More ships to leave Carnival Fleet.

[Host Sharon]

11 hours ago, Saab4444 said:

The remaining four Fantasy Class ships from Carnival, Volendam and Zaandam from HAL and AidaCara will have to leave before Aurora, all are much older. 

Plus Pacific Princess which they have been trying to offload for years.

[terrierjohn]

14 hours ago, Saab4444 said:

The remaining four Fantasy Class ships from Carnival, Volendam and Zaandam from HAL and AidaCara will have to leave before Aurora, all are much older. 

If Carnival are looking at profitability, then it's their accountants who will make the final decision.

However both Aurora and Arcadia have much higher pppn prices than their bigger sisters  so even though smaller and overall less profitable, they may be spared, and of course Fred's current pricing is also much higher even than P&O, so there is a bit more headroom for P&O to hike their prices a bit more.

[Adawn47]

18 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

If Carnival are looking at profitability, then it's their accountants who will make the final decision.

However both Aurora and Arcadia have much higher pppn prices than their bigger sisters  so even though smaller and overall less profitable, they may be spared, and of course Fred's current pricing is also much higher even than P&O, so there is a bit more headroom for P&O to hike their prices a bit more.

P&O's prices are eye-wateringly high enough now. I could see a time when they might overprice themselves out of the market. 

Avril

[grapau27]

35 minutes ago, Adawn47 said:

P&O's prices are eye-wateringly high enough now. I could see a time when they might overprice themselves out of the market. 

Avril

If capacity is cut for social distancing they have the perfect excuse to hike their prices.

[terrierjohn]

46 minutes ago, Adawn47 said:

P&O's prices are eye-wateringly high enough now. I could see a time when they might overprice themselves out of the market. 

Avril

Avril, have you looked at Fred's prices for their 2 new ships? I have not done a direct comparison with any of the P&O tiddlers pricing, but their balcony prices are more than double what we normally pay for a P&O big ship cruise.

[AnnieC]

13 minutes ago, grapau27 said:

If capacity is cut for social distancing they have the perfect excuse to hike their prices.

And we have the perfect excuse not to pay them.🙂

[Adawn47]

1 hour ago, terrierjohn said:

Avril, have you looked at Fred's prices for their 2 new ships? I have not done a direct comparison with any of the P&O tiddlers pricing, but their balcony prices are more than double what we normally pay for a P&O big ship cruise.

No, I haven't looked John, but I will. I understand though that Fred's prices are always higher at launch. 

Avril

[grapau27]

1 hour ago, AnnieC said:

And we have the perfect excuse not to pay them.🙂

Exactly.

[Britboys]

7 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

Avril, have you looked at Fred's prices for their 2 new ships? I have not done a direct comparison with any of the P&O tiddlers pricing, but their balcony prices are more than double what we normally pay for a P&O big ship cruise.

 

But it's a comparison between apples and pears John. Sailing on smaller ships will always be much more expensive than the new big ones. Fred Olsen ships carry 900 (Braemar) and under 1300 (the other 3), with consequently far fewer balconies. P&O's take more than 1800, 2000, 3100, 3600 & 5200. Arcadia has almost as many balcony cabins as the total number of cabins on each of Fred Olsen's largest ships - and that is the two that have only just joined the fleet.

 

For those that enjoy the big-ship experience, it is a no-brainer to choose a large ship with P&O. For those of us that prefer the small-ship experience, we have to accept that either we pay more for that or compromise and sail on a big ship. We all have to balance and choose what is best for us.

 

6 hours ago, Adawn47 said:

No, I haven't looked John, but I will. I understand though that Fred's prices are always higher at launch. 

Avril

 

Yes, that is generally true Avril. The launch prices are "Freedom Fares" and often include gratuities and some obc. Later they offer "Anchor Fares", which are similar to P&Os Saver Fares but one little difference is that for a small nightly supplement you can guarantee your dining arrangements - as in early or late sitting. Like all cruise lines, they have various marketing ploys with different offers.

[Captain_Morgan]

Hopefully this will ease the minds of some worried that P&O is planning on continuing their downsizing...

