Restarting will be harder for HAL than other lines, writer argues

[Dr.Dobro]

Why Holland America was right to shed 29% of its fleet -- and may need to cut more

[kazu]

Interesting point of view from “the Points Guy” but his supposition that people will only want 3, 4 or 5 day cruises is off base, I think.  I don’t think he has quite connected with what the HAL market wants or likes.

 

Most HAL cruisers I have met aren’t interested in a cruise like that.  Many are itinerary driven and prefer at least a 7 day cruise if not a longer one.

 

Of course, this is just my opinion and experience.  

 

I don’t think anyone can predict what the future holds but I, for one, will cruise again when the time is right and it certainly won’t be on some “mini” cruise.  It’s not worth the time or expense to get to the port for us.

 

 

[ernieb]

I agree with Jacque. I hope HAL will be back for our B2Bs out of San Diego beginning 4-10-21.

[Vict0riann]

Haha!  I thought the premise was going to be that HAL was going to have a harder time getting back to "normal" because the passengers were commonly of a more "senior" age group.  But no, it's because of the itineraries.  I can understand that, too.  There will be many countries that don't want us back.  Even here in Canada, our pastor, here in Victoria, is returning to his home in Newfoundland for the summer, and he is going to have to self-isolate for two weeks. A  lot of countries are thinking that way, too.

[cruisemom42]

I think he is right on a lot of fronts. HAL isn't designed for a post-COVID market where 3-5 day cruises to nowhere are the starting point. HAL's niche is more about longer cruises and about destinations.

 

Jacqui, I don't think he is disagreeing with your assertion that the typical HAL customer doesn't want those short cruises.

 

But he takes it further and says that HAL isn't really a strong competitor in the  short-cruise market (3-5 days -- is that even a cruise???) when, to quote the article, "sailings often are more about the ship than the destination, and many of the people who gravitate to them are looking for a big, bustling mega-resort-type vessel with lots of things to do. On many short itineraries, “the ship is the destination,” as they say."

 

And yes, he does bring in the age factor toward the end of the article as well.

 

Does anyone really consider a 7 night cruise long??  

 

[cwtravel]

Seems quite accurate, in my opinion. HAL does have more long (14 nights or more) sailings that are not back to back than many other lines and the average age is higher than many other lines. 

 

I do think 5-7 night cruises from Ft. Lauderdale to Half Moon Cay, Grand Turk, Amber Cove and Mahogany Run could appeal some people, if priced correctly.

[rafinmd]

I think HAL has one real short term possibility they are well positioned for.  They are in a perfect position to be one of the first to offer cruises within the EU, possibly even cruises to nowhere from Amsterdam and Rotterdam.

 

Roy

[iancal]

I think HAL's demographic will work against them.  I suspect that older persons will be less inclined to cruise and I believe that generally fewer people will be much less inclined towards world cruises. 

 

People not in the best the best of health or those who could not or would not fly had issues in returning home from stranded ships.  This will not be lost on some otherwise potential customers.

 

It will be interesting to see that the fate of Zaandam and Volendam.  Will they remain in the fleet, be sold, be scrapped?  Early days yet.  Covid has a long way to go and cruise lines do not have an infinite amount of resources to ride this out and to finance a start up that will probably be punctuated with attractively low fares to get the punters back on board.

 

We have absolutely no intention of sailing unless a vaccine or effective script is available.  The notion of sailing on an MS Covid does not turn our gears.  Three days, five days, or fourteen days.

Edited July 19, 2020 by iancal

[oaktreerb]

I think HAL will do just fine next year.  They have a strong following for cruises in Alaska and a very organized land component in the Pacific Northwest and the Yukon.  As long as Vancouver opens up HAL will be ok.   Too bad they seem to have given up on the 14 day with the Maasdam and the Amsterdam being sold.  I don’t know if there is another HAL ship that can sail into the port of Anchorage.

 

I see an earlier and slow return to the Caribbean and Mexico where 7 day cruises are common and people can drive to the cruise ports.   If they could require a Covid-19 test with a 24 hour turnaround negative result before boarding it would help.  I’d sail out of San Diego for the Mexican Riviera.  I might not get off the ship, though, without a vaccine.

