Silversea refund processing time

[Observer]

2 minutes ago, Stumblefoot said:

 

Same here.

 

The email we received indicated we should receive the credit to our card sometime between Aug 31 and Sep 10.  2-weeks past Sep 10 at this point.  Haven't complained yet.

 

The delay could be with your credit card company.  I had three refunds for the same cancellation.  I used various credit cards from different companies.  There was a ~ 10 day difference between the refund appearing on my first credit card and on the third.

[Stumblefoot]

1 minute ago, Observer said:

The delay could be with your credit card company.  

Could be!  Who knows?  Hence, why I haven't complained, yet.  Card company is AMEX.  

[TLCOhio]

10 minutes ago, Stumblefoot said:

Could be!  Who knows?  Hence, why I haven't complained, yet.  Card company is AMEX.  

 

Part of the "game" is to always to point fingers at others and . . . blame someone else.  Right or wrong??  Back in late April when we were waiting and waiting for our refund credit back from Silversea, the cruise line tried to blame it on the banks and say that our money was already in their hands.  

 

BUT, in checking more, including with my experienced Congressman who is on the U.S. House Financial Service Committee and has been in the banking business himself, he was clear.  Federal law mandates that the credit card companies are required to post any and all refunds within 24 hours of them receiving that money back from the merchant.  Or else the bank is in big trouble with the government officials and violating Federal law!!  For those in the U.S., do not believe the "shell game" if they try to claim it is the bank's fault.  

 

That's U.S. law.  Cannot speak to the legal standards for the UK, Australia, etc.  

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

From late 2018, see “Holy Lands, Egypt, Jordan, Oman, Dubai, Greece, etc.”, with many visuals, details and ideas for the historic and scenic Middle East. Now at 18,795 views.  Connect at:

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2607054-livenautica-greece-holy-lands-egypt-dubai-terrypix’s/

[Observer]

 

43 minutes ago, TLCOhio said:

 

Part of the "game" is to always to point fingers at others and . . . blame someone else.  Right or wrong??  Back in late April when we were waiting and waiting for our refund credit back from Silversea, the cruise line tried to blame it on the banks and say that our money was already in their hands.  

 

BUT, in checking more, including with my experienced Congressman who is on the U.S. House Financial Service Committee and has been in the banking business himself, he was clear.  Federal law mandates that the credit card companies are required to post any and all refunds within 24 hours of them receiving that money back from the merchant.  Or else the bank is in big trouble with the government officials and violating Federal law!!  For those in the U.S., do not believe the "shell game" if they try to claim it is the bank's fault.  

 

 

I am very impressed by your access to your Congressman and his willingness to offer personal advice to you on this matter.  I assume he cited the relevant law to you?  It would be helpful if you would share that information.

 

It appears that my personal experience in two of my three refunds (from three different US credit card issuers) suggests that the banks are in "big trouble" for not having posted the credits within 24 hours.  One did.  Two did not.  Here is the transaction with a five day delay.  The third was twice as long as that but I cannot copy the document without sharing personal info.

 

I fear that I may be getting the banks into "big trouble" for "violating Federal law!!" 

 

Thanks for alerting us to this sinister "shell game" apparently being perpetrated by SS and other cruise lines.

CREDIT CARD (...5937) −$XXXX.00

Return Jul 16, 2020 Transaction date Jul 21, 2020 Posted date SILVERSEA CRUISES (800) 722-9955

Description Also known as Method Card number Category SILVERSEA CRUISES LTD SILVERSEA CRUISES Online, mail or phone (...5937) Travel

Edited September 24, 2020 by Observer

[TLCOhio]

2 hours ago, Observer said:

I am very impressed by your access to your Congressman and his willingness to offer personal advice to you on this matter.  I assume he cited the relevant law to you?  It would be helpful if you would share that information.

 

 

Appreciate the good follow-up from the savvy Observer.  At that time, I did not need and/or ask for the specific Federal statute number when discussing the subject with my Congressman.  This afternoon after seeing your note, I put a call into his office for that added detail.  My guess, based on past experiences is that it is more than just one specific statute number of only two or three sentences.  

 

Generally, there is a statute section (or two or three), plus added legal specifics that were adopted in later agency rules and regulations as published in the Federal Register.  Maybe, even added rules/regs by the Federal Reserve as they have certain authority over financial transactions and institutions.  Complicated!  Not always quick and simple.  BUT, I am 100% confident that the credit card companies and banks have clear standards to which they must be accountable.  Not true for cruise lines and other businesses.    

 

Will share more as I get added info/details.  Good luck to all working to get that money back in your accounts.  

