More ships to leave Carnival Fleet.

[lindylooellalouise]

1 hour ago, Host Sharon said:

I probably shouldn't admit it here but I am a total convert to Saga. The new ships are beautiful, a perfect size (betwen Artemis & Oriana) and I love the different itineraries as these are my primary decision when booking. For example, on a Baltic cruise 2022 there is an overnight in Stockholm and a call at Kemi in Finland. The cruises are all-inclusive now and post Covid, private car transport. Yes - they look expensive upfront but once you have costed in the balcony grade (they are all-balcony ships), free wi-fi, all drinks, free ice cream available all day, no gratuities and now some excursions, they start to look good value.

Hi Sharon just received 2022 brochure from Saga and some of their cruises look amazing we can’t decide which one to choose and unfortunately they are  not open over the weekend Looks like Cunard and P& O our favourite cruise lines are going to miss out on our bookings  for 2022. We have had 7 cruises with Cunard and P&O cancelled this year and 1 next year.

[Son of Anarchy]

1 hour ago, wowzz said:

John, I know that you and your wife have specific requirements. For us, an overnight stay means we can explore more, and hopefully take in a theatre or opera/ballet during the evening, or at the very least have an evening meal ashore.

The "vibe'" in port at night when the other ships have departed is totally different.

Illustrates one of the few down sides to cruising, the local night life.

 

We love cruising, but it is nice to experience the local area at night, rather than in the cruise ship bubble from time to time, especially in a country where you may not have visited on a land holiday.

 

On cruises we've had overnight stays in Acapulco, Barbados, Istanbul, Madeira, Malaga and Tenerife (unplanned).  Unfortunately in Acapulco we were so tired from the flight, that all we were able to do so was have a meal and have some drinks on the open decks taking  in the night views.  Istanbul is a fantastic place for an overnight on a cruise ship.

[wowzz]

1 hour ago, lindylooellalouise said:

Hi Sharon just received 2022 brochure from Saga and some of their cruises look amazing we can’t decide which one to choose and unfortunately they are  not open over the weekend Looks like Cunard and P& O our favourite cruise lines are going to miss out on our bookings  for 2022. We have had 7 cruises with Cunard and P&O cancelled this year and 1 next year.

Just a thought - why can you not book online? We booked online yesterday- a much easier process than with P&O,  with all the available cabins in each price bracket shown, so very easy to use.

[lindylooellalouise]

we are not very computer savvy but will definitely have a go 🤞🏻

[Captain_Morgan]

19 hours ago, molecrochip said:

I suggested these two, Oceana’s sister would be off a couple of the months ago. No one on the Princess board would believe me!

 

I'm surprised its taken them this long to move on those old tugs...as if Oceana was the 'youngest' of the bunch and she was in rough shape it goes without saying both Sun and Sea were worse off.  I recall sailing on Sea back in 2005 and it was tired back then so I can only imagine its not stood the test of time.  So there's one of the original 'Sun Class' left which is the former Dawn Princess currently sailing for P&O Australia as the Pacific Explorer

[jaydee6969]

Here is a list of 16 of the 18 Carnival group ships left/leaving.

 

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/23517-here-are-the-cruise-ships-carnival-is-selling.html

[showingdiva]

1 hour ago, jaydee6969 said:

Here is a list of 16 of the 18 Carnival group ships left/leaving.

 

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/23517-here-are-the-cruise-ships-carnival-is-selling.html

 

And Sea Princess makes No.17.

 

AIDAcara must be one in contention as No.18.

 

[molecrochip]

Except at certain times Carnival have said the two going to the Chinese JV weren’t included in that number.

[showingdiva]

16 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

Except at certain times Carnival have said the two going to the Chinese JV weren’t included in that number.

 

What sort of "interest" does Carnival have in this venture?

[molecrochip]

In summary

 

Costa Atlantica - sold to China JV, planned departure

Costa Mediterranea - sold to China JV, early departure

Pacific Aria - sold to CMV, early departure

Pacific Dawn - sold to CMV, early departure

Costa Victoria - sold for scrap

MV Oceana - sold to SeaJets in Greece

MS Maasdam - sold with MS Veendam to SeaJets company

MS Veendam - sold with MS Maasdam to SeaJets company
MS Amsterdam - sold with MS Rotterdam to Fred Olsen on credit

MS Rotterdam - sold with MS Amsterdam to Fred Olsen on credit

Carnival Fantasy - sold for recycling in Turkey

Carnival Inspiration - sold for recycling in Turkey

Costa neoRomantica - sold to Celestyal Cruises

Carnival Fascination - sold for recycling in Turkey
Carnival Imagination - sold for recycling in Turkey

Sun Princess - sold to Peace Boat

Sea Princess - leaving fleet tba

[showingdiva]

And Pacific Princess, who as someone said above, has been for sale for ages.  They must be secretly hoping either Regent Seven Seas or Azamara want her as they have the rest of the old Renaissance fleet between them.

[Captain_Morgan]

Or P&O Australia shift their last remaining Sun Class ship and continue to focus on the big ship market as they appear to be doing with the acquisition of Golden and Star Princess

[molecrochip]

2 hours ago, showingdiva said:

And Pacific Princess, who as someone said above, has been for sale for ages.  They must be secretly hoping either Regent Seven Seas or Azamara want her as they have the rest of the old Renaissance fleet between them.

 

1 hour ago, Captain_Morgan said:

Or P&O Australia shift their last remaining Sun Class ship and continue to focus on the big ship market as they appear to be doing with the acquisition of Golden and Star Princess

Either of these would make sense.