 

 

[YXU AC*SE]

3 hours ago, iancal said:

It will be interesting to see that the fate of Zaandam and Volendam. 

 

Volendam?   https://www.qpsships.com/copy-of-s2376-1    Scott. 

Edited July 19, 2020 by YXU AC*SE

[KirkNC]

I think the article raises some legitimate issues.  I don’t see HAL surviving if they have to rely on short cruises to the Carribean or Alaska.  If that’s what they get reduced to, they might as well fold them into Princess.  

[bouhunter]

4 hours ago, kazu said:

Interesting point of view from “the Points Guy” but his supposition that people will only want 3, 4 or 5 day cruises is off base, I think.  I don’t think he has quite connected with what the HAL market wants or likes.

 

Most HAL cruisers I have met aren’t interested in a cruise like that.  Many are itinerary driven and prefer at least a 7 day cruise if not a longer one.

 

Of course, this is just my opinion and experience.  

 

I don’t think anyone can predict what the future holds but I, for one, will cruise again when the time is right and it certainly won’t be on some “mini” cruise.  It’s not worth the time or expense to get to the port for us.

 

 

Actually he said the cruise lines will want to do shorter routes, and HAL passengers likely want longer ones.

[Mandalay1903]

5 hours ago, kazu said:

Most HAL cruisers I have met aren’t interested in a cruise like that.  Many are itinerary driven and prefer at least a 7 day cruise if not a longer one.

I agree with these points, and I understand that they're different than the Points Guy's points...especially for the longer term Mariners.  As for me, I've reached my limit on Alaska cruises, Mexican Riviera, and Caribbean. I'd take a couple of the shorter HAL Canada cruises but after that I need the longer, much more varied itineraries. I'm looking for cruises that can take me to places that are more difficult to manage independently (the two Westerdam China/Taiwan/Japan cruises cancelled on me this March are great examples). I'm a fan of HAL because of the variety in their itineraries and the consistent quality in their product throughout the world. Until they're back with the great itineraries, I'll be taking more overseas land trips by car to cover the areas the cruise ships can't.

 

HAL will probably have a slower restart, but meantime I'll be looking to travel independently when the other countries will have us and our borders reopen.

[rkacruiser]

I agree that the article raises good points.  I am thinking that all of the North American based cruise lines are going to need to start out with "baby steps" in order to attract guests of any previous cruise experience.  Long cruises, yes, they do those mostly well most of the time.  Realistic in 2020 and 2021, I suspect, I'd be surprised.  

 

If the path needs to start with "baby steps" for short cruises is what is chosen, how for HAL to differentiate with other cruise lines will be the marketing issue.  

[TiogaCruiser]

8 hours ago, oaktreerb said:

I think HAL will do just fine next year.  They have a strong following for cruises in Alaska and a very organized land component in the Pacific Northwest and the Yukon.  As long as Vancouver opens up HAL will be ok.   Too bad they seem to have given up on the 14 day with the Maasdam and the Amsterdam being sold.  I don’t know if there is another HAL ship that can sail into the port of Anchorage.

 

Amsterdam did it in 2010 and for several years after that. Sisters Zaandam and Volendam should be able to also.

[oaktreerb]

7 minutes ago, TiogaCruiser said:

Amsterdam did it in 2010 and for several years after that. Sisters Zaandam and Volendam should be able to also.

I hope so.  It’s my favorite itinerary in Alaska.

[chengkp75]

15 hours ago, rafinmd said:

I think HAL has one real short term possibility they are well positioned for.  They are in a perfect position to be one of the first to offer cruises within the EU, possibly even cruises to nowhere from Amsterdam and Rotterdam.

 

Roy

Yes, much like Aida and Costa, with HAL being flagged by an EU member nation, they can restart in the EU "travel bubble".

[Happily@Sea]

18 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Does anyone really consider a 7 night cruise long??  

 

 No, not by any stretch. I always try to pair it with another and will usually look for 14-16 day itinerates. 10 day is my usual minimum. It's not the travel to get there either. It's only a very comfortable 1/2 day train ride to Ft Lauderdale.

 

I hate packing and unpacking. 😄 I hope I can get back on a ship when they start again. We'll see.

