If Royal Requires A Covid-19 Vaccine Before Cruising Will You Get It???

[BND]

3 minutes ago, HBE4 said:

 

I just love the old "they were going to die anyways" argument. 

 

The same can be said of someone that dies of a heroin overdose. The difference is that person choose to shoot up heroin knowing the risk. Nobody chooses to die of/with Covid. 

I don't think anyone chooses to die of cancer or heart disease either..    

[BND]

9 minutes ago, UnorigionalName said:

 

????

 

I've seen a lot of covid deniers repeat this line and I don't understand it.

 

The R0 for flu is like 1.5.  The R0 for COVID is probably like >6.

 

So some people are wearing masks and social distancing.  But not enough.  So lets say enough are wearing masks and social distancing to halve the rate of infections.

 

So the R0 for flu will become 0.75, so below one, so it basically doesn't propagate, where COVID will still be at like 3, where it will still explode. 

 

So the fact that there is no flu this year shows that masks and social distancing work.  Science works.

 

It is only at the rate of slowing down COVID, because COVID IS A TON MORE CONTAGIOUS THAN THE FLU.

 

This is not some "i-gotcha" point.  This is poor understanding of math and science.

 Hardly a Covid denier here, but thanks for labeling me.

 

What she said was contradictory.  Here, let me explain:  Hey, no one's wearing masks or washing their hands and that's why numbers are so high for Covid and then in the same segment says  hey, the flu rate is non-existent because people are wearing masks and washing their hands.  Got it?

Edited January 19, 2021 by BND

[ALSEAU]

On 1/15/2021 at 7:30 PM, time4u2go said:

It's such a shame that the U. S. has about 4% of the world's population while having about 20% of the world's covid-related deaths. 

 

This percentage assumes that the world's covid-related deaths are being accurately reported by all the world's governments. 

[BND]

1 minute ago, ALSEAU said:

 

This percentage assumes that the world's covid-related deaths are being accurately reported by all the world's governments. 

This.  If anyone believes that China or N. Korea has accurately reported anything, I've got a bridge for you.

[Pratique]

23 minutes ago, UnorigionalName said:

It is only at the rate of slowing down COVID, because COVID IS A TON MORE CONTAGIOUS THAN THE FLU.

Also the number of asymptomatic flu carriers is lower than the number of asymptomatic covid carriers. Most people who have the flu are sick and aren't mingling with others.

[HBE4]

3 hours ago, yogimax said:

To be fair, people need to understand the protecting the health of Americans and reopening businesses are not exclusive to one another.  They both can take place when done wisely.  

 

It is not an ether/or situation.  The solution lies is making decisions based on wisdom and not political rhetoric.

 

I totally agree.  Unfortunately,  i know some very smart people whose better judgment gets clouded by their political dogma. 

 

[BND]

1 minute ago, Pratique said:

Also the number of asymptomatic flu carriers is lower than the number of asymptomatic covid carriers. Most people who have the flu are sick and aren't mingling with others.

I know more than a few people who have gone to work sick with the flu.  And, a lot of these are people with sick leave available.  

[BND]

7 minutes ago, HBE4 said:

 

I totally agree.  Unfortunately,  i know some very smart people whose better judgment gets clouded by their political dogma. 

 

I know quite a few people who aren't entirely convinced about what is being reported, but they still follow the rules and wear their masks and wash their hands.  They can disagree and still respect the rules.  In fact, we've been going to church and eating out this entire time (also went to the beach for vacation twice) and I have yet to see anyone refusing to wear a mask.  It does happen, but it's just not as common as the news would like you to think.   And, the number of people who you are talking about isn't as big as some want you to think.   

Edited January 19, 2021 by BND

[Pratique]

Just now, BND said:

I know more than a few people who have gone to work sick with the flu.  And, a lot of these are people with sick leave available.  

This is why the flu spreads as much it does. We don't quarantine people for the flu. But if you're sick you're less likely to interact with others than if you have no symptoms.

[Pratique]

2 minutes ago, BND said:

I know quite a few people who aren't entirely convinced about what is being reported, but they still follow the rules and wear their masks and wash their hands.  They can disagree and still respect the rules.  In fact, we've been going to church and eating out this entire time (also went to the beach for vacation twice) and I have yet to see anyone refusing to wear a mask.  It does happen, but it's just not as common as the news would like you to think.   And, the number of people who you are talking about isn't as big as some want you to think.  

