Would you cruise if Wearing a mask is mandatory?

[CRUISEFAN0001]

1 hour ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

We have a restaurant here that now charges a $1 for plastic straw. 
 

 

WOW - charging it is ridiculous...charging $1 is insane.

[time4u2go]

30 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Walt Disney’s first vision of Epcot was a city under a dome. 

Also there was the TV series, Under the Dome.  They never did say what state it was in.  Now we know!

Edited June 1, 2020 by time4u2go

[hazence]

2 hours ago, time4u2go said:

You might want to take a look at this:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_George_Floyd_protests#South_Carolina

 

Charleston: The city issued a curfew after protests resulted in vandalism of public property and statues and some protesters threw rocks at police and citizens. Additionally, several businesses and restaurants had glass windows busted. Two men wearing MAGA hats were assaulted. At one point, police in riot gear used tear gas to stall protesters. Protesters halted traffic on Interstate-26.

Columbia: On May 30, 2020, protesters marched from the South Carolina Statehouse to the city of Columbia police station. Several businesses and restaurants in the nearby business district were vandalized. Mayor Stephen K. Benjamin announced a mandatory 6 p.m. curfew for the city. Four police officers were injured, one critically. Later that night shots were fired at police, and the shooters were arrested. The officers did not return fire. The follow day, a group of 200 protesters formed in Marion Square.

Greenville: On May 30, two protests were held at Peace Center and Falls Park. Not affiliated with Black Lives Matter, the first event was attended by Mayor Knox White. About 300 people marched at the second protest, some arrests were made.

Myrtle Beach: Dozens of protesters attended a rally downtown on the morning of May 31. Protesters initially blocked the entrance to the Myrtle Beach Police Station in what felt like a "standoff" but when officers joined in and the Chief addressed the crowd cheered. Mayor Brenda Bethune declared a civil emergency due to a "credible threat" against police related to the protest. A curfew was set to start at 7pm May 31.

 

I couldn’t read the Courier article because I use an ad blocker...but I did google enough to

concede that Charleston and especially Columbia did have violent incidents this weekend. So I concede that point,

 

But please read this from the BIG city closest to where I live. No, it was not perfect...but  read the details. There will be no devastation to come back from. Notice that after the worst of the nights confrontation...people were still lined up waiting “to get ina crowded bar.”

 

https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/2020/06/01/george-floyd-protest-greenville-sc-ends-tension-tear-gas-arrests/5305987002/

 

“At one point, protesters asked the police in the line to hold a "Black Lives Matter" sign. One did. Officer S.N. Bowdoin.

That led to a negotiation: The police had done the right thing, now it was time for the crowd to respect their presence.

After a time, a captain ordered his officers to disperse and toward Augusta Street. 

The protesters were allowed to walk wherever they wanted.

At the intersection of South Main and Augusta Street, the crowd stopped. Older protesters held younger ones back. The police had allowed the crowd to police itself.”

 

All day there was dialogue between the protestors and the police, At one point, the Sheriff took a knee as requested. 
 

When night came...there were only about 100 people remaining.

 

“For one hour, a half-block stretch between downtown Greenville's Washington Street and McBee Avenue served as a no-man's land — the unclaimed space in war that marks the distance between peace or violence.

 

On one end, a phalanx of riot police — fitted in masks and shields and a cache of weapons of dispersing — stood ready as more than 100 protesters demanded to be let by after they were stopped at a crosswalk by a human barrier of lightly fitted Greenville Police.

If they broke through, the shields and weapons awaited them.

 

For two days, Greenville had managed to control its chaos in a way its sister cities Columbia and Charleston had not in violent protests over the death of George Floyd under the knee of a Minneapolis police officer.

But by 10 p.m., six hours since one of the largest marches in Greenville's recent history began as a "Silent Sunday" protest, the riot squad thumped their shields and methodically advanced.“

 

So then the police reaction changed.

 

 

“Conflicts flared up on East Court Street and West Broad Street, but by 11 p.m., authorities declared downtown cleared, and the squad marched in a line paired in twos up Main Street.

By midnight, the streets were quiet.

The sheriff and police chief were standing on a Main Street corner talking with people.