 

[Tampa Girl]

19 hours ago, oaktreerb said:

I think HAL will do just fine next year.  They have a strong following for cruises in Alaska and a very organized land component in the Pacific Northwest and the Yukon.  As long as Vancouver opens up HAL will be ok.   Too bad they seem to have given up on the 14 day with the Maasdam and the Amsterdam being sold.  I don’t know if there is another HAL ship that can sail into the port of Anchorage.

 

I see an earlier and slow return to the Caribbean and Mexico where 7 day cruises are common and people can drive to the cruise ports.   If they could require a Covid-19 test with a 24 hour turnaround negative result before boarding it would help.  I’d sail out of San Diego for the Mexican Riviera.  I might not get off the ship, though, without a vaccine.

 

 

 

If you would  not get off the ship, why get on?  You will be housed with hundred of other passengers, all of whom will also not be vaccinated.  

[oaktreerb]

36 minutes ago, Tampa Girl said:

 

If you would  not get off the ship, why get on?  You will be housed with hundred of other passengers, all of whom will also not be vaccinated.  

Because the passengers would have tested negative within 24 hours prior to boarding.  HAL would have to also make sure the staff has been tested in the same way.  I’m ready for a change.  I could get off the ship for a scenic walk but only wearing a mask and of course social distancing.  Even a vaccine is not 100% effective.  

 

People are being cleared with a negative covid19 test 72  hours prior to flying to Alaska for fishing trips.  

Edited July 20, 2020 by oaktreerb

[Himself]

I can remember the days when HAL sent one ship to Europe, one stayed in the Carribean, one did Eastern Canada between Boston and Montreal and the rest hit Alaska.  I could see that happening next summer. I do not see one staying in the Caribbean. I could see six or seven doing Alaska out of Seattle and Vanvouver and possibly San Fran.

[Tampa Girl]

4 hours ago, oaktreerb said:

Because the passengers would have tested negative within 24 hours prior to boarding.  HAL would have to also make sure the staff has been tested in the same way.  I’m ready for a change.  I could get off the ship for a scenic walk but only wearing a mask and of course social distancing.  Even a vaccine is not 100% effective.  

 

People are being cleared with a negative covid19 test 72  hours prior to flying to Alaska for fishing trips.  

 

Yes, but a negative test one day does not guarantee that it will be negative 48 hours later.  Ironically, you are concerned about the ports, but the ports are more concerned about us, and rightly so.  

[TiogaCruiser]

41 minutes ago, Tampa Girl said:

 

Yes, but a negative test one day does not guarantee that it will be negative 48 hours later.  Ironically, you are concerned about the ports, but the ports are more concerned about us, and rightly so.  

Exactly.

The test is a single point in time which allows  plenty of opportunity for the “negative” person to become infectious and symptomatic afterward. Remember, the incubation period is 14 days for this little beast.

 

Adding: I cannot believe the number of individuals I have interviewed recently that thought their close contacts were “okay “ and no longer needed to quarantine (complete the 14 days) because they had a negative test. 
And we wonder why we are having such a covid problem here...

Edited July 20, 2020 by TiogaCruiser

[oaktreerb]

If it makes you feel any better I don’t intend to cruise until there is a vaccine but I have an Alaska cruise booked for August 2021.

We have been masking and social distancing and being good citizens since March and I really would like to be able to sit on the veranda of my Neptune Suite and sail away to see the wonders of nature.

15 minutes ago, TiogaCruiser said:

Exactly.

The test is a single point in time which allows  plenty of opportunity for the “negative” person to become infectious and symptomatic afterward. Remember, the incubation period is 14 days for this little beast.

 

Adding: I cannot believe the number of individuals I have interviewed recently that thought their close contacts were “okay “ and no longer needed to quarantine (complete the 14 days) because they had a negative test. 
And we wonder why we are having such a covid problem here...

 

[chipmaster]

No cruiseline is safe, nobody can predict anything, the developed world wants its cake and eat it to, they can't

 

It's a virus and lives by biological rules, and cares little for politics, social, , cultural, economic, , religious.   What is clear all of the world has made compromises among them.

 

The whole leisure, travel, cruiseline will be very very different for the next year and half, likely for the next 1/2 decade.

 

Maybe when I retire in about a decade things will settle down and I can take the around the world flight as well as cruises, but I'd not try and predict anything for 2021 for anything.