We all have anecdotal evidence. My wife works at a busy supermarket and she has at least one customer every day who refuses to wear a mask or wear it properly as they roam the aisles.

[BND]

Just now, Pratique said:

We all have anecdotal evidence. My wife works at a busy supermarket and she has at least one customer every day who refuses to wear a mask or wear it properly as they roam the aisles.

For a lot, wearing it improperly isn't a refusal, but usually it's because it's slipped and they didn't notice.  There's a difference between not wearing one or wearing it improperly and absolutely refusing to and not complying when asked.  I bet if asked, most of those people would wear it.

[BND]

4 minutes ago, Pratique said:

This is why the flu spreads as much it does. We don't quarantine people for the flu. But if you're sick you're less likely to interact with others than if you have no symptoms.

My only point was that people sick with the flu don't always stay home.

[Pratique]

8 minutes ago, BND said:

For a lot, wearing it improperly isn't a refusal, but usually it's because it's slipped and they didn't notice.  There's a difference between not wearing one or wearing it improperly and absolutely refusing to and not complying when asked.  I bet if asked, most of those people would wear it.

You would be wrong. My wife routinely asks her customers to put on the mask and most of them outright refuse, or if they do it's too late because they are checking out and have already walked the aisles without the mask. I have no doubt that there are dozens of people who enter that particular store every day without a mask. We are only witnessing a handful of them.

[UnorigionalName]

2 hours ago, BND said:

 Hardly a Covid denier here, but thanks for labeling me.

 

What she said was contradictory.  Here, let me explain:  Hey, no one's wearing masks or washing their hands and that's why numbers are so high for Covid and then in the same segment says  hey, the flu rate is non-existent because people are wearing masks and washing their hands.  Got it?

 

It is not contradictory.  Stop making everything into absolutes. Masks are not absolute.  Once ___ people put on masks, a disease goes from normal to stops.  It obviously doesn't work that way. 

 

Some people are wearing masks and washing their hands and distancing, which is effective enough to really decrease flu cases, but not effective enough to decrease the much much more contagious COVID.  So if more people did the same, we could get COVID even lower.

 

How is that so hard to understand?  It seems so obvious to me it feels like people are trying to twist and find inconsistencies in statements where no inconsistency exists so they can justify their pre-determined skepticism.

[BND]

6 minutes ago, UnorigionalName said:

 

It is not contradictory.  Stop making everything into absolutes. Masks are not absolute.  Once ___ people put on masks, a disease goes from normal to stops.  It obviously doesn't work that way. 

 

Some people are wearing masks and washing their hands and distancing, which is effective enough to really decrease flu cases, but not effective enough to decrease the much much more contagious COVID.  So if more people did the same, we could get COVID even lower.

 

How is that so hard to understand?  It seems so obvious to me it feels like people are trying to twist and find inconsistencies in statements where no inconsistency exists so they can justify their pre-determined skepticism.

OMG.  You are very condescending.  What was said and how it was said came across as very contradictory.  Did you see the show?  How hard is it to understand I wasn't making a political statement or one that says masks do or don't work or anything of the kind?  I was just stating what they said and how it SOUNDED.   What "skepticism" do you think I have?  You'd probably be very, very wrong.  

 

It seems to me that some people try to justify their superiority complexes by the need to lecture others.

[MommaBear55]

3 hours ago, exm said:

 

If you die from a shark attack, and you are COVID-positive, the hospital will report you as a COVID death (true story, heard from multiple friends that work in hospitals). The reason is simple: federal funding. Hospitals get money for any COVID patient they are treating dead or alive. So I believe the number is overcounted.

Odd that neither I nor any of my colleagues have experienced this. Perhaps my hospital system has better ethics. I know what I would do if asked and I hope your multiple friends have done this. First, I would refuse and then I would immediately call the Medicare fraud hotline. 

[BND]

1 hour ago, Pratique said:

You would be wrong. My wife routinely asks her customers to put on the mask and most of them outright refuse, or if they do it's too late because they are checking out and have already walked the aisles without the mask. I have no doubt that there are dozens of people who enter that particular store every day without a mask. We are only witnessing a handful of them.

As I've been told when I express my experiences, your wife's experience is anecdotal.    Regardless, the vast majority of people are following the rules and I see it everywhere I go, even where they don't need to like while driving their car or walking in the neighborhood.