A block away, a line of people waited to get inside a crowded bar.”

 

That is SC largest city..right here in the Deep South. All politics is local...and dealing with protests means locals confronting other locals. DeBlasio’s daughter was out with the rioting mob last night..the looters honoring a dead man by stealing Louis Vuitton handbags. 

Greenville’ s Sheriff took a knee but stood firm when the protest looked like it might morph to looting and rioting.
 

There is a march in our closest little town today at 4pm. There will be no trouble. Everyone knows everyone in that town. My hairdresser’s partner was murdered last year by her husband. At the church service, her sons replaced the last hymn with the Country Western song...”Go Back to your Trailer” annoyed that everyone knew their “business.” 🤔

 

They just elected their first Black mayor in the town’s history. He loves that town and is loved by all. 

 

[goldfish65]

Charleston and Columbia are the largest cities by population in SC.

[LMaxwell]

I put "Unsure".

 

I personally don't have a problem donning a mask in public spaces, but many around me seem unwilling to do the same. Not being able to trust people around me to act decently will do more to deter me from going to crowded areas than the requirements of being in that area.

 

I saw NCL's "Plan" today and its a step in the right direction but doesn't mention masks whatsoever.

 

I'll have to see what the all encompassing changes are to the cruise experience before I put any more money on the line. 

Although, I will say this; I will never book an interior or oceanview again.  Balcony or not going. 

Edited June 1, 2020 by LMaxwell

[Biker19]

40 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

Although, I will say this; I will never book an interior or oceanview again. 

Great, that means if many others feel the same way the prices will trend down on those categories, right?

 

Biker, who doubts that will happen.

[harkinmr]

44 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

I put "Unsure".

 

I personally don't have a problem donning a mask in public spaces, but many around me seem unwilling to do the same. Not being able to trust people around me to act decently will do more to deter me from going to crowded areas than the requirements of being in that area.

 

I saw NCL's "Plan" today and its a step in the right direction but doesn't mention masks whatsoever.

 

I'll have to see what the all encompassing changes are to the cruise experience before I put any more money on the line. 

Although, I will say this; I will never book an interior or oceanview again.  Balcony or not going. 

I saw NCL's plan today too.  Way too general.  Where are the specifics and detail?  Specifics are certainly going to be required by the CDC, and honestly by cruisers like me.  

Edited June 1, 2020 by harkinmr

[OceanCruise]

This is from the WHO today:

"Non-medical or cloth masks could increase potential for COVID-19 to infect a person if the mask is contaminated by dirty hands and touched often, or kept on other parts of the face or head and then placed back over the mouth and nose" 

AND

"Currently there is not enough evidence for or against the use of masks (medical or other) for healthy individuals in the wider community."

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/question-and-answers-hub/q-a-detail/q-a-on-covid-19-and-masks

 

[Georgia_Peaches]

1 minute ago, harkinmr said:

I think they should be embarrassed putting out such a wishy-washy plan.  It's almost like they're not taking this seriously. 

Naw, I think they are taking it seriously.  My guess is that once all of the details have been put through the smell test at the CDC, a comprehensive publication will be released that all lines will be required to follow when in US ports.  There may be additional measures that some lines will implement, but the minimum guidelines will be approved by the CDC and will become industry wide requirements.  I think NCL's rush to publish some safety measures is just their way of staying in cruise news.

[molly361]

I can see staggered check in times for those driving but how does that work if someone is flying the day of and/or staying in a hotel?  They have to stay at the hotel and/or airport until their designated time??

[LMaxwell]

13 minutes ago, OceanCruise said:

"Currently there is not enough evidence for or against the use of masks (medical or other) for healthy individuals in the wider community."

That does nothing to address the potential of being an asymptomatic carrier. I may appear perfectly healthy and pass a temperature screening, yet have COVID-19 and bring it aboard.

The mask I wear in the super market isn't so much to protect me. It is to protect you. The masks other people wear are so that they are trying to protect those that are around them. Unless and until people accept that and go along, I have reservations about entering into public crowded areas.