 

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/23509-peace-boat-to-modernize-cruise-fleet-with-newer-ship.html

[terrierjohn]

2 hours ago, Britboys said:

 

But it's a comparison between apples and pears John. Sailing on smaller ships will always be much more expensive than the new big ones. Fred Olsen ships carry 900 (Braemar) and under 1300 (the other 3), with consequently far fewer balconies. P&O's take more than 1800, 2000, 3100, 3600 & 5200. Arcadia has almost as many balcony cabins as the total number of cabins on each of Fred Olsen's largest ships - and that is the two that have only just joined the fleet.

 

 

My point was related to P&O's tiddlers pricing potential vs Fred Olsen, where the size is rather similar, and therefore would appeal to similar tastes.

I fully realise that Iona and her other sisters are a totally different kettle of fish, and price wise I hope they will remain much lower than the tiddlers, since they are the ships we prefer due to their superior accessible cabins and better suitability for wheelchairs.

[wowzz]

I've been looking at the Saga launch prices for 2022. Taking into account the extras they offer,  they seem much better value than Fred. I do appreciate that Fred  offer some interesting itineraries,  but, at present, we still have not fully experienced the traditional routes. 

Saga are obviously not as cheap as P&O, but Lady W and I have decided that from now on, after the events of this year, that we'd rather cruise less often in a smaller ship, than vice versa.

It's obviously difficult to compare Saga 2022 prices to P&O 2021 prices,  but a down and dirty comparison on a Ventura 21 cruise to St Petersburg versus a similar Saga 22 cruise ,  in a balcony cabin, gives almost identical prices. Then of course you have free drinks, free transport to the port, free speciality dining etc on Saga,  and suddenly P&O seems expensive.

It cannot be easy for anyone involved in revenue management in P&O at the moment. The loss of their smaller ships has seen them having to try and keep their traditional customers, whilst no longer being able to offer a bespoke cruising experience. 

I'm going to book the Saga cruise to St Petersburg in September 22 tomorrow, at launch price. Even if P&O match the price with a Ventura sailing in 2022, I can't see any reason not to sail with Saga, given the smaller ship size.

So, am I wrong,  or should I stick with P&O? 

[terrierjohn]

1 minute ago, wowzz said:

I've been looking at the Saga launch prices for 2022. Taking into account the extras they offer,  they seem much better value than Fred. I do appreciate that Fred  offer some interesting itineraries,  but, at present, we still have not fully experienced the traditional routes. 

Saga are obviously not as cheap as P&O, but Lady W and I have decided that from now on, after the events of this year, that we'd rather cruise less often in a smaller ship, than vice versa.

It's obviously difficult to compare Saga 2022 prices to P&O 2021 prices,  but a down and dirty comparison on a Ventura 21 cruise to St Petersburg versus a similar Saga 22 cruise ,  in a balcony cabin, gives almost identical prices. Then of course you have free drinks, free transport to the port, free speciality dining etc on Saga,  and suddenly P&O seems expensive.

It cannot be easy for anyone involved in revenue management in P&O at the moment. The loss of their smaller ships has seen them having to try and keep their traditional customers, whilst no longer being able to offer a bespoke cruising experience. 

I'm going to book the Saga cruise to St Petersburg in September 22 tomorrow, at launch price. Even if P&O match the price with a Ventura sailing in 2022, I can't see any reason not to sail with Saga, given the smaller ship size.

So, am I wrong,  or should I stick with P&O? 

I had similar thoughts when I looked at the launch prices for Spirit's cruises, but I still hope that P&O launch prices for 2022 will be more competitive, but Saga are now tempting.

[wowzz]

22 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

I had similar thoughts when I looked at the launch prices for Spirit's cruises, but I still hope that P&O launch prices for 2022 will be more competitive, but Saga are now tempting.

It's a difficult equation.

 It will cost us around £250 to drive to Southampton,  which includes overnight stay, fuel and parking. Saga pick us up from home.  We like a few drinks,  so no cost with Saga. No extra charge for room service or speciality dining with Saga.   We always have a balcony, so not interested in a price comparison with an interior cabin on P&O.  

I know that none of the Saga "extras" are free, because you pay for them in the price. But, if you add those extras on to the P&O base price,  the difference in fares is not that great. 