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Completed last summer Calgary, Jasper/Banff National Parks, Western Canada Rocky Mountaineer rail adventure, Vancouver, sailing up to Alaska, post-cruise excursion to Denali, etc.  Many visuals and details from our first in these scenic areas!  Live/blog at: 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2682584-live-terryohio-silver-muse-alaska-canadarockies-pix’s/

[alexandria]

I believe that the staff member in your congressional office is mistaken.  12 CFR § 1026.12(e) reads as follows:

 

Prompt notification of returns and crediting of refunds.

(1) When a creditor other than the card issuer accepts the return of property or forgives a debt for services that is to be reflected as a credit to the consumer's credit card account, that creditor shall, within 7 business days from accepting the return or forgiving the debt, transmit a credit statement to the card issuer through the card issuer's normal channels for credit statements.

(2) The card issuer shall, within 3 business days from receipt of a credit statement, credit the consumer's account with the amount of the refund.

(3) If a creditor other than a card issuer routinely gives cash refunds to consumers paying in cash, the creditor shall also give credit or cash refunds to consumers using credit cards, unless it discloses at the time the transaction is consummated that credit or cash refunds for returns are not given. This section does not require refunds for returns nor does it prohibit refunds in kind.

 

So the entire refund transaction to a credit card is required by US law to be completed within ten (10) business days.  The creditor (retailer, vendor, company) must transmit the credit statement to the credit card issuer within seven (7) business days and then the credit card issuer must credit the customer's account within three (3) business days of receipt of that credit statement.

 

[Silver Spectre]

The refund request confirmation yesterday estimates a return to credit card of between 35 and 45 days. We will see what happens.

[Elginjock]

Refund received on Amex Card took 41 days after contacting Silversea London office.

[Caroldoll]

I don't know exactly what you are saying,.  I cancelled a paid in full cruise and waited 30 days, but I did not get a refund, so I filed a dispute with Amex.  They said we have to start all over.  It has now been closer to two weeks and I don't have a refund from Silverseas.  However, I did get a credit (provisional) on my Amex.  There is no reason for the cruise line to be holding this up as it is still well over a year until the cruise.  I am more than a little nervous as Regent was much more prompt.  I have been strongly affected by the fires and my husband's cancer.  Having this to worry about is more than I can handle.  

[jollyjones]

I cancelled three cruises in July and was notified 5th August that the refunds had been processed and should be back in my account between 9th and 19th September.

The money actually arrived 23rd September.

(and the latest hurricane may have caused a slight delay at my bank)

These are the latest of the six cruises I have cancelled and each time I have received my refunds more or less when they said they'd come.

In the current financial situation, I think this is actually pretty well done. 

 

Edited September 26, 2020 by jollyjones

[Roger88]

Refund process is one of the most annoying things I have ever experienced. Usually it take 3-4 weeks, in case of Pandemic 2-3 months.. I heard of some lucky ones who got it the first week they applied but I think it was a lucky coincidence 

[MrsWaldo]

7 hours ago, Caroldoll said:

I don't know exactly what you are saying,.  I cancelled a paid in full cruise and waited 30 days, but I did not get a refund, so I filed a dispute with Amex.  They said we have to start all over.  It has now been closer to two weeks and I don't have a refund from Silverseas.  However, I did get a credit (provisional) on my Amex.  There is no reason for the cruise line to be holding this up as it is still well over a year until the cruise.  I am more than a little nervous as Regent was much more prompt.  I have been strongly affected by the fires and my husband's cancer.  Having this to worry about is more than I can handle.  

When you action a dispute via your CC  it is a different process so effectively you reset the start date. There will automatically be to and fro between the 2 companies. It becomes a non standard process as legal action becomes more likely.  Having spoken with a legal person, dispute CC typically takes up to 40% longer than a standard refund.  You may have shot yourself in the foot time wise

 

 

[alexandria]

1 hour ago, MrsWaldo said:

When you action a dispute via your CC  it is a different process so effectively you reset the start date. There will automatically be to and fro between the 2 companies. It becomes a non standard process as legal action becomes more likely.  Having spoken with a legal person, dispute CC typically takes up to 40% longer than a standard refund.  You may have shot yourself in the foot time wise

 

 

 

I can't speak to the process "down under", but that is not the case in the US.  US law has certain requirements concerning timely submission of refunds by creditors and the crediting of the same by the credit card issuer, which I posted earlier in this thread.

 

AMEX requirements for merchant refunds of what they classify Advance Payment Charges (for which full payment is made in advance of the Merchant providing the goods and/or rendering services to a Cardmember) for certain types of goods and services, including travel-related services, are even more stringent.  Section 4.14 of their Merchant Operating Guide provides as follows:  "If you cannot deliver goods and/or services (e.g., because custom-ordered merchandise cannot be fulfilled), and if alternate arrangements cannot be made, you must immediately issue a Credit for the full amount of the Advance Payment Charge which cannot be fulfilled."  (AMEX Merchant Operating Guide attached)

 

So by delaying Caroldoll's refund in the manner reported, Silversea is violating both US law and the applicable provisions of the AMEX merchant policies.  When it receives the dispute from AMEX, Silversea has twenty days to respond either by establishing that the cardholder is not entitled to a refund OR by providing the refund.  So unless Silversea claims that Caroldoll is not entitled to a refund and provides evidence of such, Silversea will be required to provide the refund within the AMEX twenty day deadline, otherwise AMEX can end the dispute in Caroldoll's favor and make the credit permanent.