 

I do not believe anything about the cruise experience is conducive to social distancing, unfortunately. And I have doubts that when left to self-regulate that the cruise lines will hold themselves, and more importantly, their guests, to any sort of rigorous standard. If someone doesn't want to wash hands or take temperature and barrels past some smiling Filipino's, everyone else will follow their example. 

My concerns are less with the cruise lines and more with people and their behaviors. Thank you for sharing your post. 

[LMaxwell]

6 minutes ago, molly361 said:

I can see staggered check in times for those driving but how does that work if someone is flying the day of and/or staying in a hotel?  They have to stay at the hotel and/or airport until their designated time??

Nah, there will be a priority program for a fee I am sure.  Faster to the Fun style. 

 

But I don't foresee cruises disembarking by 10AM and reboarding at 1030AM.  I could easily foresee as I posted many weeks back that boarding day lunch is done with; the ship won't start boarding until 3 or 4 PM after it has had more time for sanitizing crews to get through all the public spaces, as well as a chance to sanitize terminals between departing and arriving guests. 

The hotel industry will have to adapt to the way people are going to need their services in the future.  Perhaps staggered check in and check outs at hotels become a new normal. Or the purchase of a 1/4 day additional to leave by 2pm from a hotel becomes a normalized add on? 

Edited June 1, 2020 by LMaxwell

[npcl]

13 hours ago, cqpate said:

still no deal, false protection. 'everybody wear a mask' assumes the asymptomatic is cranking out bigger droplet particles. i can't guarantee i will only breathe/talk/sneeze out droplet sizes as i wear a cheap mask. this test was aerosol size blowing thru the filter. aerosol size punch right thru, float in the room for hours and get sucked thru the next mask.  people can feel good about wearing a cheap mask but size gets in the way. since you cant see the size of particles,N(IOSH)95 is near guaranteed safety. i might try 2 cruises in next several months but I will cancel if forced into a palliative policy. i didnt fear going on the 'poop ship triumph' after it was cleaned up(no problems). wear a mask if you want but go big, n95. now you are protected from my droplets and aeosols in your lungs. since this thing mostly hits the old and immune compromised with few 'previously healthy' deaths, im willing to take my chances and keep life normal. 

NIOSH article...the most recent randomized controlled study⁵¹ combined with evidence of moderate filter efficiency and complete lack of facepiece fit lead us to conclude that surgical masks offer very low levels of protection for the wearer from aerosol inhalation. There may be some protection from droplets and liquids propelled directly onto the mask, but a faceshield would be a better choice if this is a concern. 

It is the velocity, more than the size of particles.  Slow down the air flow coming out and the particles disperse prior to reaching and infecting others. Plenty of research papers, including video analysis, of both large and small particles exits.  With masks far fewer reach another person standing a few feet away.

 

Again the purpose is not the wearing it is to reduce spread from the potentially infected individual.

 

With over 50% of those infected are asymptomatic the question becomes have you accidently killed someone today.  You may be healthy, but other may not be.

 

 

 

This video from a research institute in Singapore demonstrates how it helps

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLsGJHRGB_s

 

A couple of other articles.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/19/coronavirus-wearing-a-mask-can-reduce-transmission-by-75percent-new-study-claims.html

 

Wearing surgical masks in public could help slow COVID-19 pandemic's advance

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/04/200403132345.htm

 

The study was conducted at the University of Hong Kong as part of the dissertation research of the lead author, Dr. Nancy Leung, who, under the supervision of the co-senior authors Drs. Cowling and Milton, recruited 246 people with suspected respiratory viral infections. Milton's Gesundheit machine compared how much virus they exhaled with and without a surgical mask.

"In 111 people infected by either coronavirus, influenza virus or rhinovirus, masks reduced detectable virus in respiratory droplets and aerosols for seasonal coronaviruses, and in respiratory droplets for influenza virus," Leung said. "In contrast, masks did not reduce the emission of rhinoviruses."

Although the experiment took place before the current pandemic, COVID-19 and seasonal coronaviruses are closely related and may be of similar particle size. The report's other senior author, Professor Benjamin Cowling, division head of epidemiology and biostatistics, School of Public Health, HKUMed, and co-director of the World Health Organization Collaborating Centre for Infectious Disease Epidemiology and Control, said, "The ability of surgical masks to reduce seasonal coronavirus in respiratory droplets and aerosols implies that such masks can contribute to slowing the spread of (COVID-19) when worn by infected people."