So, all else being equal, do you prefer to sail on a 999 pax ship or a 3500 pax ship? No right or wrong answer, but I know my preference.

[showingdiva]

1 hour ago, wowzz said:

It's a difficult equation.

 It will cost us around £250 to drive to Southampton,  which includes overnight stay, fuel and parking. Saga pick us up from home.  We like a few drinks,  so no cost with Saga. No extra charge for room service or speciality dining with Saga.   We always have a balcony, so not interested in a price comparison with an interior cabin on P&O.  

I know that none of the Saga "extras" are free, because you pay for them in the price. But, if you add those extras on to the P&O base price,  the difference in fares is not that great. 

So, all else being equal, do you prefer to sail on a 999 pax ship or a 3500 pax ship? No right or wrong answer, but I know my preference.

 

I've not cruised as a Saga passenger, however, I have both welcomed their ships and been on board their fleet for the last 7 years with our port hospitality team (up to last year - the new ship was supposed to be here this year, but that obviously hasn't happened) .  We've always found Saga ships have lovely, engaging passengers who have been keen to say what a lovely cruise they are having and very friendly crew.

[pete14]

9 hours ago, wowzz said:

I've been looking at the Saga launch prices for 2022. Taking into account the extras they offer,  they seem much better value than Fred. I do appreciate that Fred  offer some interesting itineraries,  but, at present, we still have not fully experienced the traditional routes. 

Saga are obviously not as cheap as P&O, but Lady W and I have decided that from now on, after the events of this year, that we'd rather cruise less often in a smaller ship, than vice versa.

It's obviously difficult to compare Saga 2022 prices to P&O 2021 prices,  but a down and dirty comparison on a Ventura 21 cruise to St Petersburg versus a similar Saga 22 cruise ,  in a balcony cabin, gives almost identical prices. Then of course you have free drinks, free transport to the port, free speciality dining etc on Saga,  and suddenly P&O seems expensive.

It cannot be easy for anyone involved in revenue management in P&O at the moment. The loss of their smaller ships has seen them having to try and keep their traditional customers, whilst no longer being able to offer a bespoke cruising experience. 

I'm going to book the Saga cruise to St Petersburg in September 22 tomorrow, at launch price. Even if P&O match the price with a Ventura sailing in 2022, I can't see any reason not to sail with Saga, given the smaller ship size.

So, am I wrong,  or should I stick with P&O? 

There is no right or wrong, just personal preference. I have also looked at Saga but with different cruise lines launching new itineraries at different times, it is difficult to get a true price comparison. As we know, launch prices start at the lower end and then increase. P&O prices are generally high at the moment, a likely combination of people having fcc for cancelled cruises and the historical increases we always see. It will be interesting to gauge how competitive P&O’s 2022 cruises will be at launch. The problem is, as we are still a few weeks away from finding out, the launch prices on the likes of Saga will have increased by the time we know about P&O.

[wowzz]

2 minutes ago, pete14 said:

There is no right or wrong, just personal preference. I have also looked at Saga but with different cruise lines launching new itineraries at different times, it is difficult to get a true price comparison. As we know, launch prices start at the lower end and then increase. P&O prices are generally high at the moment, a likely combination of people having fcc for cancelled cruises and the historical increases we always see. It will be interesting to gauge how competitive P&O’s 2022 cruises will be at launch. The problem is, as we are still a few weeks away from finding out, the launch prices on the likes of Saga will have increased by the time we know about P&O.

Yes, the late announcement of P&O 2022 cruises does make it difficult to make a decision now. However, the superior quality of Saga, plus the smaller ship size, makes their launch prices too good to miss.

[Saab4444]

Sun Princess is also leaving the Carnival fleet and goes to Peace Boat.

[Britboys]

12 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

My point was related to P&O's tiddlers pricing potential vs Fred Olsen, where the size is rather similar, and therefore would appeal to similar tastes.

I fully realise that Iona and her other sisters are a totally different kettle of fish, and price wise I hope they will remain much lower than the tiddlers, since they are the ships we prefer due to their superior accessible cabins and better suitability for wheelchair

But also, the comparison you made was with balcony cabins, which purely in terms of supply and demand will never really work across these two lines. P&O's smallest ship has 417 balcony cabins (including suites); Fred's largest ships have 172 (including suites). It may be that there is a similar pricing disparity for inside/outside cabins but again, Fred's largest ships carry 500-600 fewer pax and so it is only to be expected that prices will be higher.