[UnorigionalName]

7 minutes ago, BND said:

OMG.  You are very condescending.  What was said and how it was said came across as very contradictory.  Did you see the show?  How hard is it to understand I wasn't making a political statement or one that says masks do or don't work or anything of the kind?  I was just stating what they said and how it SOUNDED.   What "skepticism" do you think I have?  You'd probably be very, very wrong.  

 

It seems to me that some people try to justify their superiority complexes by the need to lecture others.

Right, so if you can't win by facts, it's time to go with the personal ad hominem attacks.

 

Again, how exactly is it contradictory? it makes perfect sense to me.  You agree that masks and hand washing work? and that they dramatically reduced the amount of flu? and slowed but not stopped the spread of COVID? 

 

I actually don't know exactly what skepticism you have, because it all makes sense to me.  I really don't understand how you have problems with it.

 

So we are now all in agreement yes?

[John&LaLa]

3 hours ago, UnorigionalName said:

 

Why does your belief count more than data?  It's your belief because you desperately want it to be true, so you don't have to be wrong.  And people take being wrong as physically painful.

 

The number of COVID positive people who died from shark attacks is less than the number of people who died at home without a COVID test.

 

ALL data points to COVID deaths being UNDERCOUNTED.  Basically, explain to me the excess deaths in 2020.  If you say the undercounted theory is wrong, how do you explain the data away?

 

No matter how much your psyche desires yourself to be correct, you can't desire away the data.  Take a good introspection, look at the data even if it is physically painful, and explain it to me.

 

Glad to be reading your opinions again.

[CaroleSS]

2 hours ago, Pratique said:

You would be wrong. My wife routinely asks her customers to put on the mask and most of them outright refuse, or if they do it's too late because they are checking out and have already walked the aisles without the mask. I have no doubt that there are dozens of people who enter that particular store every day without a mask. We are only witnessing a handful of them.

I would agree. I work in a major supermarket and many people do not wear the masks properly. When I ask them to pull the mask over their nose, they say "if I do that then I can't breath". They wear the mask, but it does nothing to prevent the spread. I will say that the biggest offenders fall into one of two groups: the construction workers who come in to buy lunch (and I seriously doubt they have a "medical condition") or snowbirds who came here and somehow feel that they don't HAVE to wear one any more. Our "locals" are very compliant (and there are some snowbirds who good...so not saying they ALL are).

 

The point being that even with a mask mandate, people aren't wearing them properly or not at all. This means that each of us has to watch out for ourselves and family as we certainly can't trust each to do it for us.

[billf0401]

Totally on board with getting and proving a vaccine....On the Other Hand we will not go on a cruise if we are required to wear a mask....that would not be at all enjoyable for us....We really want to go but I doubt that any cruises for at least the next year will be without a mask requirement....We will just have to be satisfied with land travel I expect...

[yogimax]

3 hours ago, BND said:

For a lot, wearing it improperly isn't a refusal, but usually it's because it's slipped and they didn't notice. 

 

Hmm... I notice right away if my mask slips down and my nose is sticking out.  

[Pratique]

50 minutes ago, CaroleSS said:

I would agree. I work in a major supermarket and many people do not wear the masks properly. When I ask them to pull the mask over their nose, they say "if I do that then I can't breath". They wear the mask, but it does nothing to prevent the spread. I will say that the biggest offenders fall into one of two groups: the construction workers who come in to buy lunch (and I seriously doubt they have a "medical condition") or snowbirds who came here and somehow feel that they don't HAVE to wear one any more. Our "locals" are very compliant (and there are some snowbirds who good...so not saying they ALL are).

 

The point being that even with a mask mandate, people aren't wearing them properly or not at all. This means that each of us has to watch out for ourselves and family as we certainly can't trust each to do it for us.

The supermarkets near me stopped enforcing the reduced occupancy limits. When there was someone at the door letting people in, the mask compliance rate was essentially 100%. Now people get away with wearing them under their chins because the rules are not being enforced. Everyone is weary of confrontation so they get away with it.

[CaroleSS]

14 minutes ago, Pratique said:

The supermarkets near me stopped enforcing the reduced occupancy limits. 

Money talks!

[John&LaLa]

32 minutes ago, Pratique said:

The supermarkets near me stopped enforcing the reduced occupancy limits. When there was someone at the door letting people in, the mask compliance rate was essentially 100%. Now people get away with wearing them under their chins because the rules are not being enforced. Everyone is weary of confrontation so they get away with it.

 

The WalMarts here still have some one counting on a laptop. No idea what they are counting