 

Frankly, I could still see more going if there are buyers. It would create a need for new ships in 2025-2030 as capacity grows again

[majortom10]

I think in current times even though Carnival might not be intending to sell certain ships if a buyer knocks on the door and offers a good price then do not think they are going to say no.

[showingdiva]

51 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

 

Either of these would make sense.

 

Frankly, I could still see more going if there are buyers. It would create a need for new ships in 2025-2030 as capacity grows again

 

I still think there's at least one, maybe two AIDA ships that could be under scrutiny, especially with the new AIDAcosma due at some point next year (maybe).

 

[wowzz]

1 hour ago, majortom10 said:

a buyer knocks on the door and offers a good price then do not think they are going to say no.

In the current environment,  I'm not sure that there will be any buyers around. 

Anyone care to speculate as to who will want to buy a 20 year old uneconomic cruise ship, requiring expensive frequent dry docking?

I bet Fred only paid slight over the scrap value for the two H&A ships,  as no one else would have wanted them. Fred will get the money back as the fares charged for future cruises will be 50% higher than H&A could ever achieve.

[DS_Dean]

I cannot fathom this either, and yet organisations like SeaJets are happy to pick up three ships (2x HAL and 1x Sun class). Peace Boat also picked up a Sun class, and Sea Princess has buyer unconfirmed. So there are buyers out there. But surely these must be real rock bottom prices. 

[Chrisdriving]

Indeed in some ways its a buyers market as prices would be cheap if sellers are desperate to offload.

[AndyMichelle]

7 hours ago, wowzz said:

In the current environment,  I'm not sure that there will be any buyers around. 

Anyone care to speculate as to who will want to buy a 20 year old uneconomic cruise ship, requiring expensive frequent dry docking?

I bet Fred only paid slight over the scrap value for the two H&A ships,  as no one else would have wanted them. Fred will get the money back as the fares charged for future cruises will be 50% higher than H&A could ever achieve.

Are you arguing with yourself again Wowzz.. 😊

You say there are no buyers, but then explain why Fred would want them? This basic economics also applies to the others that have purchased numerous ships recently. 

Scrap value is fine for the seller as they are costing fortunes to keep at the moment, so you sell for x amount and save x amount in maintenance etc while no ships are sailing. 

The buyer gets a bargain and is willing and financially able to play the long game. 

Win win.. 

Andy 

Edited September 20, 2020 by AndyMichelle

[wowzz]

2 hours ago, AndyMichelle said:

Are you arguing with yourself again Wowzz.. 😊

You say there are no buyers, but then explain why Fred would want them? This basic economics also applies to the others that have purchased numerous ships recently. 

Scrap value is fine for the seller as they are costing fortunes to keep at the moment, so you sell for x amount and save x amount in maintenance etc while no ships are sailing. 

The buyer gets a bargain and is willing and financially able to play the long game. 

Win win.. 

Andy 

Yes, I did sort of contradict myself!

I suppose that what I should have said is that there must be a limit as to how many buyers there can be, for the older ships.

 

[Captain_Morgan]

10 hours ago, wowzz said:

I bet Fred only paid slight over the scrap value for the two H&A ships,  as no one else would have wanted them. Fred will get the money back as the fares charged for future cruises will be 50% higher than H&A could ever achieve.

 

Fred has been threatening to build new ships for many years now despite only ever buying second-hand tonnage so I suppose one could argue this opportunity fell into their/his lap and was too good to pass up especially as you say the price would no doubt have been rock bottom.

 

As for what's next for the Corporation it does seem strange that AIDA is the only brand to date which hasn't cut loose at least one of their least efficient ships as I'm sure they've got at least one or two that have seen better days.

[Host Sharon]

8 minutes ago, Captain_Morgan said:

 

Fred has been threatening to build new ships for many years now despite only ever buying second-hand tonnage so I suppose one could argue this opportunity fell into their/his lap and was too good to pass up especially as you say the price would no doubt have been rock bottom.

 

As for what's next for the Corporation it does seem strange that AIDA is the only brand to date which hasn't cut loose at least one of their least efficient ships as I'm sure they've got at least one or two that have seen better days.

Not just rock bottom but I understand Carnival offered them an interst free mortgage/loan to take them.

[Host Sharon]

23 hours ago, lindylooellalouise said:

Hi Sharon just received 2022 brochure from Saga and some of their cruises look amazing we can’t decide which one to choose and unfortunately they are  not open over the weekend Looks like Cunard and P& O our favourite cruise lines are going to miss out on our bookings  for 2022. We have had 7 cruises with Cunard and P&O cancelled this year and 1 next year.

You can book them through some TAs but just be aware if you use a TA you cannot then book excursions or complete any info online yourself. Everything has to go through the TA so it is easier to book direct. Also with Saga, if the prices later drop for your grade of cabin, you will get OBC to compensate - like the US lines do.

[lindylooellalouise]

Hi Sharon  Thanks for the advice tried to book online yesterday but prices more expensive than the brochure we received on Saturday morning so we phoned only to find out they are closed till Monday so hopefully we will be able to book then, we have had some really bad experiences with TA so very reluctant to book any cruises through them in the future.

[Captain_Morgan]

9 minutes ago, Host Sharon said:

Not just rock bottom but I understand Carnival offered them an interst free mortgage/loan to take them.

 

Suppose you could call that a 'gentlemen's agreement' where both sides benefit in their own way without 'losing' as I can't see Fred being cashed up under the current climate and offloading of old tonnage gives Carnival Corp. some much needed breathing room.  Question now is what happens to the ships sent to CMV...