know HOW he was measured by the executives that he reported to at Carnival Corporation.

 

Do not assume that the Carnival Corporation measured him based on the comments on this forum.

[rkacruiser]

1 minute ago, iancal said:

My point was simply that we do not know if he was successful because we do not know HOW he was measured by the executives that he reported to at Carnival Corporation.

 

Do not assume that the Carnival Corporation measured him based on the comments on this forum.

 

I agree with your thinking.  Given that Mr. Ashford came to HAL with a successful Human Relations background and zero cruise industry experience, I still wonder why he was chosen.  Was there something in the human relations area of the Company that needed to be addressed?  

 

Now that the Company has had to furlough/release so many employees in Seattle and Santa Clarita, having such a "human relations" man at the helm might not be the best person to have in place going forward. 

 

 

[DFD1]

HAL could use some decent music in the Ocean Bar at happy hour for dancing...and in the Crow's Nest in the evenings.

 

I'm fine with music row, but there's no dancing along there except in the BB King performances....if your ears can take the volume.

[drowelf]

2 hours ago, iancal said:

My point was simply that we do not know if he was successful because we do not know HOW he was measured by the executives that he reported to at Carnival Corporation.

 

Do not assume that the Carnival Corporation measured him based on the comments on this forum.

I would be very surprised if CCL took any of our input at all in measuring Orlando's or Jan's or any of the other Line CEOsperformance.

 

. In todays short term corporation vision, the major factor that C-Suite executives are measured is the bottom line for the quarter. Many large corporations are afraid of making good long term decisions that adversely affect the short term quarterly results. When they do, they get savaged by the market analysts. 

[BarbarianPaul]

22 hours ago, drowelf said:

I would be very surprised if CCL took any of our input at all in measuring Orlando's or Jan's or any of the other Line CEOsperformance.

 

. In todays short term corporation vision, the major factor that C-Suite executives are measured is the bottom line for the quarter. Many large corporations are afraid of making good long term decisions that adversely affect the short term quarterly results. When they do, they get savaged by the market analysts. 

Of course they took our input. Ok, have no idea if they follow these boards, but surely they pay attention to the passenger surveys given on every cruise, where we voice many of the same concerns expressed here. Who knows if it was a contributing factor or not, but I’d be very surprised if CCL didn’t keep tabs on what their customers are thinking.

[iancal]

One thing they may see from this board is the complaints from very loyal HAL cruisers. 
 

Another thing they may notice is that those same cruisers are loyal to HAL and that their complaints do not appear to stop them from continuing to book more HAL cruises despite the complaining. 

 

What conclusion could be drawn from this If they were reading this board?
 

Edited May 25, 2020 by iancal

[Lido - Lanai]

3 hours ago, iancal said:

One thing they may see from this board is the complaints from very loyal HAL cruisers. 
 

Another thing they may notice is that those same cruisers are loyal to HAL and that their complaints do not appear to stop them from continuing to book more HAL cruises despite the complaining. 

 

What conclusion could be drawn from this If they were reading this board?
 

Spot on ! - it's unlikely that HAL pays much attention (assuming they even view the CC boards) to a dozen or so incessant posters on CC. Hardly a cross-sectional sampling of their customer base.

[TiogaCruiser]

4 hours ago, Lido - Lanai said:

Spot on ! - it's unlikely that HAL pays much attention (assuming they even view the CC boards) to a dozen or so incessant posters on CC. Hardly a cross-sectional sampling of their customer base.

Pointing out that some of the most incessant (including one that has started many a thread) is a newcomer to the forum. 

[ontheweb]

13 hours ago, BarbarianPaul said:

Of course they took our input. Ok, have no idea if they follow these boards, but surely they pay attention to the passenger surveys given on every cruise, where we voice many of the same concerns expressed here. Who knows if it was a contributing factor or not, but I’d be very surprised if CCL didn’t keep tabs on what their customers are thinking.

They do read the surveys. On our last HAL cruise on one of their smaller, older ships, we were disappointed that there was not more ballroom dancing. After I let that be known on our survey, I received an e-mail thanking me for my input and telling me that there was more on their larger ships.

[taxmantoo]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

They do read the surveys. On our last HAL cruise on one of their smaller, older ships, we were disappointed that there was not more ballroom dancing. After I let that be known on our survey, I received an e-mail thanking me for my input and telling me that there was more on their larger ships.

And some people you talk to say there is more dancing on the smaller ships.  They can't all be right 🤔