 

This is a very good video covering mask use and why they should be used.  Very good summary in plan terms.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P27HRClMf2U

 

Edited June 1, 2020 by npcl

[npcl]

1 hour ago, LMaxwell said:

I put "Unsure".

 

I personally don't have a problem donning a mask in public spaces, but many around me seem unwilling to do the same. Not being able to trust people around me to act decently will do more to deter me from going to crowded areas than the requirements of being in that area.

 

I saw NCL's "Plan" today and its a step in the right direction but doesn't mention masks whatsoever.

 

I'll have to see what the all encompassing changes are to the cruise experience before I put any more money on the line. 

Although, I will say this; I will never book an interior or oceanview again.  Balcony or not going. 

The ironic thing is that the degree of uncertainty about people not wearing mask means that many people will stay home that otherwise would go out and spend.  The uncertainly will delay the recovery.

[hazence]

In two weeks, we will definitely have some answers. We are, unfortunately, running a nationwide study as we speak.
 

If we do not have major spikes in these cities that are experiencing mass protesting....then we can be assured that young people, at the least,  can safely congregate in large numbers in churches, workplaces, and cruise ships once again.

 

Has there been any comment from Dr Fauci this weekend?  Are the media not talking about COVID anymore? Has their fear subsided?

[LMaxwell]

7 minutes ago, npcl said:

The ironic thing is that the degree of uncertainty about people not wearing mask means that many people will stay home that otherwise would go out and spend.  The uncertainly will delay the recovery.

 

Uncertainty abounds on many fronts. There is the virus. There is job uncertainty causing reductions to discretionary spending in my household as well.  With 40M unemployed, it may not matter what they have to wear on a cruise if they can't spend for it. 

[KsucAts]

17 minutes ago, hazence said:

In two weeks, we will definitely have some answers. We are, unfortunately, running a nationwide study as we speak.
 

If we do not have major spikes in these cities that are experiencing mass protesting....then we can be assured that young people, at the least,  can safely congregate in large numbers in churches, workplaces, and cruise ships once again.

 

Has there been any comment from Dr Fauci this weekend?  Are the media not talking about COVID anymore? Has their fear subsided?

 

And what about everybody saying that the crowds over Memorial weekend in places like the Ozarks were going to cause huge spikes?  So far, I have only seen one reported case of somebody who partied at the Ozarks.  I know the media is busy on another topic right now, but enough of them would jump right back into covering covid if there was a spike caused by those crowds.  We are getting close to 10 days now from those crowds, so I say chances are pretty good that there will be nothing coming from it.  

[hazence]

2 minutes ago, KsucAts said:

 

And what about everybody saying that the crowds over Memorial weekend in places like the Ozarks were going to cause huge spikes?  So far, I have only seen one reported case of somebody who partied at the Ozarks.  I know the media is busy on another topic right now, but enough of them would jump right back into covering covid if there was a spike caused by those crowds.  We are getting close to 10 days now from those crowds, so I say chances are pretty good that there will be nothing coming from it.  

 

It does make one wonder. And how quickly the high anxiety and foreboding dread of the MSM about following social distancing or (OH GOD!) killing Grandma...has...just disappeared. 

[OceanCruise]

1 hour ago, npcl said:

It is the velocity, more than the size of particles.  Slow down the air flow coming out and the particles disperse prior to reaching and infecting others. Plenty of research papers, including video analysis, of both large and small particles exits.  With masks far fewer reach another person standing a few feet away.

 

Again the purpose is not the wearing it is to reduce spread from the potentially infected individual.

 

With over 50% of those infected are asymptomatic the question becomes have you accidently killed someone today.  You may be healthy, but other may not be.