AMEX Merchant Operating Guide US.pdf

[scottjeanne]

I received my refund today, September 26.  It was requested August 14, so not quite six weeks.  Not bad considering.

[RJ2002]

3 hours ago, scottjeanne said:

I received my refund today, September 26.  It was requested August 14, so not quite six weeks.  Not bad considering.

 

We also received a refund today.  It was for our Silversea-cancelled March 2021 sailing on the Wind.  We requested the refund on July 30.  Our TA warned us it might be 90-120 days, so we were very pleasantly surprised to see the credit today - less than 60 days from the original request.

[tohru214]

I also received a refund today. Canceled on July 31st, so it took 8 weeks.

[Stumblefoot]

Ours came through today as well.

[MrsWaldo]

7 hours ago, alexandria said:

 

 

 

  "If you cannot deliver goods and/or services (e.g., because custom-ordered merchandise cannot be fulfilled), and if alternate arrangements cannot be made, you must immediately issue a Credit for the full amount of the Advance Payment Charge which cannot be fulfilled."  (AMEX Merchant Operating Guide attached)

 

 

AMEX Merchant Operating Guide US.pdf 15.11 MB · 1 download

Ahhh, but the services can be provided....  this is not a cruise which has already been cancelled

[Silver Spectre]

2 hours ago, Stumblefoot said:

Ours came through today as well.

Great news!

[alexandria]

9 minutes ago, MrsWaldo said:

Ahhh, but the services can be provided....  this is not a cruise which has already been cancelled

 

Good point.  If the passenger cancels their booking and the cruise line agrees to provide a refund then both the AMEX merchant operating guide and applicable law in the US requires that the credit be transmitted by the cruise line to the credit card issuer within seven (7) days (calendar days for AMEX, business days under US law).  So the difference is when the passenger cancels, AMEX allows the cruise line seven days to refund vs. immediately.

 

The twenty (20) day timeline still applies to the AMEX dispute...Silversea must either provide evidence that the passenger is not entitled to a refund OR provide the refund within that time period or AMEX can resolve the dispute in favor of the customer and make the credit permanent. 

 

So in either case, if Silversea promised a refund, there should be no additional delay for Caroldoll by filing a dispute.  Thanks for the opportunity to clarify my earlier reply.

 

 

[MrsWaldo]

18 hours ago, Caroldoll said:

 It has now been closer to two weeks 

 

 

So,  the refund is still within timeline.....  in my calculations closer to 2 weeks is less than 20 days..  It may well be that the dispute has also called into question the $200 cancellation fee that is due to SS even if carolldoll has not intended this.

 

So before we attack SS about their handling,  let's wait until the 20 days for disputed returns hits!   

 

The 45 days from cancellation may have  passed and in taking action 50 days would now be the outer limit..

Edited September 26, 2020 by MrsWaldo

[Silver Spectre]

9 minutes ago, MrsWaldo said:

 

 

 

 

So before we attack SS about their handling,  let's wait until the 20 days for disputed returns hits!   

 

The 45 days from cancellation may have  passed and in taking action 50 days would now be the outer limit..

And Stumblefoot waiting 70+ days?

[MrsWaldo]

2 minutes ago, Silver Spectre said:

And Stumblefoot waiting 70+ days?

I totally agree the refund time frames  for SS cancelled cruises has been unacceptable.

 

 However, in this case, it is the passenger who has cancelled for reasons of their own and whilst I understand their need for the cash and that the timing has not been ideal, at this point there is nothing that SS have done that is at fault.

[Silver Spectre]

23 minutes ago, MrsWaldo said:

I totally agree the refund time frames  for SS cancelled cruises has been unacceptable.

 

 However, in this case, it is the passenger who has cancelled for reasons of their own and whilst I understand their need for the cash and that the timing has not been ideal, at this point there is nothing that SS have done that is at fault.

Under UK ATOL rules a refund should be made within 14 days, not 60+. So just what are SS doing that is NOT at fault?

[MrsWaldo]

10 minutes ago, Silver Spectre said:

Under UK ATOL rules a refund should be made within 14 days, not 60+. So just what are SS doing that is NOT at fault?

I think we are arguing at odds..

 

I am referring to one poster, in the US, not the general refund situation.  I suspect there may be more to the carolldoll situation than meets the eye.