Having said all of that, I do still agree that some of Fred Olsen's prices are eye-wateringly high in comparison to even P&O's smaller ships - especially for unusual or different itineraries.

[Britboys]

13 hours ago, wowzz said:

It's a difficult equation.

 It will cost us around £250 to drive to Southampton,  which includes overnight stay, fuel and parking. Saga pick us up from home.  We like a few drinks,  so no cost with Saga. No extra charge for room service or speciality dining with Saga.   We always have a balcony, so not interested in a price comparison with an interior cabin on P&O.  

I know that none of the Saga "extras" are free, because you pay for them in the price. But, if you add those extras on to the P&O base price,  the difference in fares is not that great. 

So, all else being equal, do you prefer to sail on a 999 pax ship or a 3500 pax ship? No right or wrong answer, but I know my preference.

If I were in the market for a balcony cabin, I wouldn't hesitate for a moment booking a Saga cruise on one of their fabulous new ships - but then I prefer smaller ships anyway...

I have a couple of FCC's in hand with P&O so in the meantime am hoping the Aurora and Arcadia fares for 2022 are not too high!

[Windsurfboy]

Saga prices are in line with seabourn, regent so you should compare their service with these lines not P&O. A 2 week cruise is 6k dearer with Saga, you'd be hard to spend that on p&O. HOWEVER the saga price could be money well spent if it's service is that of luxury lines

[wowzz]

4 hours ago, Windsurfboy said:

Saga prices are in line with seabourn, regent so you should compare their service with these lines not P&O. A 2 week cruise is 6k dearer with Saga, you'd be hard to spend that on p&O. HOWEVER the saga price could be money well spent if it's service is that of luxury lines

Sorry, I don't recognise your maths. I've just booked a 16 night Baltic cruise with Saga for just over £6k for two of us. Probably about £2k more than on P&O,  but obviously with far more extras included in the Saga fare.

As far as I can see, Seabourne and Regent are a step up in price compared to Saga.  Their prices are eye watering compared to Saga. 

[wowzz]

Just to add, I have just priced up a 14 night Baltic cruise on Ventura for September 2021. Comparable cabin to ours on Saga - cost is £5700 !

So our Saga 16 night cruise (albeit in 2022) with free transfers, free drinks and free speciality dining and room service, is only £500 more! And we are sailing on a much newer, more intimate ship.

I appreciate that P&O 2022 prices may be cheaper, but it does show that the price differential is not that much.

Edited September 17, 2020 by wowzz

[tring]

On 9/16/2020 at 11:52 PM, wowzz said:

It's a difficult equation.

 It will cost us around £250 to drive to Southampton,  which includes overnight stay, fuel and parking. Saga pick us up from home.  We like a few drinks,  so no cost with Saga. No extra charge for room service or speciality dining with Saga.   We always have a balcony, so not interested in a price comparison with an interior cabin on P&O.  

I know that none of the Saga "extras" are free, because you pay for them in the price. But, if you add those extras on to the P&O base price,  the difference in fares is not that great. 

So, all else being equal, do you prefer to sail on a 999 pax ship or a 3500 pax ship? No right or wrong answer, but I know my preference.

The longer transfers to the Saga ships is a shared transfer.  We would certainly have no interest in going round various places to pick other people up, presumably in mini buses.  We also have a 250 mile journey to Southampton and would much prefer to do that in our own car or a train the previous day and have a relaxing night in a hotel pre cruise.  Or better still sail from  port local to us.

 

Saga prices are incredibly high, always were for even inside cabins and the other perks have no interest to us.  Azamara are another matter though and we got a good deal with them last November - less than £200pppn for s balcony.

Edited September 17, 2020 by tring

[wowzz]

Shared transfer is for two couples,  so not exactly a minibus. 

Pricing is always relative. I don't think paying less than £200pppn for a balcony cabin on Saga is expensive for a 16 night cruise,  especially as we will not have a £800 bar bill at the end of it!