 

 

 

This video from a research institute in Singapore demonstrates how it helps

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLsGJHRGB_s

 

A couple of other articles.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/19/coronavirus-wearing-a-mask-can-reduce-transmission-by-75percent-new-study-claims.html

 

Wearing surgical masks in public could help slow COVID-19 pandemic's advance

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/04/200403132345.htm

 

The study was conducted at the University of Hong Kong as part of the dissertation research of the lead author, Dr. Nancy Leung, who, under the supervision of the co-senior authors Drs. Cowling and Milton, recruited 246 people with suspected respiratory viral infections. Milton's Gesundheit machine compared how much virus they exhaled with and without a surgical mask.

"In 111 people infected by either coronavirus, influenza virus or rhinovirus, masks reduced detectable virus in respiratory droplets and aerosols for seasonal coronaviruses, and in respiratory droplets for influenza virus," Leung said. "In contrast, masks did not reduce the emission of rhinoviruses."

Although the experiment took place before the current pandemic, COVID-19 and seasonal coronaviruses are closely related and may be of similar particle size. The report's other senior author, Professor Benjamin Cowling, division head of epidemiology and biostatistics, School of Public Health, HKUMed, and co-director of the World Health Organization Collaborating Centre for Infectious Disease Epidemiology and Control, said, "The ability of surgical masks to reduce seasonal coronavirus in respiratory droplets and aerosols implies that such masks can contribute to slowing the spread of (COVID-19) when worn by infected people."

 

This is a very good video covering mask use and why they should be used.  Very good summary in plan terms.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P27HRClMf2U

 

The CNBC study you cited was done on hamsters. 

 

From New England Journal of Medicine 5/21/20:

"We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection....In many cases, the desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic.    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372

 

This study in Respiratory Medicine 5/13/20  tried to determine if there was infectivity of asymptomatic carriers who had contact with 455 people. "No severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infections was detected in 455 contacts by nucleic acid test".

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32405162/?fbclid=IwAR2q2NxWgFpKPLjqd-vKY7meWJ-pgGHb-CITNM8WoZ8lg8Ftc7dE1hN5iGU

[hazence]

“Nursing home officials had determined that her mother was now close enough to death to allow her to visit for one hour each day. Mastromano drove straight over. She put on a gown, gloves and a mask. A nurse's aide escorted her into her mother’s room.

“Mom, it's me,” she said. “They let me come.”

Her mother didn’t look like she did a month earlier. She was thinner and pale. She was on her side, breathing heavily and moaning. Mastromano noticed a new lump on her neck. She didn’t seem fully conscious.

Mastromano wished she could have been there during those last few weeks. How many nights had her mom screamed herself to sleep? Did she understand why her daughter had stopped coming? Was she scared?“

Remember stories like this...this woman didn’t even have COVID and loved ones unable to visit a dying family member to say goodbye. That wasn’t important enough to let you mask up and say your last goodbye.

 

But now...it’s okay to be out in a huge crowd out on the street...well, just as long as it’s not a beach.

Edited June 1, 2020 by hazence

[OceanCruise]

7 minutes ago, hazence said:

 

But now...it’s okay to be out in a huge crowd out on the street...well, just as long as it’s not a beach.

Or a church

[npcl]

1 hour ago, KsucAts said:

 

And what about everybody saying that the crowds over Memorial weekend in places like the Ozarks were going to cause huge spikes?  So far, I have only seen one reported case of somebody who partied at the Ozarks.  I know the media is busy on another topic right now, but enough of them would jump right back into covering covid if there was a spike caused by those crowds.  We are getting close to 10 days now from those crowds, so I say chances are pretty good that there will be nothing coming from it.  

Give it time.  It has only been a week.  Median time to develop symptoms 5 days, then decision to test, getting test results.  A few cycles.  Look again in 1-2 weeks from now for early indicators if there was an issue.

 

The only reason the one case was in the news was because it confirmed that there was at least 1 infectious person at the event so other participants should keep a look out for symptoms.

Edited June 1, 2020 by npcl

[gatortrue]

I voted yes, but I would not want to anywhere outside.  I want to enjoy fresh ocean air.

Is everyone booked on a cruise? 

[deliver42]

We are booked on 3. Celebrity, MSC, and Royal in that order, starting in March,2021. All new ships, and hopefully they will all be ready.

[TheJuryIsStillOut]